Canada's New Defence Minister

[Rifleman62]

Headline: War hero, former Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan to become Minister of Veterans Affairs; former Astronaut and military officer Marc Garneau to be Minister of National Defence, steering the department to new heights.  ;D

 

[The Bread Guy]

Headline: War hero, former Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan to become Minister of Veterans Affairs; former Astronaut and military officer Marc Garneau to be Minister of National Defence, steering the department to new heights.  ;D

I'm surprised you didn't use the chance to throw "architect" in there somewhere  ;D

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Wow! Going from a three-ringer to a four-ringer. What next? A GOFO !!!  [

 

[a_majoor]

I will raise the same issue Edward did with Minister Sajjan: Does Minister Garneau have the resume showing experience managing extremely large and complicated organizations like DND? Especially given the President's use of an electric cattle prod to bring Canadian defense spending closer to the 2% of GDP mark, and the possibility of having to advance things from the Liberal timetable due to external shocks (flare ups in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, South China Sea, DPRK, Mexican drug war etc.)

I'll adopt a wait and see attitude.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Does Minister Garneau have the resume showing experience managing extremely large and complicated organizations like DND?

Resumes showing experience doesn't seem to be a prerequisite with the Liberal cabinet.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Does Minister Garneau have the resume showing experience managing extremely large and complicated organizations like DND? ...

Resumes showing experience doesn't seem to be a prerequisite with the Liberal cabinet.

And this is the standard by which you've judged other defence ministers -- like some before the incumbent?

Let's go down the most recent list ...

• Jason Kenney:  Former NGO/advocacy group boss
• Rob Nicholson:  Former lawyer
• Peter MacKay:  Former Crown Attorney
• Gordon O'Connor:  Former armoured/general officer, PR/lobbyist
• Bill Graham:  Lawyer/university prof
• David Pratt:  Former municipal politician
• John McCallum:  Academic/chief economist
• Art Eggleton:  Accountant/municipal politician
• Doug Young:  Broadcaster, businessman, lawyer, notary, teacher

Or is it just the red ones that need all this experience in managing complicated organizations to be a defence minister?    According to the list, you have good odds if you've been a lawyer before ...

 

[jmt18325]

Resumes showing experience doesn't seem to be a prerequisite with the Liberal cabinet.

Based on what, exactly?  And in comparison to previous cabinets?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have read that some consider Bill Graham as the best Liberal Defense Minister we had.

 

[Lightguns]

There is zero requirement to know anything about DND for a MDND.  That's what uncivil servants are for.  A proper minister works his way around the cabinet table to get his ministry on the top of the heap.  Military experienced MDND are nothing but trouble, witness O'Connor (whose rep was as "the Other CDS"; Bombardier Hellyer, and his near destruction of the Service; and last but not least Sir Sam and his crony contracts, his Anglo only recruiters in Franco areas and his self award to theater medals because he "visited" the trenches.  There was a couple others but they seemed to have managed to remain competently mediocre.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=milnews.ca]
Or is it just the red ones that need all this experience in managing complicated organizations to be a defence minister?    According to the list, you have good odds if you've been a lawyer before ...
[/quote]

Only the red ones, blue are all good!

You got me, you're right.  I'll back pedal and say I meant to imply an over all theme to pick members based on (what seems to me) gender and other status than experience.  Before I'm tracked down and charged I'm not suggesting that's why the current mnd was picked at all but there does seem to be an over all theme with the liberal government.  Am I wrong about where the emphasis seems to be?

 

[jmt18325]

Only the red ones, blue are all good!

You got me, you're right.  I'll back pedal and say I meant to imply an over all theme to pick members based on (what seems to me) gender and other status than experience.  Before I'm tracked down and charged I'm not suggesting that's why the current mnd was picked at all but there does seem to be an over all theme with the liberal government.  Am I wrong about where the emphasis seems to be?

If you go through the list of Liberal ministers, you'll find that most of them have held very important roles outside of government. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Only the red ones, blue are all good!

That's more honest than many  ;D

... an over all theme to pick members based on (what seems to me) gender and other status than experience ... there does seem to be an over all theme with the liberal government ...

For the record, Canada's only had one female DefMin - and she was Team Blue ...

When it comes to what to look for in a DefMin (I'm keeping it just to that position because of the thread's focus), even military experience seems to be a mixed blessing.  Some say it's best for a DefMin to be former military because s/he would know a bit about how "the system" works.  Others say such experience is a minus because it may focus their attention to details they know, but ones that may not be critical to deal with as a Minister.  Wikipedia (usual GIGO caveats notwithstanding) says only 13 out of 41 of Canada's DefMin's have had military experience, ranging from Battery Sergeant Major (yay sr. NCO's) up to General (mostly a mix of junior & senior officers).

 

[GAP]

Didn't she gift the army with the Iltis because it was built in her riding?

 

[Old Sweat]

Didn't she gift the army with the Iltis because it was built in her riding?

The Iltis came along in the early-eighties after Bombardier asked Lamontagne to buy it to help the company with a sale to, I believe, Belgium. I think you may be referring to a later vehicle that was to be built in BC, Kelowna perhaps.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I agree that military experience is not a requirement for a MND. But some kind of demonstration of capacity for management and some demonstrated capacity for research/analysis/drafting as can be expected from someone who has at least graduated university is, IMHO. Then, in the case of the larger and more important departments, some ministerial experience (or at least long political experience) is a very important asset.

Sajan had no university degree at all (was not required when he joined the Militia), as police officer, then detective, he never "administered" anything nor worked in large groups for his civilian work, finally he was only just elected in this last election and was therefore a complete political neophyte.

Garneau, on the other hand, holds a Doctorate in engineering, was President of the Canadian Space Agency for 5 years and has been a member of the House of commons for 10 years before becoming a minister of the Crown.

I trust more in Garneau than in Sajan for an important portfolio like Defence.

 

[Haggis]

I trust more in Garneau than in Sajan for an important portfolio like Defence.

Canadian Defence is only important to those who work in the sector (uniformed and civilian) and those who deal with it as suppliers or enablers. Occasionally, Canadian Defence is important to our allies.  Rarely is Canadian Defence important to Canadians writ large and they are the one who will vote in the Liberals again in the next election.  Therefore, my prediction is that the next MND will be neither solder, sailor, aviator or statesman, but simply a quiet, competent manager/administrator who will keep DND and the CAF humming silently in the background and out of the media's sights.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Canadian Defence is only important to those who work in the sector (uniformed and civilian) and those who deal with it as suppliers or enablers. Occasionally, Canadian Defence is important to our allies.  Rarely is Canadian Defence important to Canadians writ large and they are the one who will vote in the Liberals again in the next election.  Therefore, my prediction is that the next MND will be neither solder, sailor, aviator or statesman, but simply a quiet, competent manager/administrator who will keep DND and the CAF humming silently in the background and out of the media's sights.

Pretty much and what you stated fits with the order of precedence of the assigned ministers:

The order of precedence for the ministry is determined by the Prime Minister. The order in which ministers are sworn into the ministry is also determined by the Prime Minister.

The Right Honourable Justin P. J. Trudeau
Prime Minister

The Honourable Ralph Goodale
Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

The Honourable Lawrence MacAulay
Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

The Honourable Carolyn Bennett
Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs

The Honourable Scott Brison
President of the Treasury Board

The Honourable Dominic LeBlanc
Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard

The Honourable Navdeep Singh Bains
Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development

The Honourable William Francis Morneau
Minister of Finance

The Honourable Jody Wilson-Raybould
Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

The Honourable Judy M. Foote
Minister of Public Services and Procurement

The Honourable Chrystia Freeland
Minister of Foreign Affairs

The Honourable Jane Philpott
Minister of Health

The Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos
Minister of Families, Children and Social Development

The Honourable Marc Garneau
Minister of Transport

The Honourable Marie-Claude Bibeau
Minister of International Development and La Francophonie

The Honourable James Gordon Carr
Minister of Natural Resources

The Honourable Mélanie Joly
Minister of Canadian Heritage

The Honourable Diane Lebouthillier
Minister of National Revenue

The Honourable Kent Hehr
Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence

The Honourable Catherine McKenna
Minister of Environment and Climate Change

The Honourable Harjit Singh Sajjan
Minister of National Defence

The Honourable Amarjeet Sohi
Minister of Infrastructure and Communities

The Honourable Maryam Monsef
Minister of Status of Women

The Honourable Carla Qualtrough
Minister of Sport and Persons with Disabilities

The Honourable Kirsty Duncan
Minister of Science

The Honourable Patricia A. Hajdu
Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour

The Honourable Bardish Chagger
Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism

The Honourable François-Philippe Champagne
Minister of International Trade

The Honourable Karina Gould
Minister of Democratic Institutions

The Honourable Ahmed D. Hussen
Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/index.asp?lang=eng&page=prec

You can see where National Defence ranks on the scale of importance for the government; number 21 between climate change and infrastructure and communities.

Public Safety, which is responsible for National Security and oversees CSIS, RCMP, CBSA, Corrections, etc is #2

Public Safety leans heavily on DND/CAF for support to its mandate; however, we aren't important in the halls of decision-making.

 

[jmt18325]

Pretty much and what you stated fits with the order of precedence of the assigned ministers:
http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/index.asp?lang=eng&page=prec

You can see where National Defence ranks on the scale of importance for the government; number 21 between climate change and infrastructure and communities.

Public Safety, which is responsible for National Security and oversees CSIS, RCMP, CBSA, Corrections, etc is #2

Public Safety leans heavily on DND/CAF for support to its mandate; however, we aren't important in the halls of decision-making.

I think that might be a misunderstanding of what is meant:

Members of the Cabinet in order of appointment to the Queen's Privy Council for Canada with ties broken by order of election to the House or appointment to the Senate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_order_of_precedence

It then goes by alphabetical order.  It has nothing to do with importance.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I think that might be a misunderstanding of what is meant:

Members of the Cabinet in order of appointment to the Queen's Privy Council for Canada with ties broken by order of election to the House or appointment to the Senate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_order_of_precedence

It then goes by alphabetical order.  It has nothing to do with importance.

In theory Jmt it is only a nominal role; however, in terms of messaging it's important.  So we will agree to disagree on this  8)

Order of precedence is a sequential hierarchy of nominal importance of items.

All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others 

We also have order of precedence in the military with respect to medals, decorations, etc.  A VC is of greater importance than a MMV, MSC to MSM, etc.

 

[Monsoon]

I will raise the same issue Edward did with Minister Sajjan: Does Minister Garneau have the resume showing experience managing extremely large and complicated organizations like DND? Especially given the President's use of an electric cattle prod to bring Canadian defense spending closer to the 2% of GDP mark, and the possibility of having to advance things from the Liberal timetable due to external shocks (flare ups in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, South China Sea, DPRK, Mexican drug war etc.)

I'll adopt a wait and see attitude.

Don't know what your standard for a "large and complicated organization" is, but Garneau ran the Space Agency for four years; that ain't nothing.