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General Vance - Inappropriate conduct?

daftandbarmy

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Yeah, it's a weird situation for sure. Do generals have the equivalent to a steward? (Which is also generally a bit of a weird thing as well when the Cmdre or someone comes on board with what seems like the duplicate for all of CJOC staff and a steward, not sure if that's even still a thing).

No, but some get 'drivers'.

 

MilEME09

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Anyone else think the timing of his retirement to this hitting the media seems convenient?
 

daftandbarmy

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They used to, apparently.​

"When did batmen fall out of use?"​

2 pages.

I never had a batman but I had a Pl Signaller. Thank Gawd.

If he was busy with Sigs stuff I'd be on the brew and scoff duties, and vice versa.

It was very much a 2 way street except, of course, he was always carrying a ruck that was about 20lbs heavier than my 80 pounder :)
 

Jarnhamar

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I'm not sure if I missed something, but other then being of a different rank, I didn't see anything that was inappropriate with the female officer, especially the relationship was private. To my knowledge there are no specific regulations prohibiting people of different ranks being in relationships.

I think you're technically right. But I think if you perused through DAOD 5019-1 & 7021-1 you might find some borderline violations as well.

I've seen some cpls in relationships with WOs and MWOs attempt to, and in some cases succeed to, throw around the weight of their relationships. It's awkward as hell, especially when leadership goes out of their way to turn a blind eye to it and JNCOs are the ones with the courage to say something.

Is a troop or young officer that a MGen or CDS dating or messing around with going to get preferential treatment? Absolutely. We've all seen how junior - mid level officers gush and trip and fall all over themselves when there's a high ranking officer visiting. No officer is going to play Russian roulette with their career by upsetting someone a general is dating.
 

mariomike

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No officer is going to play Russian roulette with their career by upsetting someone a general is dating.
I bet it's been that way since time immemorial.
 

FSTO

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Will this revelation do irreparable harm to the Operation Honour MO? Will the troops be tuning out senior officers speeches with the thought of "Screw them! They tell us not to be a POS but act like POS themselves."
 

mariomike

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"Do as I say, not as I do?"
 

Haggis

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Was the relationship deemed inappropriate by the reporting party:
  • because of the rank differential; or
  • because of the marital status of either participant; or
  • because of favouritism granted to or advantage gained by the lower ranking female officer; or
  • because a combination of the above?
Was the relationship deemed harmful as defined in DAODs?

Was the relationship deemed to pose a personal security risk to either party who might be compromised by a hostile intelligence service?
 

Jarnhamar

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Will the troops be tuning out senior officers speeches with the thought of "Screw them! They tell us not to be a POS but act like POS themselves."
Honestly that's about the spot I'm in now.



You can see what kind of guy General Vance is in response to corporals fending off drunken assaults from "VIPs" while the CF CWO and VCDS ignored it.

"The absence of appropriate training for VIP aircrew, combined with a perception of reality of being under scrutiny, left them with a lack of confidence and uncertainty in their authority to intervene and take control of any situation, including alcohol service aboard the flight,"
 
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dangerboy

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Honestly that's about the spot I'm in now.



You can see what kind of guy General Vance is in response to corporals fending off drunken assaults frim "VIPs" while the CF CWO and VCDS ignored it.

"The absence of appropriate training for VIP aircrew, combined with a perception of reality of being under scrutiny, left them with a lack of confidence and uncertainty in their authority to intervene and take control of any situation, including alcohol service aboard the flight,"
The "Party Flight" destroyed a lot of Operation Honour's credibility with serving members in the CAF, especially when the former CAFCWO got a job working at the military's Sexual Misconduct Response Team following the allegations about events that occurred on the flight.
 

PMedMoe

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Well this is why I follow the Billy Graham rule.
The Modesty Manifesto??

"The rule has been criticized for viewing women as potential objects of lust, as well as restricting opportunities for women to network with any male colleagues who happen to implement this rule. When applied to workplace dinners or meetings in the United States, it could result in illegal labor discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. American pastorTracey Bianchi says that one result is that "women are marginalized and cut out of opportunities to network, share their ideas, and advance in the organization." American pastor Ty Grigg says that the rule (assuming all American pastors implemented it) has not been "effective at curbing infidelity". He says that the rule "has framed relating with the opposite sex with fear", and that this leads to a diminished mutual respect, which in turn creates "the kind of environment where inappropriate relating is more likely to occur"."
 

TCM621

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Will this revelation do irreparable harm to the Operation Honour MO? Will the troops be tuning out senior officers speeches with the thought of "Screw them! They tell us not to be a POS but act like POS themselves."
People who knew Vance tuned it out almost immediately. His reputation in the Army was well established prior to being selected as CDS. He saw how the Australian Army commander was recieved on a similar issueand how badly Lawson was doing so he styled his approach appropriately. Lawson was actually attempting to take a measured approach while Vance saw the public wanted indignation and condemnation.
 

daftandbarmy

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Will this revelation do irreparable harm to the Operation Honour MO? Will the troops be tuning out senior officers speeches with the thought of "Screw them! They tell us not to be a POS but act like POS themselves."

It's OK, OP HONOUR is only the latest in a string of superficially effective programs aimed at improving the CAF. You can identify these programs because they are usually heralded by a flurry of 'we won't stand for this kind of thing anymore' statements, then followed up with a meaningless online self-test and not much more.

Lest we think the CAF are alone in experiencing this kind of leadership chaos, here's a good article about that kind of thing:

Why Leadership Development Isn’t Developing Leaders​


Too many business leaders today are out of touch with the employees they lead. Edelman estimates that one in three employees doesn’t trust their employer — despite the fact that billions are spent every year on leadership development. Part of the problem: Our primary method of developing leaders is antithetical to the type of leadership we need.

The vast majority of leadership programs are set curricula delivered through classroom-taught, rationally based, individual-focused methods. Participants are taken out of their day-to-day workplaces to be inspired by expert faculty, work on case studies, receive personal feedback, and take away the latest leadership thinking (and badges for their résumés). Yet study after study, including my own, tells us the qualities that leaders in today’s world need are intuitive, dynamic, collaborative, and grounded in here-and-now emotional intelligence.

The mismatch between leadership development as it exists and what leaders actually need is enormous and widening. What would work better?

Over the last 16 years I have carried out research into how leaders create change, and I’ve worked in the change leadership field for 25 years in multinational corporations. Over that time, I’ve come to appreciate four factors that lie at the heart of good, practical leadership development: making it experiential; influencing participants’ “being,” not just their “doing”; placing it into its wider, systemic context; and enrolling faculty who act less as experts and more as Sherpas.

 

Humphrey Bogart

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Will this revelation do irreparable harm to the Operation Honour MO? Will the troops be tuning out senior officers speeches with the thought of "Screw them! They tell us not to be a POS but act like POS themselves."
You mean they aren't already doing that? 😄
 

Rifleman62

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The GG, the CDS. Does that take the taxpayers focus on Trudeau's failure to deliver vaccines? Doubt it wasn't deliberately planned to drop when needed by the Liberals. Nothing is not known in Ottawa included the marital status of the PM.
 
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