Anti-war protesters get fast start on PM
- Thread starter JasonH
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Right thats it. Im gonna go down to parliment tommarow and im gonna protest the protesters. Im gonna make a website called StopProtestingOurMilitaryThereDoingNothingWrong.ca
... Now to think of some slogans...
... Now to think of some slogans...
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Protesters are a fact of life boys and girls and right now Iraq is flavour of the month to the granola brigade.
Give it time and they‘ll discover some obscure tree sloth in the Amazon endangered by a multi national corportaion and they‘ll all leave us alone for a couple of months.
Hey I‘m not going to bore you with how much fun it was wearing a uniforn in the late 1970‘s early 1980‘s and getting called a "baby burning warmongering facist" on a regular basis (thanks sis BTW).
What I do find almost funny is the naivety of the present generation of profesional protesters. It‘s almost like they discovered an old photo of their baby boomer parents in the 1960s and decided to try it.
Kind of like the "meet you for a latte at Starbucks and then we‘ll go and protest the WTO."
Yeah they p!ss me off with both their self rightousness and their ignornance, but it‘s not worth the effort getting worked up over them. The twits who held a protest outside the 3 PPCLI Bronze Star Medal ceremony are one example. Those idiots who habitually show up here in Toronto demanding the Mayor turn Moss Park and Fort York into homeless shelters (mind the homeless, excuse me address challenged, would love FYA with all its bars) are another.
They just don‘t get it. Try arguing with them and using such concepts as logic, and examples from the real world and they get all defensive and start quoting their holy writ. Trust me I‘ve done it, and those that know my background just stare at me as if I have two heads. One actually called me the most dangerous thing she‘d ever met " a redneck with a genius IQ." I took it as a compliment.
I do make an exception for some groups. The Vietnam Vets who chose to protest after doing their service in country and groups such as veterans against nuclear weapons etc., rate some respect from me. I may not agree with their point of view but they earned the right to express it.
By that criteria I even respect our forum token semi socialist Che. Hey I‘ll even buy you a beer Che when I‘m in Halifax at the end of the month or if you prefer a latte (The coffee shops at Pizza corner still a going concern?) and talk politics. I may not agree with everything you say here companero but unlike the sandal wearers you in my opinion erasned the right to say it.
Give it time and they‘ll discover some obscure tree sloth in the Amazon endangered by a multi national corportaion and they‘ll all leave us alone for a couple of months.
Hey I‘m not going to bore you with how much fun it was wearing a uniforn in the late 1970‘s early 1980‘s and getting called a "baby burning warmongering facist" on a regular basis (thanks sis BTW).
What I do find almost funny is the naivety of the present generation of profesional protesters. It‘s almost like they discovered an old photo of their baby boomer parents in the 1960s and decided to try it.
Kind of like the "meet you for a latte at Starbucks and then we‘ll go and protest the WTO."
Yeah they p!ss me off with both their self rightousness and their ignornance, but it‘s not worth the effort getting worked up over them. The twits who held a protest outside the 3 PPCLI Bronze Star Medal ceremony are one example. Those idiots who habitually show up here in Toronto demanding the Mayor turn Moss Park and Fort York into homeless shelters (mind the homeless, excuse me address challenged, would love FYA with all its bars) are another.
They just don‘t get it. Try arguing with them and using such concepts as logic, and examples from the real world and they get all defensive and start quoting their holy writ. Trust me I‘ve done it, and those that know my background just stare at me as if I have two heads. One actually called me the most dangerous thing she‘d ever met " a redneck with a genius IQ." I took it as a compliment.
I do make an exception for some groups. The Vietnam Vets who chose to protest after doing their service in country and groups such as veterans against nuclear weapons etc., rate some respect from me. I may not agree with their point of view but they earned the right to express it.
By that criteria I even respect our forum token semi socialist Che. Hey I‘ll even buy you a beer Che when I‘m in Halifax at the end of the month or if you prefer a latte (The coffee shops at Pizza corner still a going concern?) and talk politics. I may not agree with everything you say here companero but unlike the sandal wearers you in my opinion erasned the right to say it.
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Just to strengthen my position...when Canada initially supported sending troops to Afgahn, protestors dumped pink paint on a sherman outside the Halifax armouries. Now ain‘t that somethin‘... Protesting is a right, but being a protestor is more then just "I hate the military". It‘s about knowing wtf your talking about, doing it with purpose. If the people at StopWar.ca could give me one reason why we shouldn‘t be helping the Afgahn people (a good reason..), I might respect them a bit. This is much deeper, this is about everytime i‘ve had some ****head yell at me while im on the way to the armouries...I think my favorite was when the U.S. invaded Iraq, and a guy told me to "go fight for the rich man". WTF !! We wern‘t even in that war !!
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I only had one incident that stays with me. I was at a friends for a xmas party in ‘97. I was due to depart for BMQ a few weeks hence. The people there were mainly friends of her boyfriend; educated UVic crowd. This guy decided to ‘talk‘ to me about my decision to join the Infantry. In front of the assembled, he asks me "why I‘d want to murder innocent women and babies." Here‘s the thing, my girlfriend looked at him as if he was nuts. How was he raised to believe that this was an appropriate thing to say in a conversation with a man he had only met? Not to mention that those around us chuckled and looked to me as if I had to explain myself?
I didn‘t respond, my look summed it up. I was p/o‘d. I was looking for a reason to go anyway, informed my friend that I was off and why. Buddy enjoyed his moment.
I thought to myself that he didn‘t now, nor would he ever get it. He lived in a country where he could say such a thing and be relatively safe as there are laws (which I respect) that prevent me from assaulting his priviledged *** . And that people such as I are a part of the system which ensures that for people such as him.
He doesn‘t need to get it. I do. I can live with that. I also enjoyed that one moment after he asked that when his feeling of safety waivered, seated as he was surrounded by his friends. I stood at that point and there was nothing to be misread in the focus I had upon him. I‘m 6‘4" @ 215 pounds. I don‘t beat on woman, children or priviledged 5‘9" fools.
If they choose disrespect, walk on, carry yourself with pride. If they act, then use your heads and see the day through.
I didn‘t respond, my look summed it up. I was p/o‘d. I was looking for a reason to go anyway, informed my friend that I was off and why. Buddy enjoyed his moment.
I thought to myself that he didn‘t now, nor would he ever get it. He lived in a country where he could say such a thing and be relatively safe as there are laws (which I respect) that prevent me from assaulting his priviledged *** . And that people such as I are a part of the system which ensures that for people such as him.
He doesn‘t need to get it. I do. I can live with that. I also enjoyed that one moment after he asked that when his feeling of safety waivered, seated as he was surrounded by his friends. I stood at that point and there was nothing to be misread in the focus I had upon him. I‘m 6‘4" @ 215 pounds. I don‘t beat on woman, children or priviledged 5‘9" fools.
If they choose disrespect, walk on, carry yourself with pride. If they act, then use your heads and see the day through.
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Turn to the other cheek, that‘s right enzo, if anything they want to get a rise out of you so they can point out your "baby killing streak."
The most frustrating moment I‘ve had that relates to this topic, wasn‘t a protest, it was a university lecture.
I was in a lecture one day, and there were announcements about the rememberance day ceremony the next day, when a girl in the audience shouted out "YEAH CELEBRATE MURDER, WAR IS MURDER."
I think she thought more people would support her(and given the liberal aspect of my university at the time I too thought alot of people would support her) but most people looked like she had crawled out from underneath a rock and was breathing fire.
Danjanou, there are more coffee shops and bars in Halifax than anywheres else in Atlantic Canada, and if you‘d like a romp through the Semi-socialist military infused satiric grey matter that is my brain in person; I‘d be more then welcome to accomodate you.
The most frustrating moment I‘ve had that relates to this topic, wasn‘t a protest, it was a university lecture.
I was in a lecture one day, and there were announcements about the rememberance day ceremony the next day, when a girl in the audience shouted out "YEAH CELEBRATE MURDER, WAR IS MURDER."
I think she thought more people would support her(and given the liberal aspect of my university at the time I too thought alot of people would support her) but most people looked like she had crawled out from underneath a rock and was breathing fire.
Danjanou, there are more coffee shops and bars in Halifax than anywheres else in Atlantic Canada, and if you‘d like a romp through the Semi-socialist military infused satiric grey matter that is my brain in person; I‘d be more then welcome to accomodate you.
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Thunder
You‘re absolutley right...If you want an answer then just start asking them, the ones who organize these farsicle get togethers, who pays their bills.
If they actually told you the truth You would probably be stunned that the government allows it to go on at all. :skull:
i think the reason people say such things is the persistant generalization that members of the armed forces are, more or less, uneducated and joined merely to escape from a poor background. at least, that is the viewpoint held by my mother, and many others i‘ve spoken to.
perhaps another reason (and this is my own personal belief) that you soldiers get labelled "warmongers" is the habit to never back away from a fight. have any of you actually looked at war and thought "gee, i‘m glad the government isn‘t getting involved in that!" i dunno...i‘m not a person who shuns the military, but even i thought that the justification for the second gulf war was pretty sketchy. of course, i knew my opinions mattered not a whit, but this board was generally full of people who thought attacking was a great idea.
now, this may be getting a little off topic, but why was iraq a "great idea" (ridding the world of a tyranical dictator) but things such as a "peace keeping" are spoken with contempt? just a question
perhaps another reason (and this is my own personal belief) that you soldiers get labelled "warmongers" is the habit to never back away from a fight. have any of you actually looked at war and thought "gee, i‘m glad the government isn‘t getting involved in that!" i dunno...i‘m not a person who shuns the military, but even i thought that the justification for the second gulf war was pretty sketchy. of course, i knew my opinions mattered not a whit, but this board was generally full of people who thought attacking was a great idea.
now, this may be getting a little off topic, but why was iraq a "great idea" (ridding the world of a tyranical dictator) but things such as a "peace keeping" are spoken with contempt? just a question
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The only reason protesters bother me is that they p*ss away all the benefits that this society has accorded to them to be social nuisences who generally have no conception of the reality of the situation.
If they believe so firmly in what they protest for, maybe they should show some b*lls and go join the Taliban like John Walker Lyndh. Despite being a terrorist caveman, his conviction alone has earned my respect.
Until these protesters do that, they are nothing but sheep, bleeting in the nice field protected from the wolves by the sheperd.
People like to argue against the war for many reasons, but the fact remains that America‘s war on terror (OIF included) remains the ONLY effort to destroy a foe set against your way of life.
This is probably why most soldiers support the war...the time for talk was swept away on September. Perhaps the protesters have figured a way to reason with wealthy, educated men who would willingly crash planes into buildings, but until they show us, force remains the only method of dealing with them.
For all the anti-war arguments that fly around (I live in Lotusland, so I see it every day), I have yet to see these people present a viable course of alternative action to deal with the problem. They would rather vent frustration on some mythical organization (usually a shadowy extension of the state) that is launching a vicious campaign to conquer the world, steal everybodys money, and strip everybody of their subsidized education. So, I issue a challenge to anyone who does not support the effort to eliminate terrorism.
What should we do?
If they believe so firmly in what they protest for, maybe they should show some b*lls and go join the Taliban like John Walker Lyndh. Despite being a terrorist caveman, his conviction alone has earned my respect.
Until these protesters do that, they are nothing but sheep, bleeting in the nice field protected from the wolves by the sheperd.
nULL, here is your answer
People like to argue against the war for many reasons, but the fact remains that America‘s war on terror (OIF included) remains the ONLY effort to destroy a foe set against your way of life.
This is probably why most soldiers support the war...the time for talk was swept away on September. Perhaps the protesters have figured a way to reason with wealthy, educated men who would willingly crash planes into buildings, but until they show us, force remains the only method of dealing with them.
For all the anti-war arguments that fly around (I live in Lotusland, so I see it every day), I have yet to see these people present a viable course of alternative action to deal with the problem. They would rather vent frustration on some mythical organization (usually a shadowy extension of the state) that is launching a vicious campaign to conquer the world, steal everybodys money, and strip everybody of their subsidized education. So, I issue a challenge to anyone who does not support the effort to eliminate terrorism.
What should we do?
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311
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I think labeling people in the army as "poor" is a thing of the past. Most people either have a degree already or are in the process. Also, as this board proves most people are educated.
Getting rid of Saddam was a good thing because,
A)He was a tyrant
B)He seemed to want to hurt everybody around him
C)He was a threat to our(NATO) security. How much you wanna bet if he got his hands on some badass stuff, he would have given it to Bin Laden?
Getting rid of Saddam was a good thing because,
A)He was a tyrant
B)He seemed to want to hurt everybody around him
C)He was a threat to our(NATO) security. How much you wanna bet if he got his hands on some badass stuff, he would have given it to Bin Laden?
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Hey Che...Timothy‘s on Spring Garden is always good or the Trident on Hollis...
Some of the people I respect the most are sitting on the fence. They won‘t go to a protest because they haven‘t educated themselves enough about the issues. They also won‘t support war for the same reason.
People need to look at both sides of the issue before making judgements and from my experience that hasn‘t been done with protests for the most part. Some are really good and actually research the issues but that‘s few and far between based on my experience. I had a friend who was going on about how UN economic sanctions were hurting the Iraqi people and stuff he completely ignored the fact that the Hussein government was having people killed and violating their human rights everyday. He just chose to ignore it.
Trust me, if you hang around the left-wing University crowd you see some smokin‘ girls. I just wish they were as impressed with DEU‘s as the rest of them
People need to look at both sides of the issue before making judgements and from my experience that hasn‘t been done with protests for the most part. Some are really good and actually research the issues but that‘s few and far between based on my experience. I had a friend who was going on about how UN economic sanctions were hurting the Iraqi people and stuff he completely ignored the fact that the Hussein government was having people killed and violating their human rights everyday. He just chose to ignore it.
Trust me, if you hang around the left-wing University crowd you see some smokin‘ girls. I just wish they were as impressed with DEU‘s as the rest of them
J
John Mac
Guest
Protesters are a fact of life, just like STDs. And, like the example, they are something which can be considered the cost of doing business. While they are most often quite full of it, they , in some ways, represent what we are protecting. They can be compared to drunks in a bar: some of them are quite credible, and others have their heads right up their ar__es. Either way, they are Canadians and whether we like it or not, they are within their rights.
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nbk
Guest
I agree with most of what you are saying, btu I can also see both sides.
I do realize that protesting is "popular" for kids now a days. As you have stated it gives them a greater sense of self, and this is the wrong reason to go protesting.
I do believe that we should be peacekeeping in Afghanistan (and Bosnia, yeah remember Bosnia?) because we participated in that war. We have to finish what we started. If the yanks want to bug out and go fight the other guy, then we should at least stay behind and finish what we started.
However I can also see the other side of the story. Yes the Taliban was backwards to us. Yes they abused women and had what we would consider an archaic system and culture. But people do forget that *it was still their culture*. It does not matter how backwards and "human rights violating" it looks to us, because it is not our country. If they do not like it, they will come live in our country, we do not need to go destroy their culture.
If we left them alone, they would leave us alone.
They would not pose a threat to us.
Think about it for a moment. How would you like it if the Taliban came over here and forced us to live under a strict Islamic system? My guess is that you would not like it. So why are we forcing them to live under what we decide is "right"?
The Taliban did not come to power just because they were the biggest bullies on the block, but because they had support of the public, this is why they were not overthrown by their own people.
I do realize that protesting is "popular" for kids now a days. As you have stated it gives them a greater sense of self, and this is the wrong reason to go protesting.
I do believe that we should be peacekeeping in Afghanistan (and Bosnia, yeah remember Bosnia?) because we participated in that war. We have to finish what we started. If the yanks want to bug out and go fight the other guy, then we should at least stay behind and finish what we started.
However I can also see the other side of the story. Yes the Taliban was backwards to us. Yes they abused women and had what we would consider an archaic system and culture. But people do forget that *it was still their culture*. It does not matter how backwards and "human rights violating" it looks to us, because it is not our country. If they do not like it, they will come live in our country, we do not need to go destroy their culture.
If we left them alone, they would leave us alone.
They would not pose a threat to us.
Think about it for a moment. How would you like it if the Taliban came over here and forced us to live under a strict Islamic system? My guess is that you would not like it. So why are we forcing them to live under what we decide is "right"?
The Taliban did not come to power just because they were the biggest bullies on the block, but because they had support of the public, this is why they were not overthrown by their own people.
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NBK,
I do see your point of view but your line of thought is scary. At what point do you draw the line? In WW2 for example, if it had been known earlier that the Jews were being murdered, would you just say that it‘s part of the German culture and we have no right to interfere? I know it‘s a stretch, but how far is it from a regime that actively seeks out opposition and eliminates it like the Taliban and Saddam. Churchill tried your tactic of "if we leave them alone, they‘ll leave us alone", and it didn‘t work too well. I am an advocate of respecting any particular society and it‘s norms, but there has to be a line where you say enough is enough. The problem in this case is demarcating that line and I don‘t think any one human is qualified enough to decide that, yet someone has to and often it‘s the U.S. making these decisions whether we like it or not.
I do see your point of view but your line of thought is scary. At what point do you draw the line? In WW2 for example, if it had been known earlier that the Jews were being murdered, would you just say that it‘s part of the German culture and we have no right to interfere? I know it‘s a stretch, but how far is it from a regime that actively seeks out opposition and eliminates it like the Taliban and Saddam. Churchill tried your tactic of "if we leave them alone, they‘ll leave us alone", and it didn‘t work too well. I am an advocate of respecting any particular society and it‘s norms, but there has to be a line where you say enough is enough. The problem in this case is demarcating that line and I don‘t think any one human is qualified enough to decide that, yet someone has to and often it‘s the U.S. making these decisions whether we like it or not.
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See that picture I posted above. Maybe I buy into Huntington‘s cultural clash, but when push comes to shove, it becomes us against them. If destroying rabid Islamic sects is what it takes, than so be it. Are you implying that we should lay down and accept these attacks as part of their cultural expression?
The world doesn‘t work that way.
So that Northern Alliance we supported was just a bunch of strangers, right. The Taliban WERE the biggest bullies in an area which has been a turf war since day one. Anti-war crowds seem to forget about the pictures of all those young girls who got to take their veils off and go learn to read and write.
I guess it‘s a dog-eat-dog world. Might equals right, eh. Like I said, if you can give me a better solution, I am all ears.
banning religon would be a good start. getting rid of all forms of religous fundamentalism would benefit everyone. who needs the pope telling people condoms don‘t wory? who needs fanatics crashing planes into buildings or telling women how to treat their bodies (...abortion?)
i dunno, getting rid of religon, while unrealistic, would be the perfect solution if you think about it.
i dunno, getting rid of religon, while unrealistic, would be the perfect solution if you think about it.
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