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Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case

FSTO said:
The Liberals must protect the leader at all costs! Doesn’t that sound a little creepy? Certainly does to me!

Trotting out the likes of Sheila Copps  -who hasn’t been relevant in politics in years and in my opinion a “has been” - seems to me to be a desperate act. This is the worst GoC I’ve ever seen.
 
I listened to the PM’s speech last night on a podcast (cannot stand the sight of him speaking). It’s all about him, it’s always been about him because right now he is the LPC and the thought of anybody else (conservative, NDP , or Green) having access to the levers of power in Canada is something that he and the trained seals in caucus cannot conceive of. No wonder he is an admirer of China. 
 
FSTO said:
The Liberals must protect the leader at all costs! Doesn’t that sound a little creepy? Certainly does to me!

The Liberals are behaving like an abusive controlling husband who lied and cheated on his wife, who is freaking out because the wife read his text messages. How dare she betray his trust like that!

Sheila Copps is one of the mistresses who's lecturing the wife on morales and being obedient.

I never realyl paid attention or noticed Copps before but damn she's nasty.
 
To be honest, her (their) expulsion looks to be caucus driven at this point. 

So they likely gave him a reason and Trudeau is going to be the face of it for sure but I think the caucus had finally had enough of the damage that they probably feel that they are better off without them than with them. 

Someone here said she overplayed her hand.  I agree with that. 

Not disputing the fact that what the PMO and SNC Lavalin is all worse.  But I think that JWRs political aspirations are over regardless of where she tries to land.

Now...I don't think that JT is going to be able to sell any of this to the Canadian Public.  My guess is that the only way he can win next election is that if the opposition makes itself look like a worse option that the LPC.
 
Remius said:
Now...I don't think that JT is going to be able to sell any of this to the Canadian Public.
  The issuance of the DPA will be sold as proof that JWR was wrong and the PM was right.  This may recuperate lost support in Québec.  Will it be enough to push the polls back into Liberal majority territory is anyone's guess.

Remius said:
My guess is that the only way he can win next election is that if the opposition makes itself look like a worse option that the LPC.
The government representative in the Senate has proposed a schedule to see 11 Bills voted on before the house rises.  If successful, the Liberals will be able to say "look how much we've accomplished despite the Opposition's efforts to stop us!"
 
Listening to Minister Champagne: the DPA is on the table if not actually imminent.
 
Remius said:
To be honest, her (their) expulsion looks to be caucus driven at this point. 

So they likely gave him a reason and Trudeau is going to be the face of it for sure but I think the caucus had finally had enough of the damage that they probably feel that they are better off without them than with them. 

Someone here said she overplayed her hand.  I agree with that. 

Not disputing the fact that what the PMO and SNC Lavalin is all worse.  But I think that JWRs political aspirations are over regardless of where she tries to land.

Now...I don't think that JT is going to be able to sell any of this to the Canadian Public.  My guess is that the only way he can win next election is that if the opposition makes itself look like a worse option that the LPC.

She definitely has a future in BC politics and in FN politics. It be interesting if JT has to face her as the head of the AFN.
 
I will repeat myself: The LPC does what's best for the LPC, not what's best for Canada. I cringe, absolutely cringe, every time Trudeau says  "Canadians". He actually means what he and Liberals think is the natural governing party.

From the article: ...." there is only one principle — blind loyalty to the leader.... " and " ...unwilling to sacrifice her principles so readily on the altar of partisanship.... ". Sounds like what was said during the Nuremberg Trials - http://Superior:  Superior orders, often known as the Nuremberg defense, lawful orders or by the German phrase Befehl ist Befehl ("an order is an order"), is a plea in a court of law that a person—whether a member of the military, law enforcement, a firefighting force, or the civilian population—not be held guilty for actions ordered by a superior officer or an official.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-liberals-accomplish-nothing-but-vindictiveness-for-vindictivenesss-sake


The rotting of the Liberal soul
National Post - 3 Apr 19 - Andrew Coyne -
      This is pure vindictiveness

“Ultimately the choice that is before you,” Jody Wilson- Raybould pleaded with her caucus colleagues, in a letter written hours before they were to pass sentence on her, “is about what kind of party you want to be a part of, what values it will uphold, the vision that animates it, and indeed the type of people it will attract and make it up.” But they made that choice long ago. They knew what kind of party they wanted to be a part of from the moment they accepted their nominations; indeed, were they not the type of person that party attracts they would not have been recruited for it. It is the kind of party, and person, that unquestioningly puts loyalty to party before principle — and mercilessly punishes those who do not.

So on the question of whether to expel the former minister of justice and attorney general — along with the former Treasury Board president, Jane Philpott — for the crime of denouncing the attempt, by the prime minister and senior government officials, to interfere with a criminal prosecution, there could have been little doubt how they would vote. Whether they chose to shoot the messengers so spontaneously, over Justin Trudeau’s objections, as some reports have claimed — they were “determined to take the matter into their own hands,” according to a Canadian Press story, as if MPS were so eager to prove their obedience to the leader as to be willing to defy him — or whether they did so under orders doesn’t much matter. The rotting of the soul is the same either way.

We can now see, if it were not already apparent, the moral compass by which the prime minister and his caucus steer. The scandal in the Snc-lavalin affair is, by this reckoning, not the monthslong campaign to subvert the independence of the attorney general and, through her, to force the independent director of public prosecutions to drop charges of fraud and corruption against a longtime Liberal party contributor, but the opposition to it.

Traditional political theory teaches that the executive branch of government is responsible to the legislative. It is now clearer than ever that the reverse more nearly applies: members of the Liberal caucus plainly see it as their role, not to hold the government to account, but rather their fellow MPS — on behalf of the government. When wrongdoing by those high in government is alleged by a pair of whistleblowers, their first thought is to root out the whistleblowers. Even when presented with incontrovertible evidence, in the form of an audio recording, that the clerk of the privy council, Michael Wernick, threatened the former attorney general with dismissal if she did not bend to the PM’S will, and that she repeatedly and explicitly protested against this “political interference” — on both points contrary to his testimony before a parliamentary committee — the prime minister and his camp followers profess themselves outraged, not at what the tape reveals, but that it exists.

No such outrage attended the release of a near- verbatim transcript of a later conversation between the former attorney general and the prime minister, based on notes taken by a person who was not even ( so far as she was aware) privy to the call: the prime minister’s former principal secretary, Gerald Butts. Why is a surreptitiously obtained transcript (which confirms, not confounds, her testimony) acceptable, while a surreptitiously obtained tape is not? The objection would appear to be that the latter is more accurate.

So the charge is a pretext. What has agitated Liberal MPS is not the former attorney general’s recording of a conversation she correctly anticipated would be improper and could have guessed would be denied, or her failure to alert the prime minister at whose behest it had taken place ( and who could not fail to have been informed of its contents), but rather that she has contradicted and embarrassed the leader. Or rather no: I suspect what truly outrages them is the sight of a person of conscience, unwilling to sacrifice her principles so readily on the altar of partisanship. For those who can still remember what that was like, it must be deeply shaming. For the rest, there is only one principle — blind loyalty to the leader — in which cause they are prepared to sacrifice any number of colleagues.

We should understand, not only how noxious this is, but how unusual. Only in Canada can you be kicked out of the party for disobeying the leader — because only in Canada has the party been so wholly subsumed by the leader, to the point that it exists more or less as an extension of his persona. The prime minister of Great Britain has suffered multiple coup attempts, without any such purges. Because in Britain it is understood that the leader serves the party, rather than the other way around.

Yet it is exactly that sort of leader- dominated, centralized politics that created this mess. Only a leader who was effectively accountable to no one could have so lost sight of the relevant ethical boundaries as to attempt to shut down a prosecution — for any reason, let alone the nakedly partisan purposes alleged. Only a leader surrounded by sycophants could have imagined that the past seven weeks of denial, deflection and smears could succeed in rescuing his reputation.

Or perhaps that is not the point. It is often said that the coverup is worse than the crime. Worse than a coverup, however, is the kind of open attempt to confuse the issue we have been witnessing. Since his initial, lawyerly non- denial, the prime minister has not much bothered to pretend he did not do what he is accused of — he merely insists there was nothing wrong with it. The object: to corrupt, not just the administration of justice, but our collective sense of right and wrong.

Still, it’s hard to see what is accomplished by this latest bout of thuggery — not only expelling Wilson- Raybould and Philpott, but revoking their nominations. It seems to be motivated by little more than sheer delight in retribution: vindictiveness for vindictiveness’s sake. And yet they are not one whit diminished by it; only the prime minister is.

- mod edit to add/fix article link -
 
How palatable will a DPA be with this revelation?

SNC-Lavalin insider's bribery allegations spark probe by Crown agency that loaned the firm billions


Export Development Canada has hired outside legal counsel to review some of its dealings with SNC-Lavalin. The review comes after a company insider told CBC News the engineering giant secured billions in loans from the Crown agency over the years, some of which he alleges was intended to pay bribes.

CBC Link

 
I saw this type of fiasco/scenario coming before the election. Back then, I was an outlier. Liars and thieves I said. I got, horrible little man you are, in return. A terrible person for treating liberals as I did/do. I tied them early on to big corporations, shady deals and outright ignorant arrogance. Ridicule followed.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

I am completely ambivalent at these goings on now, dispassionate, so to speak. This was no surprise and it was fullyexpected. The exact scenario may not have been forecast, but the illegalities, smug indifference and ethics violations were writ large from the beginning for anyone that wanted to take anything other than a passing glance or ignored the MSM propaganda machine.

Canadians are still not passionate enough to rid ourselves of these carpetbaggers. Someone else will do it. Bitch and complain while walking around like baboons in heat displaying for the liberals government to take advantage.

I feel vindicated.  ;D
 
This whole thing makes me feel like mamy roles in government must be seperated out, AG should be appointed, not by the PM but by a 2/3 majority of the justice committee. The govoner general should also be less of a formality and more an effective executive branch. While in theory she could call an election right not the GG is more at the beck and call of the PM. A full public inquiry into the dealings of the LPC are also in order.
 
I still don't know that I wouldn't rather have these "carpetbaggers" in power over Sheer's CPC, or... those other guys.

Maybe that's why I would've voted Clinton. :dunno:

I look forward to the CPC putting forth some form of actual platform. Maybe I'll vote Green this year... :vomit:
 

Trudeau, Scheer shunned as some Daughters of the Vote attendees turn backs, walk out on speeches


https://globalnews.ca/news/5126284/justin-trudeau-feminist-daughters-of-the-vote/



Headline says Trudeau and Scheer shunned but the body of the story suggests it was just Trudeau.
Innocent mistake I'm sure eh?


Trudeau was the last of the leaders to speak following first Green Party Leader Elizabeth May, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh and Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer. As he did, dozens of the delegates rose and turned their backs to him.

 
Jarnhamar said:
Headline says Trudeau and Scheer shunned but the body of the story suggests it was just Trudeau.

Except for this bit of the story ;) ...
... In contrast, several of the delegates walked out of a speech by Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer ...
 
milnews.ca said:
Except for this bit of the story ;) ...

Ah, thanks! Looks like the innocent mistake is mne lol

Does the delegates mean the young girls walked on on Scheer too or was that other politicians that walked out?
 
Jarnhamar said:
Ah, thanks! Looks like the innocent mistake is mne lol
Hey, wouldn't have been the first headline that doesn't match the story, given different people usually do the writing of each.

Jarnhamar said:
Does the delegates mean the young girls walked on on Scheer too or was that other politicians that walked out?
I read it as the girls leaving.
 
He continued, adding that “there is never going to be an absolute one side or another. There are always going to be multiple voices.”  This is Trudeau's failing.  There is only one 'truth' never multiples thereof.  That is why courts decide guilty or innocent.  And I don't believe that he is capable of understanding let alone speaking to the notion of being truthful
 
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