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Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case

YZT580 said:
He continued, adding that “there is never going to be an absolute one side or another. There are always going to be multiple voices.”  This is Trudeau's failing.  There is only one 'truth' never multiples thereof.  That is why courts decide guilty or innocent.  And I don't believe that he is capable of understanding let alone speaking to the notion of being truthful

Disagree... from a political standpoint.

I'm pro social liberalism but also pro economic conservatism. Unfortunately, out of our two main parties, one is both economically and socially conservative, and the other is both economically and socially liberal. Ok thats a gross generalization, but my point is this. There are a lot of people who think like me in Canada, and we have to decide between the two. Some people will decide that social justice is more important (i.e. it is the "truth") and choose the socially liberal party, while others will see economic prosperity as more important (i.e. the truth) and chose the fiscally responsible party.

To me, that's what Trudeau means by multiple truths. I mean, they're all liars anyway, why get mixed up with the semantics?

The key point is, there is no perfect party, and all of us have to make compromises when we vote. You don't have the right to tell me or anyone what my particular priorities are, and therefore, the truth behind my vote is just as valid as the truth behind yours.
 
Public interest is the first thing that comes to my mind when I think Liberals  :nod:


Justice department memo says Ottawa has wiggle room to allow SNC-Lavalin to bid on federal contracts even if convicted
OTTAWA—The Liberal government could invoke a “public interest” exception that would allow SNC-Lavalin to avoid a 10-year federal contract ban even if it is criminally convicted, according to a justice department memo.

Yet the justice department advice, which had been requested by the Privy Council Office (PCO) but never delivered, says the reasons to grant such an exemption are “narrow.”

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/04/03/justice-department-memo-says-ottawa-has-wiggle-room-to-allow-snc-lavalin-to-bid-on-federal-contracts-even-if-convicted.html
 
Lumber said:
The key point is, there is no perfect party,

There is no Liberal or Conservative way to fix a sewer.  :)

Lumber said:
You don't have the right to tell me or anyone what my particular priorities are, and therefore, the truth behind my vote is just as valid as the truth behind yours.

Until I retired on my 55th birthday, my particular priorities were fair compensation, benefits, pension, staffing and equipment, decent working conditions etc.

Our union had a simple, non-partisan philosophy when endorsing candidates – We supported politicians who supported us.

At the same time, the union respected the right of every member to vote for the candidate(s) of their choice.

No one, including the union, had the right to tell you how to vote.
 
Lumber, glad you added 'from a political' to your statement.  Unfortunately for Trudeau this is not a political issue instead this is an issue where true truth was required and he blew it and has shown that he doesn't give a damn that he did, in fact his attitude indicates that he is totally p****d that the press, whom he thought he had bought, has seen fit to draw attention to his misconduct.  He has no (evident) moral conscience  about either lying or attempting to circumvent the law, demonstrating his contempt for parliament and for the justice system.  He is totally amoral and totally unfit to lead.  Tell me, would the services tolerate an officer who had been caught out in this fashion? 
 
YZT580 said:
Lumber, glad you added 'from a political' to your statement.  Unfortunately for Trudeau this is not a political issue instead this is an issue where true truth was required and he blew it and has shown that he doesn't give a damn that he did, in fact his attitude indicates that he is totally p****d that the press, whom he thought he had bought, has seen fit to draw attention to his misconduct.  He has no (evident) moral conscience  about either lying or attempting to circumvent the law, demonstrating his contempt for parliament and for the justice system.  He is totally amoral and totally unfit to lead.  Tell me, would the services tolerate an officer who had been caught out in this fashion?

Why simply tolerate when you can promote them?
 
Jarnhamar said:
Why would they walk out on Scheer?

I listened to sound bites from some of these young women on the radio this morning.  There was lot about oppression for women and especially women of colour and not conforming to the image of white men in politics or something like that. 

That is your answer.  Those that walked out or turned around would have done so to any white man talking about women in politics.
 
Remius said:
I listened to sound bites from some of these young women on the radio this morning.  There was lot about oppression for women and especially women of colour and not conforming to the image of white men in politics or something like that. 

That is your answer.  Those that walked out or turned around would have done so to any white man talking about women in politics.

Thanks Remius. That takes some of the wind out of my LOL@Trudeau sails since it sounds like they planned to walk our irregardless.
 
Jarnhamar said:
Thanks Remius. That takes some of the wind out of my LOL@Trudeau sails since it sounds like they planned to walk our irregardless.

But it still had an impact when you think about it.  Trudeau is supposed to have been a champion and ally for women.  Regardless of what their motivations were, I still think that there is a full gust blowing in those sails Jarnhammer.
 
Keep in mind the next generation of voters will not have the same brand loyalty previous generation had. How individuals perform will have a great effect. JT has irrevocably damaged his brand with younger voters and at an age where he could have had a long career. JWR comes out of this with a solid brand with the same set of voters and she is young enough to exploit that. Eventually we may see a move towards an Australian model, where the PM serves at the pleasure of their MP's.
 
Cloud Cover said:
This whole "white men" thing is getting boring.

Boring isn't the word I would use.  But it is getting old and tedious.  Tiresome? Annoying?
 
An absolutely excellent article by Paul Wells at McLeans:

POLITICS
In the abandoned ruins of Ottawa
Paul Wells: How did the SNC-Lavalin scandal manage to rattle this government so badly? Because it reveals some truths to Canadians about this Prime Minister.
by Paul Wells Apr 4, 2019

Jody Wilson-Raybould’s and Jane Philpott’s place in or out of the Liberal caucus matters less than most of the two-month SNC-Lavalin drama. A parliamentary caucus is not a rules organization, it’s a trust organization. Liberals no longer trusted the two former ministers, in part because clearly neither trusts the Prime Minister. So out they went. How other people organize their clubs is their concern.

I’ll note a contradiction: in 2002, when the entire country knew Paul Martin was plotting to unseat a sitting Liberal prime minister, Paul Martin continued to sit as a member of the Liberal caucus. Ah yes, some Liberal friends remind me, but that’s because most of the caucus was in on Martin’s scheme. That’s true, and it raises stubborn and recurrent questions about the wisdom of Liberal caucuses. Members of Alcoholics Anonymous sometimes say, “My best thinking brought me here.” A Liberal caucus in the grip of its best thinking is a wonder to behold.

But onward. I’m left with questions from Wilson-Raybould’s recording of her December phone conversation with Michael Wernick, the soon-to-be-former clerk of the Privy Council. Sure, it’s a terrible thing when a woman records her 20th surreal conversation with people who insist they’re not pressuring her. Here’s her penalty: I’ll ignore what she said on that call and listen only to Wernick.

He describes an imminent, pressing economic crisis that has transfixed the Prime Minister of Canada. “Our intelligence from various sources,” he says, is that SNC’s board has asked consulting firms for options that could include “selling out to somebody else, moving—you know, various things.” All of this “seems to be real and not a bluff,” Wernick says.

Trudeau “wants to be able to say he has tried everything within the legitimate toolbox” to avert this disaster. He is “determined” and “firm.” “I think he is going to find a way to get it done one way or another.” He is in “that kinda mood.”

The conversation goes poorly. “I am going to have to report back before he leaves,” Wernick says. “He is in a pretty firm frame of mind about this, so I am a bit worried . . . . I just saw him a few hours ago and this is really important to him.” Fortunately, “He is still around tomorrow.”

And then, according to later replies to inquiries from both the Prime Minister’s Office and Trudeau himself, Wernick never breathed a word about this extraordinary conversation to the Prime Minister. Even though Trudeau was in Ottawa for a day after the clerk’s call with Wilson-Raybould. Even though telephones work in Whistler, where he vacationed following a pre-Christmas trip to Mali. Even though he was in the office for another day, back from holidays, before launching a cabinet shuffle.

What part of this sounds like the work habits of a serious Prime Minister?

If you, dear reader, were determined and firm and looking to get something done one way or another, if you were in that kinda mood, I bet you wouldn’t let three weeks go by without checking in on a file’s progress.

And then, if you switched out the deeply aggravating attorney general for a new one, say a solid white male McGill graduate like you and Gerry Butts—entirely by accident! It’s not as though that was the goal or anything!—I’m betting you wouldn’t let two more months go by without fixing the no-bluff 9,000-job problem.

And yet that’s what Justin Trudeau has done. The so-called deferred prosecution agreement that would have saved SNC from a trial, but that only an attorney general could order the public prosecutor to negotiate, remains available. At this writing, David Lametti hasn’t delivered the public order that would trigger its use. Now, of course, there’s been a lot going on. But was Trudeau only intent on action if he could be bold in secret? Was he only going to save those 9,000 jobs if it was easy? How thrilled are you to learn that a Prime Minister who’s determined and firm and in that kinda mood hasn’t actually done anything to get closer to effective action?

I ask because I’ve been struck by a peculiarity of this whole mess. It’s this: How did this scandal manage to rattle this government so profoundly? And the best answer I can find is this: Because it reveals truths about this Prime Minister that shake many Canadians’ confidence in him....

Read the rest here:

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/in-the-abandoned-ruins-of-ottawa/

:cheers:
 
Easy. Blame Harper. Blame Global Warming. Blame toxic masculinity. Then hire SNC to coordinate the clean up.
 
FSTO said:
I'd hate to see how this team would react to a real crisis like an Ice Storm in the St Lawrence/Ottawa River valleys, Floods in Manitoba or an Earthquake on the West Coast.

Meh, all they have to do is just say go and the system takes over.
 
Another good one from Macleans: https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/why-did-jody-wilson-raybould-have-to-go-because-white-nationalists/
 
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