Attempted assassination of Donald Trump 13 July 2024

[KevinB]

Police departments will throw them in a car and grudgingly buy new ones eight years later.

Yeah, which isn’t exactly a good policy. I’ve seen a lot of cracked plates over the years - and some entities went to coated steel plates just for that reason.

When I fly with plates, I try to sandwich them inside soft gear inside a hard case.

Down here a lot of hospitals will give free X-rays of your plates to LE/Gov personnel.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Can anyone with some experience shed any light on this timeline - is it normal, is it too long, are there too many unknowns to comment accurately?

"From the time Crooks fired his first shot to the gunman being killed was just 26 seconds, according to law enforcement officials. Eleven seconds after the first shot, Secret Service counter snipers acquired their target -- and 15 seconds after that, Crooks was shot dead."

Secret Service spotted Trump rally shooter on roof 20 minutes before gunfire erupted

Twenty minutes passed between the time USSS snipers first spotted Crooks on the roof and the time shots were fired at the former president, new information shows.

abcnews.go.com

 

[KevinB]

Can anyone with some experience shed any light on this timeline - is it normal, is it too long, are there too many unknowns to comment accurately?

"From the time Crooks fired his first shot to the gunman being killed was just 26 seconds, according to law enforcement officials. Eleven seconds after the first shot, Secret Service counter snipers acquired their target -- and 15 seconds after that, Crooks was shot dead."

Secret Service spotted Trump rally shooter on roof 20 minutes before gunfire erupted

Twenty minutes passed between the time USSS snipers first spotted Crooks on the roof and the time shots were fired at the former president, new information shows.

abcnews.go.com

The ABC article is interesting as it has some timelines that hadn't been previously released.

Person of Interest is nothing significantly remarkable though -- there are often dozens if not more around any sort of Presidential/Former Presidential venue.

The rest of the article does a pretty good job explaining the delays and issues faced. Those building's were the responsibility of Butler PD and SO, - so an Armed person on the roof really should not have been concerning - until the shots got fired.

Furthermore even if the CS North Team had been in a position to engage Crooks earlier, one needs to remember they are Federal LE, and not 007. There has to be an articulable threat to use lethal force --- most of the time CS observes "odd folks" radios it in, and they are picked up by LE and detained, so lethal force doesn't need to get used.

Trees ended up blocking CS North and as a result the slightly further away CS South Team engaged the would be assassin.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The ABC article is interesting as it has some timelines that hadn't been previously released.

Person of Interest is nothing significantly remarkable though -- there are often dozens if not more around any sort of Presidential/Former Presidential venue.

The rest of the article does a pretty good job explaining the delays and issues faced. Those building's were the responsibility of Butler PD and SO, - so an Armed person on the roof really should not have been concerning - until the shots got fired.

Furthermore even if the CS North Team had been in a position to engage Crooks earlier, one needs to remember they are Federal LE, and not 007. There has to be an articulable threat to use lethal force --- most of the time CS observes "odd folks" radios it in, and they are picked up by LE and detained, so lethal force doesn't need to get used.

Trees ended up blocking CS North and as a result the slightly further away CS South Team engaged the would be assassin.

I guess what I’m trying to understand is this, what was the shooter doing in those 11 secs before he was ‘acquired’ by Team Blues snipers? Was he in the process of reloading? Was he banging his fist in angry for missing? Was he attempting to back away from his position in order to try and escape? What about the extra 15 secs he got after he was acquired by Team Blues snipers?
26 secs seems like a significant amount of time from his last shot and his death.

 

[PuckChaser]

If you place that timeline over the video, his first 3 shots are in about 3-4 seconds and Trumps bodyguards arrive. That leaves 7-8 seconds where his primary target is down and likely looking for alternates or to escape. That's not a ton of time for someone that appears to be an average shot and an amateur to figure out what to do.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Maybe being an amateur, he hung around to check his handywork or if he could get another shot at Trump.

 

[OldSolduer]

Maybe being an amateur, he hung around to check his handywork or if he could get another shot at Trump.

IIRC from the snipers I knew they always had a exfil route at least planned. Not take a shot and say "oops we didn't think about getting out of here".

 

[Haggis]

IIRC from the snipers I knew they always had a exfil route at least planned. Not take a shot and say "oops we didn't think about getting out of here".

Real sniper, yes. This dude wasn't a pro. I'll admit I'm on vacation and working through a 'to do" list and catching up on sleep so I haven't read absolutely everything that's come out so far on this guy and his plan or lack thereof. Just posting over coffee, and on breaks between chores and trips to the fridge.

From what I've seen so far there's been no evidence of detailed preparations or recce (or "recon" as this did happen in the US). It's almost seems like he thought "I'm going to bring dad's rifle in hopes of getting a shot at big orange".

Fishbone Jones has put forward the most likely theory in my mind. This guy thinking "Did I get him?" "Damn, he's still moving!" Trying to line up another shot, followed by the sound of his head exploding.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

IIRC from the snipers I knew they always had a exfil route at least planned. Not take a shot and say "oops we didn't think about getting out of here".

You're not dealing with professionals though.

 

[jackamela]

You're not dealing with professionals though.

Fairly explosive revelations - if they are subsequently verified - from Senator Josh Hawley just now.

He says he has whistleblowers coming to him saying that the USSS were not provoding anything like appropriate protection, having deemed the event a "loose security event" and that the SS detail were not in fact properly trained and experienced SS.

Will be interesting to see where that goes....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Fairly explosive revelations - if they are subsequently verified - from Senator Josh Hawley just now.

He says he has whistleblowers coming to him saying that the USSS were not provoding anything like appropriate protection, having deemed the event a "loose security event" and that the SS detail were not in fact properly trained and experienced SS.

Will be interesting to see where that goes....

I was speaking of the shooter, not LE.

 

[dapaterson]

Fairly explosive revelations - if they are subsequently verified - from Senator Josh Hawley just now.

He says he has whistleblowers coming to him saying that the USSS were not provoding anything like appropriate protection, having deemed the event a "loose security event" and that the SS detail were not in fact properly trained and experienced SS.

Will be interesting to see where that goes....

What's explosive about that? Under what circumstances is the USSS mandated to provide what levels of security to either a former POTUS or a current presidential candidate? What was the intelligence informed threat assessment?

 

[jackamela]

I was speaking of the shooter, not LE.

Yep, understood. And those are two very distinct aspects of this.

What I find interesting is the confluence of a (presumably) opportunist shooter and the 'hole in the fence' he was able to exploit due to what may turn out to have been severe negligence on the USSS part.

 

[jackamela]

What's explosive about that? Under what circumstances is the USSS mandated to provide what levels of security to either a former POTUS or a current presidential candidate? What was the intelligence informed threat assessment?

Obviously I am not on the inside track and so I cannot speculate about the specific intelligence informed threat assessment.

What I find extraordinary is how Trump could possibly be deemed by the USSS to be of low risk of an assassination attempt - which is what Hawley is alleging.

 

[dapaterson]

And again, what is the USSS mandate in this?

 

[jackamela]

And again, what is the USSS mandate in this?

The USSS mandate would be to protect the lives of US political leaders, including the President and former Presidents by providing them with appropriate security at public events.

Trump is a former US President.

Whether they provided him with appropriate security is subject to a current investigation.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Any way you look at it leaving a ladder up to an insecure roof with a 150 meter open shot to a presidential candidate is beyond negligent.

If this was a scene from a movie everyone would laugh at the poor writing and absurdity of the notion.

 

[dapaterson]

The USSS mandate would be to protect the lives of US political leaders, including the President and former Presidents by providing them with appropriate security at public events.

Trump is a former US President.

Whether they provided him with appropriate security is subject to a current investigation.

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[Haggis]

And again, what is the USSS mandate in this?

Under US law, the USSS will provide protection to former presidents for their lifetime unless they decline protection. They will also provide protection to presidential candidates within 120 days on an election unless the candidate declines protection. In both cases, the protection is coordinated between the USSS state and local law enforcement.

 

[dapaterson]

Under US law, the USSS will provide protection to former presidents for their lifetime unless they decline protection. They will also provide protection to presidential candidates within 120 days on an election unless the candidate declines protection. In both cases, the protection is coordinated between the USSS state and local law enforcement.

So you're saying local LE carries responsibility on this space. Not just the USSS.