Defining Foreign and Defence Policy (and hence our Military Force)

[FSTO]

I understand the skepticism.  I get that the last government announced much and ended up funding little.  I just know that many of the conservative persuasion have a special hate for Trudeau.

I grew up under Trudeau senior and I wasn't a fan.

I am of the opinion that there is no sand in Trudeau junior and nothing he has done has changed my assessment.

I wonder if Goodale, Garneau and other more solid ministers are the senior architects of this more muscular direction.

 

[MilEME09]

I wonder if Goodale, Garneau and other more solid ministers are the senior architects of this more muscular direction.

I'm sure any "transformation" of the CAF will have Andrew Leslie's hands all over it

 

[jmt18325]

I grew up under Trudeau senior and I wasn't a fan.

I am of the opinion that there is no sand in Trudeau junior and nothing he has done has changed my assessment.

I wonder if Goodale, Garneau and other more solid ministers are the senior architects of this more muscular direction.

If it's happening (if) Trudeau agreed to it.  It's quite clear (to most of us anyway) that's he's firmly in charge of the agenda.  He simply fools a lot of you by taking a lot of pictures and smiling.

 

[jollyjacktar]

jmt, something you have to understand and accept.  Many of the old bastards here, and I am one, have heard so may promises made and seen them broken by successive governments over the years that we don't blindly believe anymore.  I will freely admit to not being a JT fan, but I remember his dad.  I truly do hope that the son surprises me, in a good way, but I'm still waiting.  That being said, I really do have a hate in my heart for Jean Chretien, more so than JT.  If that's any comfort.

 

[MilEME09]

jmt, something you have to understand and accept.  Many of the old bastards here, and I am one, have heard so may promises made and seen them broken by successive governments over the years that we don't blindly believe anymore.  I will freely admit to not being a JT fan, but I remember his dad.  I truly do hope that the son surprises me, in a good way, but I'm still waiting.  That being said, I really do have a hate in my heart for Jean Chretien, more so than JT.  If that's any comfort.

maybe this will be like PT, buy a few new tanks and ships, say they are support the armed forces, and call it a day. Unless I hear tomorrow of some five year plan to expand the CAF, begin purchasing new equipment, fast track needed equipment, massive infrastructure investments on bases, and the money to back it up. I'll hold my breath, sip my Crown royal, and call it just another day in Canadian politics.

 

[CBH99]

Who are we kidding here ?
In order to to do that we'd have to spend a lot more on defence a lot more . Far more the the amount we are spending now and probably more than the 2 % we promised to NATO and have never delivered on.
Canadian are quite happy to be the US's ***** but will never admit to it.
It relieves us from doing any heavy lifting and taking any responsibility and spending money we use for other areas.
In short we resemble that 35 year still living in his mom's basement
We have one of the finest Medical care systems in the world indirectly subsidised by the US Taxpayer . Our EI system our education system all indirectly subsidised by guess who ?

Genuinely curious, but how is our medical care system, EI, and education systems funded indirectly by the US taxpayer?

 

[Lightguns]

Garbage political speech. Proof of any real foreign policy change will be the Defense Review tomorrow, and real dollars put behind solving DNDs issues.

Colour me cynical that the Liberal party that hid behind the US defense machine in the 1990s to early 2000s, is suddenly ready to open the coffers and realize that the world needs more than hollow words.

Concur, just words to show the EU the Liberal government still loves them.  Meaningless tripe followed by a military rebuilding plan that will start the year the Liberals know they can no longer win an election.  Which is followed by a shrug and a "we tried but Canadians said no".

 

[The Bread Guy]

My guess is that half of the things they announce will be stuff they've already rolled out, and the other half will be handouts to the PQ based defense industry.

Or just bring back stuff they said they'd put off - voila, "new" defence spending!

 

[Edward Campbell]

There are two pretty good responses to Minister Freeland's speech in the Opinion section of the Globe and Mail:

Freeland’s speech: A lot of nice words, but no practical action by Simon Palamar, who is a research associate at the Centre for International Governance Innovation; and

Freeland has woken up to reality. But has Trudeau? by David Bercuson, who is director of the Centre for Military, Security and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary and a fellow of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I can see increase defense infrastructure spending, more money to get more diversity into the forces, they order 10,000 blue berets, likely start a procurement process that will somehow involve Bombardier. Likely "announce" investment in infrastructure overseas to support our forces in Eastern Europe. They will toss some goodies to the troops and will re-annouce the tax exemption.

What I would like to see is an agreement to buy 2 Resolve AOR's (in addition to the Queenston Class) and have Davie organize a contract to build and/or finish 2 Mistral class ships. A purchase of new tactical trucks, leasing of a tracked APC/IFV for the European theatre to equip the units over there, procurement of AD systems and ATGM's. A increase in Combat arms and Combat support trades PY by 5% next year and 2% every year after for 5 years. Announce moving a squadron closer to one of the bigger cities and increase in Aircrew/ground crew for aircraft squadrons. Also a 10 year plan on upgrading the equipment used by the Reserves and 10% increase in personal.   

 

[jmt18325]

Freeland has woken up to reality. But has Trudeau? by David Bercuson, who is director of the Centre for Military, Security and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary and a fellow of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute.

The idea that Trudeau sat in the front bench and listened to (and congratulated) his Foreign Affairs Minister on a speech he didn't agree with/wasn't behind is kind of preposterous.

 

[Lightguns]

The idea that Trudeau sat in the front bench and listened to (and congratulated) his Foreign Affairs Minister on a speech he didn't agree with/wasn't behind is kind of preposterous.

You do not understand politics do you?  Optics are more important than substance in politics, especially in a Democracy because by the time you have to do something, the public is voting you out.  It's always the next guy's problem. 

 

[Old Sweat]

Just a suggestion, along with a bit of speculation leads towards the theory that this hard power course is 180 degrees from what the Liberals actually want to do. Ms Freeland has blamed this all on President Trump after all without mentioning him by name, and I think they are betting on Trump being a one term president, or even "hopefully" being impeached in 2018 or 2019. This then should lead to a more conventional chief executive and they can go back to chasing unicorns.

 

[Rifleman62]

Meaning all the new spending will trickle to 2019/20 then be reneged on with the election of a new Democratic POTUS.

Hillary is thinking of running in 2020. She will protect us.

 

[jmt18325]

You do not understand politics do you?  Optics are more important than substance in politics, especially in a Democracy because by the time you have to do something, the public is voting you out.  It's always the next guy's problem.

I understand politics quite well.  The government obviously supports the optics.  We'll find out if they support the substance

 

[The Bread Guy]

You do not understand politics do you?  Optics are more important than substance in politics, especially in a Democracy because by the time you have to do something, the public is voting you out.  It's always the next guy's problem.

Yup -- PMJT wouldn't be the first politician (and won't be the last) to benefit from the, "one person says one thing, another says another, so we can make it mean whatever we like" approach to political messaging.

Just a suggestion, along with a bit of speculation leads towards the theory that this hard power course is 180 degrees from what the Liberals actually want to do. Ms Freeland has blamed this all on President Trump after all without mentioning him by name, and I think they are betting on Trump being a one term president, or even "hopefully" being impeached in 2018 or 2019. This then should lead to a more conventional chief executive and they can go back to chasing unicorns.

Hmmm - never say never ...

We'll find out if they support the substance

Around 12:30pm Eastern, in fact ...

 

[MilEME09]

Should I already be worried they are using an LSVW as a prop for the announcement?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The idea that Trudeau sat in the front bench and listened to (and congratulated) his Foreign Affairs Minister on a speech he didn't agree with/wasn't behind is kind of preposterous.

I agree with you on this, every word of that speech was looked over by at least 10 sets of eyes if not more. Which is why I hate doing briefing notes and scenario notes for Ministers. Everybody has to pee a bit on a corner of the document to make sure they are noticed.

 

[MilEME09]

Budget increases of 7% over the next 10 years, 88 is the new fighter jet requirement, regular force to increase to 71,000. 15 CSC's confirmed as the minimum. This is just going on and on holy moly, i must be dreaming.

 

[jmt18325]

Is it too early to gloat?