Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

[KevinB]

I’m of the opinion that the handgun should be the first firearm that new recruits are exposed too.

1) It is small, so care and control needs to be exercised at all times, both for safety and not losing it…

2) Trigger pull weight is significant compared to its own weight, and vastly harder to master than the rifle/carbine.

3) Pistols, and pistol ammo is cheaper than rifle ammo, and most pistols have a longer service life for round count than rifles.

4) Ranges are easier to have for pistols compared to rifle cartridges simply due to templates.

 

[Haggis]

For everyone

UK ARMED FORCES UNINTENTIONAL FIREARM INJURIES

https://web.archive.org/web/20120713042239id_/http://www.ramcjournal.com/2009/mar09/stansfield.pdf

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[KTown Cowboy]

I carried the browning and then switched to the P225 for about 7 years working out of the dockyard in Halifax from 2005 to 2012, we only had range time about once or twice a year.

 

[Aper]

I’m of the opinion that the handgun should be the first firearm that new recruits are exposed too.

1) It is small, so care and control needs to be exercised at all times, both for safety and not losing it…

2) Trigger pull weight is significant compared to its own weight, and vastly harder to master than the rifle/carbine.

3) Pistols, and pistol ammo is cheaper than rifle ammo, and most pistols have a longer service life for round count than rifles.

4) Ranges are easier to have for pistols compared to rifle cartridges simply due to templates.

100%

We are still training like we're getting deployed overseas in a couple of weeks to fight the Germans. The whole training needs to change, as well as mentality.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I’m of the opinion that the handgun should be the first firearm that new recruits are exposed too.

1) It is small, so care and control needs to be exercised at all times, both for safety and not losing it…

2) Trigger pull weight is significant compared to its own weight, and vastly harder to master than the rifle/carbine.

3) Pistols, and pistol ammo is cheaper than rifle ammo, and most pistols have a longer service life for round count than rifles.

4) Ranges are easier to have for pistols compared to rifle cartridges simply due to templates.

It's also one of the most perishable skills I have seen. With all the various training aids designed for law enforcement. Having dedicated pistol training systems at bases and armouries would be easy. I almost invested into a training systems with fake pistols, using lasers and projector. But didn't want to spend all my weekends at various shows. I think the cost was about $8,000 for a basic system?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

100%

We are still training like we're getting deployed overseas in a couple of weeks to fight the Germans. The whole training needs to change, as well as mentality.

Fight the Germans?

How old are you?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

The new pistols, Canadian MMR, hell a wooden stick... they all will be useless without consistent and thorough training packages. That means putting rounds down range in high volume.

That we don't factor that into the project development is part of the problem.

 

[Haggis]

It's also one of the most perishable skills I have seen. With all the various training aids designed for law enforcement. Having dedicated pistol training systems at bases and armouries would be easy. I almost invested into a training systems with fake pistols, using lasers and projector. But didn't want to spend all my weekends at various shows. I think the cost was about $8,000 for a basic system?

There are lots of dry fire and simulator systems out there.

The GoC was looking at Virtra to replace several older system in mil/LE use. But that was one FY and one budget ago.

I've personally tried a few COTS dry fire systems and none have worked out for me.

 

[Aper]

Fight the Germans?

How old are you?

Early 40s.

My point was that BMQ did not change in decades as if we were training recruits ASAP to get their asses ready and deployable like we did in WWII.

I did BMQ 20 years ago and pretty sure barely anything has changed. Like Kevin mentionned earlier, getting trained on pistols right off the bat would be an interesting path to begin weapon handling and firing. Then could come the carbines handling through BMQ.

I never understood why this was never implemented in the first place, which is kinda logical to me, but then I come back to my senses that it's the CAF after all.

 

[PuckChaser]

The new pistols, Canadian MMR, hell a wooden stick... they all will be useless without consistent and thorough training packages. That means putting rounds down range in high volume.

That we don't factor that into the project development is part of the problem.

Don't worry, we're taking a 30% haircut in Vote 1 money so we'll have just enough cash left to pay for 1 week of lunch hayboxes at the range for each unit for the year.

 

[dapaterson]

Don't worry, we're taking a 30% haircut in Vote 1 money so we'll have just enough cash left to pay for 1 week of lunch hayboxes at the range for each unit for the year.

Nowhere near 30% of vote 1.

 

[PuckChaser]

Nowhere near 30% of vote 1.

The 0s that are being proposed to drop off my units budget makes me think that if you're correct then some units are getting hit harder than others.

 

[dapaterson]

The 0s that are being proposed to drop off my units budget makes me think that if you're correct then some units are getting hit harder than others.

Different units, different hits. Plus some parts of vote 1 are not being touched.

I have... opinions on how it's being done, but I do think we need to be clear. "Some units are losing 30% of their vote 1 O&M" is a valid claim, "DND/CAF is losing 30% of their vote 1" is not.

 

[MilEME09]

I've now completed the train the trainer program for the new pistol, submitted my feedback to Gagetown, the pistol it self is great however some of the drills created for it need some work, or are redundant. General consensus from our group of 21 was the press check is not needed and we recommended removing it, why is it not needed? when loaded their is a 2mm gap in the slide at the back of the barrel that allows you to see brass. The cartridge load indicator also protrudes from the slide and is east to see, and in low light conditions, moving your hand over the slide would be enough to tell if it is protruding or not.

 

[KevinB]

I've now completed the train the trainer program for the new pistol, submitted my feedback to Gagetown, the pistol it self is great however some of the drills created for it need some work, or are redundant. General consensus from our group of 21 was the press check is not needed and we recommended removing it, why is it not needed? when loaded their is a 2mm gap in the slide at the back of the barrel that allows you to see brass. The cartridge load indicator also protrudes from the slide and is east to see, and in low light conditions, moving your hand over the slide would be enough to tell if it is protruding or not.

Press check’s are a topic of debate in a lot of places.

There are several who feel that the LCI (loaded cartridge indicator) isn’t enough of a tactile feel.

My personal opinion is that if the ‘see the brass’ or LCI isn’t enough for you, the Press Check should not be either - and just cycle the slide to ensure you have a live round chambered (as the anti see the brass crowd often will say it may be a spent round - but a press check won’t show the projectile anyway).

That said, I will still do press checks at times.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There are lots of dry fire and simulator systems out there.

The GoC was looking at Virtra to replace several older system in mil/LE use. But that was one FY and one budget ago.

I've personally tried a few COTS dry fire systems and none have worked out for me.

I use iTarget here at home. Not overly sophisticated, but it works for what it was designed for.

iTargetPro (Laser Firearm Training System) Shoot Your Gun in the House

iTarget allows you to practice dry fire training with an actual firearm by using the iTarget Pro app and a laser bullet. Safe, Fun and Effective Training. Firearm training at home using a laser bullet and a phone app. Save on ammo while developing better marksmanship. The best laser training...

www.itargetpro.com

 

[brihard]

I've now completed the train the trainer program for the new pistol, submitted my feedback to Gagetown, the pistol it self is great however some of the drills created for it need some work, or are redundant. General consensus from our group of 21 was the press check is not needed and we recommended removing it, why is it not needed? when loaded their is a 2mm gap in the slide at the back of the barrel that allows you to see brass. The cartridge load indicator also protrudes from the slide and is east to see, and in low light conditions, moving your hand over the slide would be enough to tell if it is protruding or not.

Ok- but if press check vs LCI is the current state of dissent at instructor level once all complaints have triaged, that’s a good problem to have.

 

[Haggis]

I use iTarget here at home. Not overly sophisticated, but it works for what it was designed for.

iTargetPro (Laser Firearm Training System) Shoot Your Gun in the House

iTarget allows you to practice dry fire training with an actual firearm by using the iTarget Pro app and a laser bullet. Safe, Fun and Effective Training. Firearm training at home using a laser bullet and a phone app. Save on ammo while developing better marksmanship. The best laser training...

www.itargetpro.com

Maybe I'll check that one out. Bought a Strikeman system, which seems quite similar, just after Christmas. Returned it earlier this month for a refund.

 

[MilEME09]

Ok- but if press check vs LCI is the current state of dissent at instructor level once all complaints have triaged, that’s a good problem to have.

Agreed, I struggle to find anything wrong with the pistol. Even the black hawk T series holster they bought has three different mounting options, either molle, drop leg or belt. I prefer belt but when we hit the range at -15 and windy the drop leg was better over winter kit.