Canadian soldiers fatally shoot taxi driver

[casing]

Pretty sure I saw on the news that the unfortunate civie was a passenger in the taxi.  That being the case, I would say it rules out the possibility of "suicide by cop".  We'll likely never know the actual situation within the taxi, but I find it interesting enough to note--but not at all surprised by it--that the Canucks are blamed by the family (taken from the reaction of a family member complaining that the Canadians just "threw him to the side of the road and left"), rather than the taxi driver.

In any case, while it was an unfortunate incident, I fully support the troops following their ROEs.

 

[GK .Dundas]

It has to be noted that most drivers over there are convinced the laws of physics do'nt apply to them..... much less traffic laws.
To the young troop :Well done son,soldier on.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Pike has a web page?

I bet thats a fun place.

 

[westie47]

The problem with the Afghans is that they are generally dense!!! We would wave at them to slow down or stop, then hold our rifles out or point them at them.  Sometimes it took more.  They just drive right at you.  The funy thing is that they are staring right at you the whole time!!!! You can be waving like mad and they don't respond.  Serves the guy right as far as I am concerned.

 

[The Gues-|-]

That must be frustrating. 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

If they haven't figured it out by now I doubt they every will.

 

[MikeM]

Good on the soldier, definetly worth a few pints for what he did.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

I heard prob the best comment on this issue on the radio from Edmonton this morning.  This is in regard to the Afgans maybe rising up against our troops because of this issue.

If the people are pissed and going to rise up against the Canadians then why did they not rise up against the Taliban and then we would not have to be there in the first place.

Now that makes sense. Do you think the are dense or just don't care?

I feel bad for the guy who's actions are now being questioned.  But i guess that is the Canadian way.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Family of man shot by Cdn. troops wants $30,000

CTV.ca News Staff

The family of a man fatally shot by Canadian troops in Afghanistan wants $30,000 in compensation, and is disputing the version of events offered by the military on the shooting.

According to Maj. Scott Lundy, the driver of a taxi ran an Afghan police checkpoint just outside Kandahar late Tuesday.

"That led to several shots being fired directly at the vehicle in an effort to disable it," Lundy told CTV Newsnet from Kandahar on Wednesday.

"... Despite repeated warnings by our crew in our vehicles, (the cab) approached to within two feet of one of our vehicles," said Lt.-Col Derek Basinger of Task Force Afghanistan.

However, CTV's Ellen Pinchuk, reporting from Kandahar, said the son of the victim was in the car, and claims there was no checkpoint, and no signals were given to tell the vehicle to stop.

"He claims that the Canadians simply opened fire and that his father was killed by one of the two shots that were fired," Pinchuk told CTV Newsnet on Thursday.

Grieving relatives attended a funeral for the shooting victim in Kandahar Thursday.

The independent Canadian Forces National Investigation Service and the Afghan police are looking into Tuesday's incident.

The soldier who fired the shots has been temporarily relieved of duty -- a normal procedure.

On patrol

Canadian troops have been forced to fire warning shots near approaching vehicles 10 times in the last several months.

They are on guard for suicide bombers, who have targeted Canadian military vehicles in Afghanistan several times. The most recent incident on March 3 injured one soldier.

Meanwhile, Taliban leader Mullah Omar claimed in a statement Thursday that a large number of Afghans were signing up as suicide bombers to target foreign and Afghan troops.

"This year, with the beginning of summer, Afghan soil will turn red for the crusaders and their puppets and the occupiers will face an unpredictable wave of Afghan resistance," said the statement.

It predicted 2006 will be "the year of success and victory for Muslims."

The statement was telephoned first to Associated Press reporters in Kandahar and the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, and subsequently emailed from an unidentified sender.

Previous statements attributed to Omar have also warned of increased attacks.

Violence usually escalates in Afghanistan at the start of summer, as snow melts in the mountains, where insurgents are hiding out.

There are more than 2,200 Canadian troops stationed in Kandahar. They are led by Canadian Brig.-Gen. David Fraser, who took command of a multinational brigade in the Kandahar region at the end of February.

 

[COBRA-6]

The problem with the Afghans is that they are generally dense!!! We would wave at them to slow down or stop, then hold our rifles out or point them at them.  Sometimes it took more.  They just drive right at you.  The funy thing is that they are staring right at you the whole time!!!! You can be waving like mad and they don't respond.  Serves the guy right as far as I am concerned.

+1

We had a guy clip a Gwagon trailer in our convoy one day, he was looking right at us as he merged from the median into the side of the trailer, and it was the second vehicle in the convoy that he hit, not the first!!  :

The aviation community calls it "controlled flight into terrain"...

 

[KevinB]

Or the dumbass that ran into me in his brand new Infinty SUV (he had 50cent that waste of skin rap crap playing on his stereo)
I think his scrapped my bumper paint while it stove in his side  ;D

the road and the principles of driving an automobile are about 100years ahead of their thought processes in my experience...

My somewhat compassionate side says:
It is unfortunate when you have to open fire on a suspect vehicle that turns out in hindsight to just have been an idiot.

My cynical side says:
"DARWINISM"...

 

[Koenigsegg]

In all of the articles I have read on this incident, they all say that there were no passengers, or there was no reference to a passenger...  I am slightly confused as you people are saying that it was a passenger that died.

However, They could very well be taking a page out of Giap's war book.  They could be trying show the Canadian public exactly what they don't want to see.  In Vietnam, Giap used the Tet Offensive to show the US public the Military losing its grip on Vietnam by having a ton of cities and towns over run.  However, most of those places were taken back in an encredibly short period of time, but the damage had already been done.  The public saw a lit bit of a skewed sense of the war, and turned even more against the conflict and the government.

I suppose only time will tell what comes of this incident.

 

[geo]

koenigsegg... passenger in taxi is the one who bought it.
our Medics did give aid... he didn't make it.

This is not a Giap move to confuse the population.... at least not this time.

 

[S McKee]

Unfortunately these shoot or don't shoot situations are going to happen, sometimes innocence people will be killed. I heard some negative comments about the fact that this soldier is being investigated. Welcome to the age of accountability... we are technically not at war with anyone, so technically any killing done by our forces can't be chalked up to an "Act of War". We are nation building and helping a foreign government enforce peace. For the record I agree that the soldier had every justification to shoot, and I'm sure he will be cleared. However even though we have aggressive ROE doesn't mean we won't be questioned on our actions, and we shouldn't  be insulted or upset when we are. Just like the policeman who shoots someone while on duty an investigation must be conducted. We're just like the world's biggest police force, only the bad guys have RPGs and machineguns.

 

[armyrules]

Yes I feel bad for the taxi driver. But when he was told to stop he should've stopped. I heard on the radio that over there it is posted on the local radio station to stay away form the convoys  like how much info do these people need? I also heard that it was a warning shot that killed the civvie. I might be wrong but they guys were just doing their job.

 

[Armymedic]

our Medics did give aid... he didn't make it.

Hindsight being 20/20... the only one on scene that night who may have screwed up was the medic. A gun shot wound to the chest, regardless of how bad you think it is, is always serious.

Scoop and run.

The only saviour for the medic is that reports say ANP/others took the casualty off scene right away. If that is the case, there was nothing more the medic could do, and its all good.

Investigations are not always looking for blame. They will also seee if the ROE procedures were correct, and how, if need be, they should be adjusted.

 

[geo]

Correct armymedic - Investigators frequently point out policy / SOP errors that need to be sharpened a little bit - in face of local situations and adjusting to the locals adjusting to us.

WRT to the cas - yup, the Medic did do a handover to the local authorities. There was nothing more for the medic to do - xcept get into the way of the local caregivers AND stand around for the local population to vent their spleen.

The sentry did his job
The medic did his job

time to move on and "soldier on"

Chimo!

 

[Franko]

Just to echo a few points already brought up.....

During the road moves between Kabul and Kandahar I almost employed the ROE due to the threat level / INTSUM given....twice.

In one instance (they were pretty much the exact same) a vehicle was in the area we were in, described in the INTSUM to a tee, raced up behind our LAV.

I informed the RSM and began the employment of the ROE...hand gestures etc.

Only when I took aim at the car with the C9 and take the safety off did the driver clue in and hit the brakes...his eyes were as big as a melmak plate.

I was milli-seconds away from putting rounds into his hood....and a second from putting them into him.

As the RSM said after it all...better trialled by 12 than carried by 6.

I'm sure the soldier involved will carry on knowing he could have done nothing different. He did his job plain and simple...and to the letter.

His patrol made it back to the wire safe and sound...some, unfortunately, haven't.

As for the medic...he did a handover to the local authorities, his hands are clean as well.




The bigger question should be....why did the local run the check point to begin with?

As for Pike and her site....who cares what she thinks. She'd probably have the soldier up on warcrimes    :

Regards

 

[Haggis]

As for Pike and her site....who cares what she thinks. She'd probably have the soldier up on warcrimes    :

Franko:

By trying the soldier in the court of public opinion she can pronounce us all guilty.

 

[geo]

guilty?

Aye.... guilty of doing our coutry's bidding and saving lives

Guilty as charged!

Chimo!