CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Cloud Cover]

Paul Martin Jr never managed the books of a small business and he was head and shoulders among the top 2 or 3 Min of Finance we’ve had.

He had much better help than Carney will ever have because the purpose of Chrétiens first mandate was to cut, cut and cut and not performatively act restrained while racking up deficits. And to be very clear, any government in power at that time would have had to do the same hence the old saying “Stay Alive til 95”. There is (or was) a fair bit of academic and professional opinion that the budgets of 1994 and 1995 were the most profound public policy events in Canadian history since Confederation because there was wide acceptance that there is no bottomless pit if spending and taxation. That notion died completely in Parliament in November 2015 and we have been sunk ever since.

 

[MilEME09]

His monetary policies and his net zero zealotry has trashed the economy of Britain.

Brexit had a bigger influence on that than anything else, and many economists have stayed Britain would of been worse off without him.

And trudeau was a part time drama teachers assistant and freeland was a journalist who blew $10 million dollars of Reuters money before she was asked to resign. PP is probably the most astute politician in Parliament and most of the country is ready to give him possibly, the largest mandate in modern history

Never said either were the best picks either, but if we want someone who understands economics, the current cpc isn't it. Out of anyone with any economic sense we have a couple mortgage brokers, a couple with masters in economics, but not much else. No one with the experience running a major company that would help. Imfact the majority are career politicians with no experience in anything outside politics which gives no favour's to the CPC.

In 2014 the CPC joke was Trudeau's "just not ready" but looking over the entire shadow cabinet I would say that about the CPC right now. The have no experience to draw upon to have strong cabinet ministers who have real world experience to draw upon that some of you are blasting carney for as a counter point to me.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Brexit had a bigger influence on that than anything else, and many economists have stayed Britain would of been worse off without him.

Never said either were the best picks either, but if we want someone who understands economics, the current cpc isn't it. Out of anyone with any economic sense we have a couple mortgage brokers, a couple with masters in economics, but not much else. No one with the experience running a major company that would help. Imfact the majority are career politicians with no experience in anything outside politics which gives no favour's to the CPC.

In 2014 the CPC joke was Trudeau's "just not ready" but looking over the entire shadow cabinet I would say that about the CPC right now. The have no experience to draw upon to have strong cabinet ministers who have real world experience to draw upon that some of you are blasting carney for as a counter point to me.

You're seriously advocating to keep the liberals in charge of government?

 

[Good2Golf]

Paul Martin Jr never managed the books of a small business and he was head and shoulders among the top 2 or 3 Min of Finance we’ve had.

Perhaps the time he spent running Canada Steamship Lines helped?

 

[RangerRay]

I’ve heard from a few people who were leaning Tory who are now really interested in Carney because he’s a “money guy”.

These people aren’t super partisan so don’t pay attention to this stuff like we do. They don’t pay attention to the fact that all of Trudeau’s people back him or all the “Net Zero” stuff. If you asked them what Net Zero was, they’d say it was fishing without a net. They fall in the majority of voters.

 

[McG]

JD Vance coming in Hot … and it’s ugly for the policy missteps of Canadian Team Red:

None of those items are tied to the stated casus bello of "trade deficit is too high."

This shows that their messaging is all over the place and is not at all about correcting policy problems.

This is petty revenge and is amounting to the U.S. cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.

The Trump admin has adopted Russia’s firehose of excrement in the information domain. They spray a whole lot of conflicting messages and let the useful idiots propagate personal favourites.

Team Trump does not care about “team red” nor “team blue” in Canada. He has even made disparaging comments of both party leaders, so if you think colour of government is a factor, you are going to be disappointed with the results of any change.

The US has no legitimate grievance to avenge in Canada. So the tariffs are not revenge. They are bullying, and an effort to exert/demonstrate US dominance over smaller countries. This is also a testing the waters phase to see how much they can get away with. Will the international community rally, or can he pick apart targets piecemeal?

 

[QV]

Carney would be an excellent Minister of Finance -

He’s basically been Trudeau’s finance whisperer for some time. He is committed to offshoring energy, he is committed to the climate cult. He would be a disaster.

 

[QV]

We should slowly start cutting off the power we supply to the eastern seaboard. Do something like a hour a day (with lots of warning as to when it is happening), slowly extending the amount of time it takes.

We would have to be careful with that though, they might actually see that as an existential threat.

I think they already see a national security threat. CCP, sympathetic to Hamas, an expanding cartel run drug network….

 

[Remius]

We should slowly start cutting off the power we supply to the eastern seaboard. Do something like a hour a day (with lots of warning as to when it is happening), slowly extending the amount of time it takes.

We would have to be careful with that though, they might actually see that as an existential threat.

Despite me cheering on Ford on this not sure that is wise. Trump has a made up emergency excuse to impose tariffs we don’t want to give him real reasons to take further steps.

 

[brihard]

Despite me cheering on Ford on this not sure that is wise. Trump has a made up emergency excuse to impose tariffs we don’t want to give him real reasons to take further steps.

Concur. I spoke to this yesterday evening. Nothing that would encourage invocation of the term ‘blockade’.

 

[lenaitch]

We should slowly start cutting off the power we supply to the eastern seaboard. Do something like a hour a day (with lots of warning as to when it is happening), slowly extending the amount of time it takes.

We would have to be careful with that though, they might actually see that as a existential threat.

Be careful what you wish for. It seems in 2024 we, particularly BC and Quebec, were doing a lot more importing than exporting. BC cites lack of precipitation; it's not clear if Quebec is the same reason.

(you can slides the scale in the upper right to change years)

CER – Market Snapshot: Electricity trade trends affected by recent low precipitation

Market Snapshot: Electricity trade trends affected by recent low precipitation

www.cer-rec.gc.ca

 

[lenaitch]

The Trump admin has adopted Russia’s firehose of excrement in the information domain. They spray a whole lot of conflicting messages and let the useful idiots propagate personal favourites.

Team Trump does not care about “team red” nor “team blue” in Canada. He has even made disparaging comments of both party leaders, so if you think colour of government is a factor, you are going to be disappointed with the results of any change.

The US has no legitimate grievance to avenge in Canada. So the tariffs are not revenge. They are bullying, and an effort to exert/demonstrate US dominance over smaller countries. This is also a testing the waters phase to see how much they can get away with. Will the international community rally, or can he pick apart targets piecemeal?

And with Trump the message is a moving target. Sometimes it's in retaliation for the 'massive flow of illegal drugs and immigrants', sometimes it's military spending, and sometimes it's simply a way to raise revenue so he can cut taxes, and all the appeasements we are trying to do are irrelevant.

 

[brihard]

Premier Doug Ford has announced that Ontario will be blocking US companies out of bidding on provincial contracts, potentially a loss of $10b a year in business (something something trade balance). He’s also ‘ripping up’ Ontario’s $100m contract with Elon Musk’s Starlink to provide satellite internet to more remote parts of Ontario.

Ontario rips up $100M Starlink contract ahead of U.S. tariffs

Ontario Premier Doug Ford is announcing that the province will rip up its $100 million contract with Elon Musk’s Starlink ahead of U.S. President Donald Trump’s incoming 25 per cent tariffs.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Czech_pivo]

He’s basically been Trudeau’s finance whisperer for some time. He is committed to offshoring energy, he is committed to the climate cult. He would be a disaster.

Sorry, I'm referring to him being the caliber of a Min of Fin over a PM. PM would be the case of being promoted 1 level higher than your abilities.
I do not agree with the vast majority of his CDN public policies but in terms of understanding the responsibilities and role of a Min of Fin he would be excellent. The 'right' PM would keep him in line and ensure that he followed the economy policies as directed by the PM.
Just because one doesn't agree with his economic policies (which I don't) does not mean that he would not be a good Min of Fin. I tend to give credit where credit is due, regardless if I agree with the political or economic policy. Hence my belief that Paul Martin Jr was an excellent Min of Fin, I may not agree with a majority of the policies that he enacted but I do believe that he did his job very very well and had the respect of the business markets - which matters an awful lot.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Despite me cheering on Ford on this not sure that is wise. Trump has a made up emergency excuse to impose tariffs we don’t want to give him real reasons to take further steps.

Would NOT be a good idea - Americans would take that as a direct threat to their economic security and the repercussions on us would be swift and far reaching.

 

[Quirky]

He’s basically been Trudeau’s finance whisperer for some time. He is committed to offshoring energy, he is committed to the climate cult. He would be a disaster.

That's what Canadians want. Run this country off the fiscal cliff while leaving all our natural resources in the ground.

 

[YZT580]

Just as a side note, Gorbachev was Minister of Agriculture in the old SU before becoming numéro uno.
Things in the old didn’t turn out to well for him….

I wouldn't say that. He didn't fall out of a window....

 

[YZT580]

That's what Canadians want. Run this country off the fiscal cliff while leaving all our natural resources in the ground.

I beg to differ. If that was what Canadians really wanted Trudeau would not have handed in his notice and PP would not be sitting at the top of the polls. All most Canadians simply wanted was their 2 weeks at the cottage/campground, free medicare, dental or whatever as promised by their MP and presented by the TorStar as being their entitlement. They were promised a green utopia and didn't really notice that it was Alberta's oil our natural resources that was paying for it all. They were too naïve (and I am being polite) to connect resources and prosperity. After all wind and sun are free resources. Reality has bitten them in the ass, full stop

 

[Kirkhill]

Both of these articles are required reading.

Opinion: How are we so befuddled at U.S. tariffs, when it’s all been so obvious?

Why this U.S. administration applauds tariffs should not be a secret. U.S. President Donald Trump’s chief economist Stephen Miran has been rather explicit

www.theglobeandmail.com

Not since Nixon has a U.S. president set in motion such a significant transformation of global economics

In both the Nixon and Trump cases, the efforts of Canadian prime ministers – then Pierre Trudeau, now Justin Trudeau – to win concessions were flicked away

www.theglobeandmail.com

There is a plan. It is being worked. And it does tie all the pieces together.

This is no spur of the moment action. This is not dependent on the whim of POTUS47.

....

Trump has said many things. And it is possible for many things to be true simultaneously.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trump-all-tariff-policy-to-replace-income-tax.html

...

Against this backdrop are the separate issues of long term Canada US relations and the bipartisan attitude towards Canada in the US - and I suggest 2% Defence, Arctic Security, Immigration Controls (ours, not his) and Border Controls as well as Canada-China relations all fall into that category.

Then, layered on top of that is the Trump-Trudeau dynamic.

....

The articles at the top reference Churchill's return to the Gold Standard Pound in 1925, the Bretton Woods agreement of 1944 and the Nixon repudiation of the Gold Standard in 1973. In all cases Canada suffered and recovered. Sometimes the recovery was longer and more painful than others. But the effects were global and long lasting.

 

[Quirky]

I beg to differ. If that was what Canadians really wanted Trudeau would not have handed in his notice and PP would not be sitting at the top of the polls. All most Canadians simply wanted was their 2 weeks at the cottage/campground, free medicare, dental or whatever as promised by their MP and presented by the TorStar as being their entitlement. They were promised a green utopia and didn't really notice that it was Alberta's oil our natural resources that was paying for it all. They were too naïve (and I am being polite) to connect resources and prosperity. After all wind and sun are free resources. Reality has bitten them in the ass, full stop

We shall see in the next election if Canadians have learned their lesson. Until then, it's the status-quo.