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CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

He’s also ‘ripping up’ Ontario’s $100m contract with Elon Musk’s Starlink to provide satellite internet to more remote parts of Ontario.


Denying satellite internet to remote parts of Ontario, ok great. What's the alternative?
 
For reference, Visual Capitalist has a great map showing which US States have which countries as their largest source of imports. Lots of States will be significantly impacted by the tariffs on Canada, Mexico (and China).

 
Premier Doug Ford has announced that Ontario will be blocking US companies out of bidding on provincial contracts, potentially a loss of $10b a year in business (something something trade balance). He’s also ‘ripping up’ Ontario’s $100m contract with Elon Musk’s Starlink to provide satellite internet to more remote parts of Ontario.

an interesting take on the caretaker convention
 
Sept 24, 2024 - 1 USD buys 1.35 CAD
Today - 1 USD buys 1.48 CAD
USD strengthened by 9.6%

Sept 24 2024 - 1 USD buys 0.89 Euro
Today - 1 USD buys 0.98 Euro
USD strengthened by 10.1%

Sept 24 2024 - 1 USD buys 0.74 UKP
Today - 1 USD buys 0.81 UKP
USD strengthened by 9.5%


Trump has been telegraphing his 10% tariffs since before his election. His win looked fairly certain since late September, early October. The dollar has strengthened by 10% since then creating room for a 10% tariff.

The American consumer will not feel the general tariff.

They will feel the punitive tariffs, those at the 25% level, for example.
 
Both of these articles are required reading.



There is a plan. It is being worked. And it does tie all the pieces together.

This is no spur of the moment action. This is not dependent on the whim of POTUS47.

....

Trump has said many things. And it is possible for many things to be true simultaneously.


...

Against this backdrop are the separate issues of long term Canada US relations and the bipartisan attitude towards Canada in the US - and I suggest 2% Defence, Arctic Security, Immigration Controls (ours, not his) and Border Controls as well as Canada-China relations all fall into that category.

Then, layered on top of that is the Trump-Trudeau dynamic.

....

The articles at the top reference Churchill's return to the Gold Standard Pound in 1925, the Bretton Woods agreement of 1944 and the Nixon repudiation of the Gold Standard in 1973. In all cases Canada suffered and recovered. Sometimes the recovery was longer and more painful than others. But the effects were global and long lasting.

Both behind a pay wall for me.
 
I missed banking on my bingo card last week, but it fits.

From @Kirkhill G&M article

"Tariffs are thus a means to increase “burden sharing” among liberal democracies protected by the U.S. security umbrella and to level trading relationships when partners have better access to U.S. markets than the U.S. has to theirs.

Mr. Miran wants tariffs to cause “currency adjustments.” This is a polite term for crushing the currencies of trading partners that don’t come to the table and offer to “burden share” while opening trade agreements to be more favourable to U.S. job creation."

In other words- fair is going to be redefined to whatever US says it is, and we're going to have to choose been national interests and access to their market.
 
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This is an excellent video (my opinion not fact).

I must admit that in the last 2-3 weeks my eyes have been really opened up to inter-provincial trade barriers and was quite surprised

 
Sorry, I'm referring to him being the caliber of a Min of Fin over a PM. PM would be the case of being promoted 1 level higher than your abilities.
I do not agree with the vast majority of his CDN public policies but in terms of understanding the responsibilities and role of a Min of Fin he would be excellent. The 'right' PM would keep him in line and ensure that he followed the economy policies as directed by the PM.
Just because one doesn't agree with his economic policies (which I don't) does not mean that he would not be a good Min of Fin. I tend to give credit where credit is due, regardless if I agree with the political or economic policy. Hence my belief that Paul Martin Jr was an excellent Min of Fin, I may not agree with a majority of the policies that he enacted but I do believe that he did his job very very well and had the respect of the business markets - which matters an awful lot.

He would have massive influence on the PM as finance minister. I stand by him being a disaster if he is allowed anywhere near government.
 
Team Red seems to have missed the ball completely according to the WH -


Sheinbaum said in a social media post she had a "good conversation" with the president after she agreed to deploy 10,000 Mexican national guard troops to the U.S. border.

She said the "tariffs are paused for one month from now," as a result of that commitment. It wasn't immediately clear if she was referring to Trump's tariffs on Mexico or her threatened retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods.

In a social media post after his call with Trudeau wrapped, Trump chastised Canada for not allowing U.S. banks to "open or do business there - I called this point a few weeks ago. As someone who has worked in the finance industry in both the US and Canada, I've often wondered how the fuck are our banks able to run amok in the US buying up whatever they want but the US hasn't come after us to ask for the same thing. TD Bank has MORE bank branches in the US than in all of Canada.


White House says Canada has 'misunderstood' tariff order as a trade war, Mexico is 'serious'​

"The good news is that in our conversations over the weekend, one of the things we've noticed is that Mexicans are very, very serious about doing what President Trump said," Kevin Hassett, the director of the White House's National Economic Council, said on CNBC.
"Canadians appear to have misunderstood the plain language of the executive order and they're interpreting it as a trade war," Hassett added.
When asked what Canada and Mexico must do to lift the 25% tariffs that Trump announced on Saturday, the president told reporters on Sunday they "have to balance out their trade, number one."
 
From BBCHere

Donald Trump has now just confirmed the "immediate pause" in anticipated tariffs on goods from Mexico via a post on Truth Social.

"We [...] agreed to immediately pause the anticipated tariffs for a one month period during which we will have negotiations headed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Secretary of Treasury Scott Bessent, and Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick, and high-level Representatives of Mexico," he writes.
 
We need more of this, but the current government has their head in the sand.

The irony is that the current government will add tens of billions to the deficit to offset the impact of Trump’s tariffs, but spread just over one billion dollars over 2/3 of a decade to address the security concerns. It will be a very societally expensive cutting-nose-off-to-spite-the-face approach.
 
In a social media post after his call with Trudeau wrapped, Trump chastised Canada for not allowing U.S. banks to "open or do business there - I called this point a few weeks ago. As someone who has worked in the finance industry in both the US and Canada, I've often wondered how the fuck are our banks able to run amok in the US buying up whatever they want but the US hasn't come after us to ask for the same thing. TD Bank has MORE bank branches in the US than in all of Canada.
Access to our banking sector can be an area of discussion to secure permanent trade/tariff peace, but it would be a mistake to sellout our banking sector for a 1 month tariff delay.


White House says Canada has 'misunderstood' tariff order as a trade war, Mexico is 'serious'​

"The good news is that in our conversations over the weekend, one of the things we've noticed is that Mexicans are very, very serious about doing what President Trump said," Kevin Hassett, the director of the White House's National Economic Council, said on CNBC.
"Canadians appear to have misunderstood the plain language of the executive order and they're interpreting it as a trade war," Hassett added.
When asked what Canada and Mexico must do to lift the 25% tariffs that Trump announced on Saturday, the president told reporters on Sunday they "have to balance out their trade, number one."
Aren’t those last two bolded sentences contradictory? Hassett says to focus on the plain language of the executive order (which is all about fentanyl and border security) and not view it as a trade war, yet Trump is the one saying the number one issue is balancing out trade. And now Trump is raising the issue of access to our banking sector to resolve the tariffs. It’s not Canada that’s misunderstanding the point of the executive order that’s supposed to be focused on border security, it’s Trump.
 
The first of the two pay-walled articles in the Globe and Mail I referenced above.

How are we so befuddled at U.S. tariffs, when it’s all been so obvious?​

John Turley-Ewart
Special to The Globe and Mail
Published Yesterday
For Subscribers

John Turley-Ewart is a regulatory compliance consultant and Canadian banking historian.

When this period in our country’s history is written, Canada’s initial response to U.S. tariffs – shock, talk and awe for tit-for-tat retaliatory trade rules – will measure the complacency with which we have managed trade relations. Our leaders were blind to the dynamics driving efforts by many Americans to upend the global trading system. To paraphrase James Carville: It’s their economy, stupid.

Why this U.S. administration applauds tariffs should not be a secret. U.S. President Donald Trump’s chief economist, Stephen Miran, a Harvard-trained PhD and hedge fund strategist nominated to chair the President’s Council of Economic Advisers, wrote in November “A User’s Guide to Restructuring the Global Trading System.”

He asserts that, “The deep unhappiness with the prevailing economic order is noted in persistent overvaluation of the [U.S.] dollar and asymmetric trade conditions. Such overvaluation makes U.S. exports less competitive, U.S. imports cheaper, and handicaps American manufacturing.” For Mr. Miran, tariffs can mitigate the consequences of the U.S. dollar’s reserve currency status and the openness of U.S. markets (millions of jobs losses among the working classes and blighted communities across America).

To be sure, tariffs would likely see the value of our dollar versus the U.S. dollar drop, as more expensive Canadian exports result in lower demand. This makes the greenback even more overvalued, exacerbating the problem Mr. Miran sees in the first place. And ultimately tariffs would bring inflation, Canadian leaders say. American consumers will revolt.

Mr. Miran’s answer to that is twofold. He’d introduce reduced U.S. corporate taxation, extensive deregulation as means of supporting U.S. exports despite a higher U.S. dollar. And, in his view, the higher U.S. dollar would give American consumers the additional purchasing power to absorb some of the tariff cost without stoking too much U.S. inflation.

Will a higher U.S. dollar completely nullify the higher prices that tariffs cause? Probably not. If it does, then there would be no impact on demand for Canadian exports, and thus there would be no higher U.S. dollar in the first place.

But ultimately, doubling down on the higher U.S. dollar, turning a previously unwanted situation into the solution, is precisely the goal. In Mr. Miran’s view, the United States, which gets additional revenue from the tariffs, can take whatever hit that results, and its trading partners, with a battered currency, can’t.

Tariffs are thus a means to increase “burden sharing” among liberal democracies protected by the U.S. security umbrella and to level trading relationships when partners have better access to U.S. markets than the U.S. has to theirs.

Mr. Miran wants tariffs to cause “currency adjustments.” This is a polite term for crushing the currencies of trading partners that don’t come to the table and offer to “burden share” while opening trade agreements to be more favourable to U.S. job creation. This is why, Mr. Miran says, “tariffs are ultimately financed by the tariffed nation, whose real purchasing power and wealth decline.”

He points to the 2018-19 tariffs the first Trump administration imposed on China (and the Biden administration retained) as proof his theory has merit and that it “should inform analysis of future trade conflicts.” In that case the Chinese currency fell, the U.S. dollar strengthened, and the trade deficit remained. But the important thing is that inflation was manageable, China got the message, and new revenue was raised for the U.S. Treasury, according to Mr. Miran.

We will need to come to terms with the fact that the U.S. will assess its relationship with us based on a criteria matrix that includes, as Mr. Miran suggests, if Canada “opens its markets to U.S. firms in the same way America opens its markets to foreign firms operating stateside.”

This has implications for Canadian agricultural supply management, the telecom sector, restrictions on investments, service barriers to online streaming and barriers to digital trade such as the digital service tax.

Importantly, Canadian leaders will urgently need to make the case to the U.S Administration that a “beggar thy neighbour” trade policy with Canada – which a U.S. tariff policy is – undermines Canada’s ability to “burden share” the security umbrella and support U.S. efforts to re-shore manufacturing by crippling the buying power of America’s largest export market.

There is a purpose and method behind the U.S. effort to restructure global trading systems. Understanding that purpose presents the quickest path to picking the best tools to defend Canada while preserving the best elements of our trading relationship with the U.S.
 
The second "must read" referenced above.


Not since Nixon has a U.S. president set in motion such a significant transformation of global economics​

David Shribman
David Shribman
The Globe and Mail
Published Yesterday

In both the Nixon and Trump cases, the American president rebuffed Canadian pleas for special treatment based on the 'special relationship' that presidents and prime ministers had celebrated for decades.

U.S. President Donald Trump’s decision to begin tariffs against Canada, Mexico and China on Tuesday represents the most significant unilateral and intentional economic disruption any global leader has prompted in more than a half-century.

Not since Richard Nixon removed the United States from the gold standard in 1971 and imposed an import surcharge has the unbridled power of an American president – indeed, of any top official anywhere – set in motion a transformation of global economics, trading patterns, international relations and potential consumer impact that remotely approaches the effect of Mr. Trump’s imposition of tariffs against the three top trading partners of the biggest consumer economy in human history.

In both the Nixon and Trump cases, the efforts of Canadian prime ministers – then Pierre Trudeau, now Justin Trudeau – to win concessions were flicked away.

Indeed, those affected by the policies were consulted glancingly, if at all, even though they made their appeals to the administration. Mr. Nixon made his decision during a three-day August retreat at Camp David. Mr. Trump made his during his 2024 presidential campaign. Canada pleaded for exemptions in both cases. The country’s biggest trading partner (Canada purchased US$365.5-billion in American goods in 2022) was rebuffed both times by the leader of the country with which it shares a nearly 9,000-kilometre undefended border.

From blueberries to crankshafts, here’s how tariffs could hit Canada in unexpected ways

To be sure, leaders of the world’s dominant country have an outsized impact on the global economy.

A century ago, Great Britain was the world’s most powerful country, and Winston Churchill’s 1925 decision to repeg the pound at the pre-First World War exchange rate of US$4.86 produced similar shock waves. Though Churchill (who was Chancellor of the Exchequer at the time) acted to restore the old order and preserve monetary discipline, and Mr. Nixon acted to break from the old order and escape discipline, each unilateral action unleashed important consequences.

One of the explanations for why these deliberate economic convulsions are so rare – three major ones in 100 years – is that leaders of powerful countries seldom have the moment in history, or even the inclination, to launch a massive transformation of the global economy, if for no other reason that dominant countries are by definition the beneficiaries of the structure of the financial status quo. That is why the Trump decision is so remarkable – and so historically significant.

“The U.S. economy is doing quite well,” said Mark Sniderman, former executive vice-president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. “Unemployment is low, inflation is near its long-term goal. We don’t need much now.”

Canada releases list of U.S. goods targeted for retaliatory tariffs, including food, appliances and military gear

Like Canada, Mexico (with US$324.3-billion in purchases of American goods in 2022) faces a 25-per-cent tariff on most goods, while China (US$150.4-billion) faces a 10-per-cent duty. Canada and Mexico both plan retaliatory tariffs, with uncertain implications for their own economies.

“There are doubts whether tariff retaliation is the way to go, but it’s hard to come up with an economic weapon that punishes one side and not the other,” said Christopher Ragan, a McGill University economist. “It’s not as if there is some deep economically coherent reason behind the Trump decision. This may simply be a case of someone who wants this because he wants it. He’s wrong on almost everything he says about economics, but that’s not the point.”

Mr. Ragan said that the 1971 American departure from the gold standard may not have been a mistake in the long run, but it was disruptive and the global transition to the new economic world order was slow and painful. It immediately remade global trade patterns and transformed global monetary policy – unilaterally and, as Jeffrey Garten, author of a book on the so-called “Nixon Shock” and the dean emeritus of the Yale School of Management, put it, “with enormous force.” Some economists argue that it led to the stagflation – a combination of stagnant growth and inflation – that beset Mr. Nixon’s country for the entire decade.

But in both the Nixon and Trump cases, the American president rebuffed Canadian pleas for special treatment based on the “special relationship” that presidents and prime ministers had celebrated for decades. (Mr. Trump has made no such declarations. Mr. Nixon did deliver an encomium for warm Canadian-American relations but in his 1972 address to Parliament he slipped in 10 ominous words: “Each nation must define the nature of its own interests.” Unknowingly but implicitly, Mr. Trump made good on that warning this month.)

In a 2018 essay in the journal Policy Options, the Canadian historian Jennifer Levin Bonder, now of Western Washington University, speculated why Canada – the only major country that had spent most of the postwar period with a floating exchange rate – was unable to win an exemption to the Nixon import surcharge.

“Possibly because Nixon viewed Canada as unco-operative and a contributor to America’s woes,” she wrote. “Possibly because Canada did not support the Vietnam War. The attitude of Secretary of the Treasury John Connally was that ‘Foreigners are out to screw us. Our job is to screw them first.’ ”

Short form: Nations have interests. Not friends.
 
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Access to our banking sector can be an area of discussion to secure permanent trade/tariff peace, but it would be a mistake to sellout our banking sector for a 1 month tariff delay.


Aren’t those last two bolded sentences contradictory? Hassett says to focus on the plain language of the executive order (which is all about fentanyl and border security) and not view it as a trade war, yet Trump is the one saying the number one issue is balancing out trade. And now Trump is raising the issue of access to our banking sector to resolve the tariffs. It’s not Canada that’s misunderstanding the point of the executive order that’s supposed to be focused on border security, it’s Trump.
I'm sure that if our Beloved PM has sent the CAF to patrol some key, known illegal crossing points and instead of spending only 1$ billion in 'new' spending over 5+yrs, we'd be having a different conversation here.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Team Red is doing whatever it can to unnecessarily pull on CDN heartstrings in order TO INCREASE THEIR CHANCES of winning or not being massacred in the upcoming election. ANY new border controls/money/enforcement will NOT sit well with their left of centre party supporters.
 
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