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A place to discuss Jack Layton's Legacy objectively

exgunnertdo said:
I don't know where else to post this, but this is just wrong.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=239960959372957

A Facebook event, rallying people to mark Jack Layton's journey down the 401, by gathering on the overpasses dressed in orange, waving Canadian flags.

It is not an NDP sanctioned event, btw.

But a bit of Googling, and I'm discovering media referring to his journey "down the stretch of the 401 known as the Highway of Heroes."  Can they not just call it the 401???

I feel that this funeral has gotten way out of control.

Why is it "wrong"?  While I find the breadth of emotional response to Jack Layton's passing to be surprising, it does not mean that spontaneous expressions of respect should be condemned or restricted.  I would have been equally (or more) surprised if the same demonstrations had resulted should the principal in the proceedings had been the curent PM.  Despite his political views, Mr. Layton was probably the most popularly respected (and liked) national political leader in recent memory.  Unfortunately, we will not find out if his stellar performance during the last federal election would have translated into an equally memorable stint as Leader of the Opposition.  We are left only with the "might have been".  And that is, in my limited opinion, one of the reasons for this outpouring - there are many in this country who look on the current government (and its leader) as being diametrically opposite of their beliefs.  Not only are they showing their respect for the man who "might have been", but they are publically making themselves known as still expecting consideration of their views.

I don't know the particulars of the funeral ceremonial, I really don't care, but there is a difference between the funeral (which is probably following a set program) and the public demonstrations in memorial of Layton.  You may not be a fan of how others have chosen to honour him, however, (as someone once said to me as the only other person attending a funeral - about the guest of honour) "every man gets the funeral he deserves".
 
milnews.ca said:
Let's not forget Jack was also a member of the Privy Council according to the Parliament web page ........ and had been so since since March 21, 2005 according to the PCO site.
Agree with this - imagine the s**t storm if this wasn't offered.

Well, shoot, I just got schooled. Totally missed the Layton-QPC thing. Thanks.

As far as the general issue of the fawning being done over Layton, I think it's primarily caused by the man's like-ability. I disagreed with most of his ideas, but I can't deny that he was extremely charismatic, and this (for me) stemmed from the impression that he really believed in what he was doing. He had an ability to convey sincerity more so than others, and this appealed to many due to our cynicism and belief that politicians were inherantly insincere. This was possible due to the fact that the NDP would never govern, so therefore they were free to promise the world knowing full well they would never be asked to deliver it. There is no bad track record in governance for the Federal NDP. No sponsorship scandal and no Airbus scandal.

Jack Layton was unique in his ability to appeal to people on a human level if not a political one. Who can hate a guy who 'fights for families' (as he said), even if you disagreed with how he was doing it?

I feel bad for the guy, and I was genuinely sad to hear the news. I think he would have done an excellent job as Leader of the Opposition as a 'socially focussed' counter-weight to the Conservatives.
 
I think it was the right thing to do by Harper ( the Governor General ?) to organise a state funeral. I was pleased to see it was all RCMP acting as pall bearers as opposed to interspersing with troops. I do not feel Mr. Layton was any friend to the Canadian Military. He will always be 'Taliban Jack' in my mind. Anybody can be a 'bon Jack' if you sell out all your principles and you are not around for the accounting.
 
The papers are reporting that Layton's funeral plans have been under discussion for a month. I'll wager that the state funeral issued surfaced in the PMO shortly after we all say Layton announce his new cancer. His inner circle of political advisors have had weeks to 'work' the media and 'script' this week. I suspect that much of what we are seeing by way of public reaction, while genuine, has been carefully but oh so gently 'directed.'
 
Blackadder1916 said:
Why is it "wrong"? 

The event has bee changed now. Originally the title of the event had "Highway of Heroes" in it.  That's the part that is wrong. 401, Macdonald-Cartier Freeway, sure. Not the Highway of Heroes.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
The papers are reporting that Layton's funeral plans have been under discussion for a month. I'll wager that the state funeral issued surfaced in the PMO shortly after we all say Layton announce his new cancer. His inner circle of political advisors have had weeks to 'work' the media and 'script' this week. I suspect that much of what we are seeing by way of public reaction, while genuine, has been carefully but oh so gently 'directed.'

With the CBC and others with the broadcast rights? They're acting like it's NHL playoffs, to the point I most turn it off.......enough already....they're down to interviewing 7 year olds who claim he would have been a great man if he'd been PM......really  ::)
 
E.R. Campbell said:
The papers are reporting that Layton's funeral plans have been under discussion for a month. I'll wager that the state funeral issued surfaced in the PMO shortly after we all say Layton announce his new cancer. His inner circle of political advisors have had weeks to 'work' the media and 'script' this week. I suspect that much of what we are seeing by way of public reaction, while genuine, has been carefully but oh so gently 'directed.'

The same happened for Smokey Smith's (military) funeral and Laying in State. I can't imagine how daunting a task it would be to plan, organize, and execute one of these on 4 or 5 day's notice.

But I agree, the perception being cast of a strictly emotional and nonpartisan series of events is not accurate. Political considerations are most definitely on the forefront of many NDP'ers here.
 
GAP said:
With the CBC and others with the broadcast rights? They're acting like it's NHL playoffs, to the point I most turn it off.......enough already....they're down to interviewing 7 year olds who claim he would have been a great man if he'd been PM......really  ::)


This is manna from heaven for the TV news folks. The 24 hour news channels must be fed with something and a death like this, with a very visual 'star' who lived 99.9% of his life in the public eye is near prefect.

I remember the night Princess Di died, I was 'on the road' and dining, alone, at a rather nice riverfront pub near the Vancouver Airport when one of the pretty barmaids said something like "Do you know about Princess Dianna?" "Oh," I harrumphed, "she's just a vacuous young woman with a great press agent." The poor girl broke into tears and blubbered that she'd died ... I felt, momentarily, bad; later, as the weeks wore I on really, really wished she'd never taken that drive. I feel a bit worse for Layton; I think he was a more substantial person - more substantial than Dianna Spencer - but I'm also waiting for all this to pass.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
.... I feel a bit worse for Layton; I think he was a more substantial person - more substantial than Dianna Spencer - but I'm also waiting for all this to pass.

Much agreed....even if I didn't subscribe to his party or politics...he was an excellent leader.
I'm not  a "sheep" type of person, but I know that my perforance improves under a good leader...

GAP said:
....they're down to interviewing 7 year olds who claim he would have been a great man if he'd been PM......really

That is a bit of asshattery....BUT IT'S NOT NEWS!!!
HOLY CRAP...GET A KID TO SAY SOMETHING!

They're just fishing for soundbites....the grownups are there to pay respect, the kids have no friggin' clue.

Fluff....fluff into the wind.....

HS






 
If anybody remembers, Mother Teresa died within 12 hours of Diana.
 
Old Sweat said:
If anybody remembers, Mother Teresa died within 12 hours of Diana.

Mother Teresa's dead?!
 
JesseWZ said:
Mother Teresa's dead?!

I remember being SUPER-PISSED about that, because I couldn't call my Mom, (non-CF related....lines were tied up)
And being SUPER-PISSED (as a Catholic), about the whole situation...

Flame if you will, I think Mother Theresa merited some attention.

(ALL UNITS STANDBY FOR THREAD TRIMMING AND DELETION).
;)
HS
 
Jack Layton's legacy....

In terms of what he achieved, I would say it really comes down to building an effective political machine so the NDP became competative in Federal elections. The machine was able to catch and ride the "Orange Crush" in Quebec and thankfully crush the National Socialist BQ, removing an obstacle that had paralized Paliament for many years.

Another legacy item (related to building the machine IMO) was to tone down a lot of the immoderate rhetoric from the Caucus and supporters of the NDP. We might know or suspect that in the background they still whisper about Canadian soldiers being war criminals and wanting to "eat the rich", and the internal machinery of the party is as opaque as ever, but this has faded from public view.

Perhaps the last piece of legacy is how well Jack himself managed to charm the media and massage the message. He was a cupable as the other two members of the "Coalition" in trying to subvert the will of the People, but managed to avoid much of the damage that Stephan Dion, Gilles Duceppe (and later Micheal Ignatieff) received over the entire affair.

In terms of policy, aside from blackmailing Paul Martin for billions of dollars in Federal spending to prop up the Liberal minority and then blackmailing Stephen Harper for a multi billion dollar "stimulus" after the Coalition fiasco, the NDP have not made any lasting policy changes, just some short term blips (with long term consequences, alas). Indeed, if the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance are to be believed, the spending taps will be shutting down rather than ramping up, and the flowering of "botique" tax cuts is putting taxation policy in the opposite direction that the NDP would advocate. Canada's military and foreign policy has been moving in a robust, internationally enhgaged "National Interests" direction, once again quite opposite to the NDP's isolationist "Little Canada" approach.
 
Simply put, as someone before me mentioned.....it was the PM's prerogative to offer a state funeral, regardless of whether Mr. Layton was a PM, GG, or Minister of Cabinet.

Just like John Henry Foster Babcock.  And I don't remember hearing anyone complain about the fact that HE wasn't a PM, GG, or Minister of Cabinet.

Can't have things both ways.....

(if you have to Google Mr. Babcock's name, please don't reply.... ;D)



 
Thucydides said:
Jack Layton's legacy....

I kept trying to write a "cool retort", but I couldn't.....stupid Vista...
I don't, and never will wear "Jack" boots.

But I'm part of the DEMOGRAPHIC.
CANADIAN MALE, age 18 through 45.
I didn't like the NDP for all the reasons you posted....and I won't be partisan in the future.

But that guy led a group of people....(politicans and such)....to near-power.

That's what I think is "cool".

Just because I think he was cool, (and by saying so online, which I know carries weight), doesn't affect my vote.
I'll still vote for my choice.

Sure won't be  NDP, but I thought Jack Layton was cool.

So sue me.


edit: misspelled Canadian, for Chrissakes....


 
I didn't know Mr Layton personally, so I won't get in that long line of people spilling their platitudes, guts, and wearing their hearts on a sleeve about this ordinary socialist that got too much air time. I won't call him 'Jack" like he was my next door neighbour, because he wasn't and first names are reserved for people who you have met and have given you permission to use their surname. I'm sure he was a great guy to have a beer with, but he is just a person. A person that, until a week ago, most couldn't stand because of his communist values.

I am sorry for the way he went. No one wants to be saddled with that shit. I'm sorry for his family, that they had to endure this and I'm sorry for their loss. Cancer is a bitch and no one should have to endure it.

I didn't like his public persona, his policies or his yappy little ghetto dog attitude.

I am not sorry he's gone from politics. I'm not sorry that this will cause extreme gnashing of teeth in his party. And I won't be sorry if his party implodes because he is not at the helm.

To me, Jack Layton was a ponce and a poser. He played to the supposed downtrodden, socially unacceptable for their unwillingness to work, and any others that wanted something for nothing. He lived pretty high on the hog, between him and Olivia for a couple of 'We're all equal, power to the people' bullshit.

He also managed to shanghai every Union organization in the country. Not unexpected or difficult, considering the socialist bent, the small minded, short term worker agenda all these organizations have.

He is not a Saint, he is not a Martyr. He was a person who, most here an elseware, despised. He was a hypocrite. A typical politician. Get over it.

This is the guy that refused to attend Ramp Ceremonies.

He didn't go to Afghanistan, as many politicians from every party did, even though he could have gone to see first hand and chose not to.

He tried to use the deaths of fallen troops as part of his agenda on the 5 o'clock news. Least he could have done was go to a ramp ceremony, but he couldn't be bothered. I don't even remember any official statements either.

He called us "war criminals" with regards to the implications on mistreatment of Taliban detainees by the Afghan authorities. He couldn't look us in the eyes when these accusations were proven false and even offer an apology.

He wanted us to negotiate with an enemy that maims and murders women and children based on their archaic 12th century beliefs.

I really fail to see the 'greatness' of Jack Layton or why we are celebrating his passing. Great guy? My dad was a great guy, but the PM didn't acknowledge him.

Jack Layton was not that special. Quit pretending he was.

That's my  :2c: on the subject. Mourn in private and spare us the bullshit platitudes.
 
That pretty much sums it up..... :nod:
 
That fairly much sums it up for me as well.  I took a dislike for the pair of Laytons when they were Toronto City Councilors and lived in Subsidized Housing.  That was a very immoral act in my eyes and a precursor to his and her future aspirations in Federal politics. 
 
I do agree that the media is blowing Mr. Layton's passing out of proportion. I mean, I don't remember people making a big fuss over Romeo Leblanc passing, and he was GG! In any case, as stated by Recceguy, I'm no fan of Mr. Layton; not before his passing nor after. It's still my belief though, that no one deserve to die from cancer (obvious, I know).

As for the NDP, their inexperience will show in the next Parliamentary session, and I believe their so called "Orange Crush" was a fluke, and come next election (2015?) it will be between the Liberals and the Conservative (as it should) to duke it out. Depending on their next Leader, the NDP might become a non-issue, much like the Bloc Quebecois in the last election.
 
Some good points here too:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/08/26/kevin-libin-the-crass-exploitation-of-jack-laytons-death/

Kevin Libin  Aug 26, 2011 – 8:25 AM ET | Last Updated: Aug 26, 2011 8:32 AM ET

Monday morning, after news of Jack Layton’s death broke, my inbox began flooding with press releases. Mind you, my inbox floods every other morning with press releases, almost every single one of which is utterly useless to me: announcements about some community college opening a new laboratory for corn-fertilizer research, or some obscure, fringe activist group expressing its support, or perhaps disdain, for a recent political development. On Monday, though, the deluge was different. This time, it was more like some community college extending its condolences over Layton’s death, or some obscure, fringe activist group announcing its grief over the loss. But then, maybe they weren’t that different after all.


CommunityAir, the Toronto Island activists intent on shutting down the City Centre airport, released a statement saying it “grieves for the loss of Jack Layton.” It spoke respectfully of Layton’s community activism and volunteerism. And then, it added this: “His leadership and inspiration, though, will serve to double our resolve to finally close the noxious, polluting Island Airport and create a park on the airport lands in his name.”

Quebec’s Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg First Nation, meantime, sent out a news release on the pay-for-publicity service Marketwire, expressing its own sadness, and offering the Layton family condolences, while being sure to mention that “Mr. Layton was the only leader representing a national Federal party that stated that the Parliament of Canada and the City of Ottawa was established on Algonquin Territory. He had the courage to speak and walk the truth.”

The Federation of Canadian Municipalities wanted us all to know that “a most fitting tribute” to Layton would be to keep fighting for a better deal for Canadian communities.  The Canadian Arab Federation sent out an email to alert us all about how much Layton supported … the Canadian Arab Federation. The National Farmers Union’s mass email reminding mourners that Layton was a “fervent defender of the Canadian Wheat Board and supply management.” Well, what better way to collectively pay homage to a brave and noble leader than by honouring his passion for dairy and egg quotas?

In press release after press release, this group or that one sought to elevate its cause by attaching it to Jack Layton’s legacy, to capitalize on the national outpouring of goodwill for the man. It’s true that not all were as nakedly self-serving about it. And yes, some came from people and groups with close links to Layton, and seemed very well meaning.

But even in many cases where a message contained no obvious appeal to a cause or campaign, the source of such pronouncements alone seemed so curious that it was hard not to sense something almost cynical about the public declarations. I can’t imagine anyone, upon hearing the sad news about Layton, immediately wondered how the candidates in Alberta’s Progressive Conservative Leadership were feeling about it all. Yet their expressions sympathy for his family cascaded in, nonetheless. Such things don’t happen by accident and it was all too easy to picture the campaign strategists behind the scenes crafting the wording just right, envisioning how it would look in the newspapers next day, when Albertans would read in black-and-white just what a kind and caring human being their candidate is, as if we couldn’t just take their basic human impulses for granted.

At a certain point, perhaps around 11 am, Monday, this sort of posturing must have inevitably become self-perpetuating, given the spasm of public sorrow that had clearly taken hold in certain pockets of the nation. When the Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists piped up to extend its condolences to Layton’s friends and family — not forgetting, naturally, to jog our memories that he “was unwavering in his belief in the essential nature of the arts in Canada” — it can only have had the effect of making the folks at the David Suzuki Foundation feel that they too had better make the effort to chime in to extend their condolences, too. And to point out, just by the way, that Layton “united Canadians…around simple truth that environmental protection and social justice are inseparable,” and that he agreed wholeheartedly with their views on climate change.

When columnists in this newspaper dared to crash the public shiva for Layton with controversial critiques of his deathbed letter or plans for his state funeral, they were vehemently attacked as insensitive and disrespectful to the dead. But there’s a point where publicly advertising your sympathy while calculatedly drawing attention to yourself looks awfully insensitive and disrespectful, too. Imagine if a company like Trek bicycles marked Layton’s passing by issuing press releases expressing grief, while advertising how much he enjoyed pedaling their durable, light, fast, and fun-to-ride two-wheelers. Or if Sleeman offered a public consolation while asking us to take comfort in the fact that his living years were made that much sweeter by the extra body and clean finish of their Silver Creek Lager. Even if there was some truth to the claims, we’d have no trouble recognizing them as crass exploitation of the man’s death for promotional purposes. When activists and non-profits spike their eulogies with commercials for their pet causes, the tactlessness may be slightly subtler. But it’s there, just the same.

National Post

On Twitter: @kevinlibin
 
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