CadetPat field uniform

[yoman]

Where to start.

Now, as i have stated. i think the CADETPAT is a great idea, it does give distinction and pride in a cadet uniform but until they change the dress regs for Air, it sits as a civi pattern, which is fine just no cadet slip ons or head dress is to be worn. And at my unit the vest would probably be "required".

hope that clears things up....... Laughing at somone because they asked another "guest" for further details about profile info : ? grow up.


cheers

PV

Wow I have never seen a cadet been required to wear a vest because he is wearing civie camouflage clothing. I would probably laugh seeing it myself.

 

[Silent]

Sorry, i guess i should make a few corrections. At MY sqn, cadets are told to bring any clothing they like, ie: civvies/warm clothing. We do not give the cadets options to purchase combats, therefor if they bring any, they bring their own, that they themselves paid for. Thus, it is not a issued uniform, so it is civvies.

    Also, maybe my sqn isn't as strict as yours about bush weekend attire, so if cadets at my sqn wish to wear imiation CADPAT or any other type of camouflage, we have no problem letting them do so. If they want to go out in the bush and "play army" why not let them? it's harmless, and lets them get just that much more fun out of a bush weekend, and isn't that why us instructors are there? To make sure the cadets have fun while they are learning? I beleive that it is just harmless fun, and if they enjoy it, why not let them do it? It doesnt harm anyone.

 

[Dane]

Finally some voices of reason! CADETPAT is an awesome option for Army Cadets, and was made for a reason. Do you think the ACL would work with D Cdts to create a suitable uniform for Cadets if it was going to be a grotesque violation of the CATOs? (I'm speaking on the Army side of the house.)

Everyone on army.ca says "playing army" when it comes to the field uniforms. Have you ever considered that uniformity and functionality come into play? We could wear civis instead of our CF Cadet uniform, too? Really, we're just "playing army" in that too.

 

[PViddy]

Mr. Silent,

first off, thanks for filling out your profile, now we can see that you being a cadet actually have some experience with the CCM, the clarification of which, was all that requested in the first place.

Regarding the dubbed "combats" if you read CATO 55-04 (the link posted in a previous post) you will find the section authorized optional uniforms-non public funds.  Under this section it describes what uniforms are authorized for wear, even though they are not issued through the supply system.
Listed is "CF combat clothing" although it is not issued, it is very much classified as a uniform and not as civi clothing as you stated.  The camo pattern of other countries or CADPAT look alike patterns would be classified as a civi patttern however, thus referring to my previous post, not entitled to wear cadet slip ons, head dress etc.

Also, you may have miscommunicated what you Sqn. actually does on an FTX but in Air Cadets today "playing soldier" or conducting training with any reference to war etc. are not allowed anymore.  Yes, it sounds cheesy but the orders are very clear.  So in short, your harmless fun is not what you should be doing on a weekend.

regards

pv

 

[Kaziklu]

Now I realize that I don't have my profile filled out thus I apperently have no opinion...

But would not the CATO be revised should CADETPAT which is currently on hold from offically being adopted due to the inability to get the fabric across the boarder cheaply. Thus the CADETPAT is a civilian look alike at the current moment if anyone happens to actually have it.

That is a mute point I would think..

However if the Army Cadet League offically adopts it, then it would make sense that the CATO would be revised to included as offical wear.. personal opinion from what I have read on the subject. 

 

[Dane]

The fabric issue was with the old company which has since folded.

 

[Kaziklu]

I was under the impression that the reason CANCAV folded was the issue with duty costs.. but I can't remember where I had read it.. no worries either way.. I've been back involved with the CCM for only 6 weeks now...and I'm still updating my self on the happening of the last 8 years.. So I'm bound to get something mixed up with it all going in my brain so fast.

 

[Dane]

It was duty on the fabric, they also had a ton of back orders never filled etc. Total gong show. Now it's run by a member of the ACL adding a certain level of accountability. Every cadets from 2381 thats ordered it has gotten it with in 2 weeks so they're doing well in that respect.

 

[Kaziklu]

Very cool. Then that would mean that it would be logical to assume that in the near future the CATO (at least for the Army Cadets) would be amended yes no?

Actually I just double checked and it has been listed as authorized wear now listed as Field Uniform and Combat boots. 46-01 17f for Army Cadets.

However why peoplekeep quoting 55-04 is beyond me as it is a Air Cadet specific CATO and the Air Cadets have not been Authorized to purchase the Army Cadet Field Uniform (CADETPAT is an unofficial designation I would assume) and it wearing with Cadet insignia is authorized as optional wear, as I previously stated, under CATO 46-06 17. f.

 

[Dane]

Pacific Region's reason for wanting us to wear cadet slip ons extends from the obcious, identification, but also insurance. Everyone loves insurance claims

 

[Kaziklu]

It make total sense as well as its rank as well

I think insurance is also part of the reason the Marpat is used. If I recall MARPAT was designed for beach landings which is why there is more Sandy tan colours in the design then with US ARMY Woodland or CADPAT, thus in a Forest situation it's much easier to see a cadet while maintain cool factor to get them to buy it... (though that my just be rumour and speculation)

For Air Cadets to be in Digipats they have to where something to make them more visible... nor can they wear Slips on anything but CF OD.

The Army Cadet CATO say the same thing but it is specifically listed the the Field Dress and CF OD and CADPAT are the only things Slips are to be worn on. And says it over two sections of 46-01 16, 17.f. but now Hit-me vests are ever needed

Where as for Air Cadets have only CF OD/CADPAT which they are to where Slips with. anything else is not to have slips put on them.. and if in the field may require Hit-me vests (obviously insurance reasons) CATO 55-04 16.e

And of course Sea Cadets make no mention of what is and isn't authorized for wear outside of the C-1 through 4 style dress.

So I think the Conclusion of this would be easy to see.

the Army Cadet League decided that a Field Dress uniform for Army Cadets (much like in the past) was needed. The choose a pattern that, possibly was easier to see in forested environment and in a digital pattern similar to CADPAT for LCF to encourage their purchase. They are not issued through public funds and the CATO revised to allow for the Field Dress to be worn with Slips.

 

[Dane]

You should have seen that CadetPAT at Vernon. A long held misconception is that Vernon has buildings. It does not. It's actually large accumulations of dust. The CadetPAT blends right into it and it's very hard to see.

Here in Vancouver with our awesome rain forest MARPAT just like you said isn't the best for cam/concealment.

 

[ouyin2000]

I feel, and i try to enforce this, that any type of military combat camouflage uniform, be it the old ODs, new CADPAT, or german flecktarn, etc, should have some sort of identifying tabs or badges or whatever on it, saying that the person wearing it is a cadet. It may be civilian clothing under the CATOs, but someone could easily mistake them for a military member, so a simple cadet slip on, or brassard works wonders

 

[Kaziklu]

it's not that something like flecktarn is going to cause someone to mistake a Cadet as a member of the military... it's that they might mistake them as a Representative of the Nation the Uniform is designed to emulate, or a DND endorsement of that design. Which is why the CATO is written that way.

If Cadets wish to go out in the field with their slips on then CF OD, or the Field Dress would be proper.

And when you think that Canada unlike the US, Britain, Oz, or New Zealand does not charge any money for Cadets.. so it really shouldn't be to much for the cadets to want to put up 120-140 dollars for a full set of Cadetpat field dress or CF OD's.

(Not always possible obviously but in most cases there shouldn't be flecktarn in the field.. if they are going to buy Surplus at least by Canada's... Never understood it)

I'll go back to lurking now

 

[ouyin2000]

I have a cadet who used to wear flecktarn, they now have OD combats ;D That's why I used the example

 

[PViddy]

Yes, 55-04 is Air Cadet specific.  Army cadets are totally different.  55-04 was mentioned before because the topic at hand was whether Air Cadets would wear tthe same thing.  It's a good idea, maybe few years down the road once they get the Army program sorted out nationally.

cheers

PV

 

[Kaziklu]

Sorry it was late and I was confused for a moment.. I had missed your post in reference so I didn't specify. I was referring to much earlier by Bean saying it was the most clear..where as the Army Cadet regs are fairly clear.

I agree with you statements about it being interesting to see if 55-04 is revised for the use of slip ons.

Sorry about the confusion.

 

[1feral1]

It make total sense as well as its rank as well

I think insurance is also part of the reason the Marpat is used. If I recall MARPAT was designed for beach landings which is why there is more Sandy tan colours in the design then with US ARMY Woodland or CADPAT, thus in a Forest situation it's much easier to see a cadet while maintain cool factor to get them to buy it... (though that my just be rumour and speculation)

The MARPAT used on these cadet uniforms is infact "MARPAT Woodland Pattern". It also comes in a desert format, which you can see on the news most nights.

Insurance aand seeing cadets in the bush is nonsense, and the pattern was developed for generic use in all areas less desert conditions. Beach landings have nothing to do with it. Yes, rumour is correct, and this one bleeds out right here and now.

I took the top pic about 10 days ago, and this is a Marine wearing his MARPAT Woodland, as he is examining an Indonesian SS2 V1 rifle as the Indonesian Kopasus soldier looks on.

Below is the US Army's ACU. These guys were getting a "soldier's five" on Australia's F88 Austeyr rifle. Note the Ranger in the old GI woodland cam. The US Army troops I was with had mixed qtys of the new ACU and the old GI woodland.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[PViddy]

Sorry about the confusion. 

No worries 

awesome pics Wes, is that you in the DPM ?  ;D


cheers

PV

 

[1feral1]

Nope, here is me on the left.

Cheers,

Wes