Why we need humvs.

[Fishbone Jones]

Alright CA. I think it's time you slowed down and moved into your very narrow lane for awhile. You've been all over the board posting pretty usless stuff. So.... before someone gets really ticced off at you.....

Welcome to Army.ca. Please read and follow the guidelines. Use the "Search" function. It's great and works well. Fill in your profile, sit back and read a bunch, get the hang of what we're about and enjoy. Contribute when you can add something substantial to the subject, and please refrain if you can't. Witty contributions are accepted in relation to your TI. Please act accordingly.

 

[edadian]

I am going to commit a great act of hereasy and say lets just build our own. I know people with the Canadian inferiority complex want what ever the big countries have but seriously why? Yes new kit is political and our politicians are ignorant of the military's needs, partly because they are mostly lawyers & accountants and partly the military doesn't tell/show them anything. Take the MPs out on an information weekend or two.

Canadian soldiers know better than anyone else in the world what kit the Canadian Army needs. So lets design the Iltis replacement and have bids to make it. The airforce did that once and they haven't had plane equal it since...of course they got stabbed in the back by politicians with inferiority complexes and lack of vision. Rene Levesque was right, and thats scary, the English Canadian inferiority complex will destroy this country.

to the US Army Major...fords? you mean it isn't amphibious? Why do your Marines have it?

 

[Michael OLeary]

I am going to commit a great act of hereasy and say lets just build our own. I know people with the Canadian inferiority complex want what ever the big countries have but seriously why? Yes new kit is political and our politicians are ignorant of the military's needs, partly because they are mostly lawyers & accountants and partly the military doesn't tell/show them anything. Take the MPs out on an information weekend or two.

Canadian soldiers know better than anyone else in the world what kit the Canadian Army needs. So lets design the Iltis replacement and have bids to make it. The airforce did that once and they haven't had plane equal it since...of course they got stabbed in the back by politicians with inferiority complexes and lack of vision. Rene Levesque was right, and thats scary, the English Canadian inferiority complex will destroy this country.

to the US Army Major...fords? you mean it isn't amphibious? Why do your Marines have it?

That's exactly the issue that got us where we are today with some of our equipment. Emphasis on "Canadian content," requirements for manufacture and assembly in Canada, Canadian design elements, etc., have all contributed to very high unit costs because we are required to underwrite industry costs for the production of very small orders when sales to other nations to offset manufacturing investment have not occured.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I am going to commit a great act of hereasy and say lets just build our own.

We've done this before. Western Star LSVW (Loud Squeeky Vehicle Wheeled).

 

[mover1]

Just a bit of UFI. The airforce Tactical Training Center in Cold Lake got in major trouble because they went out with their own budget and bought a threat emitter mounted on a HMMV. It's an SMP vehicle with a CFR and at the time it was the only one we had in the inventory.

This was done around the 1999 2000 timeframe if I remember correctly.

Like I say just a bit of UFI

 

[KevinB]

Hummers have been in inventory before that...

 

[MJP]

But where Kev?  :blotto:

They are hard to drive up ski hills....

 

[KevinB]

;D

 

[mover1]

Surface Threat Electronic Warfare

http://www.airforce.forces.ca/4wing/training/training7_e.asp

Here is a picture of the Hummer in Cold Lake  its small and crappy but its a pic of it none the less.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Land rovers are really unreliable. They don't have good powerplants, crappy lucas electrical systems and they are subject to build quality problems. The MB is a great Vehicle, and the correct option for our requirments. I wish we were buying enough to equip the whole military. Toyota Landcruiser 70 series would be really sweet too.
Toyota 70 series military
The Hum-vee cannot replace the MLVW, whoever said that doesn't know anything about the specs of either Vehicle. the Civy Hummers have proven to be extremely unreliable (hummer had to buy back a bunch of the early ones). I would assume that the service versions suffer from the same issues.

The modern Defender TDI landrover is as reliable as it's contenders. The only major issue is the timing belt in the engine and there is a gear set to replace it. The Dutch marines had problems with theirs because the Dutch government modified the axles with a lighter unit to save costs and ended up spending twice as much fixing them.

Most of the electrical are now Bosch. The body lasts a long time and vehicle comes in many different combinations.

The G-wagon is good, but it has flaws also, I understand the first batch we got had floor cracks that required modifications. Also Mercedes has been rumoured to be dropping the line. I suspect that the armoured version as used by France and Germany suffering from overweight problems and limited mobility.

Toyotas landcruisers trucks are also good, drove some in Venezuela. Drive train is very tough and the N/A diesel is reliable. However rust and body failures under fully loaded conditions are still problems.

The Humvee certainly makes a good weapons platform, but is very wide, will not fit into a Chinook (not that is a problem for us anymore) The engine which I believe is now the 6.5 diesel is marginal and would need replacing. Many of the Humvees in Iraq have shown that the up armouring of standard vehicles is overstressing the frames and drive train.

There is nothing wrong with our choice of the G-wagon, except that we did not buy enough. My heart is for the Landrover however. If were to buy the Humvee I would like to see us go for an upgraded version with a better engine and beefier suspension. Any of the vehicles mentioned above would be good for us. Funny how Hezbollah and Iraqis can find ways to mount a 14.5mm HMG or RR on anything (including a motorcycle) yet our government can't figure out how to mount a LMG on a Milspec truck, sigh...

I haven't heard any complaints from the Italians about their Ivecos, which we knocked off. I have

 

[mover1]

I havenâ ™t heard any complaints from the Italians about their Ivecos, which we knocked off. I have

No but I don't think the Italians have seen how we screwed them up.

 

[axeman]

the ivecos are a runway supprt vehicle . we have modified them and are not useing them the way the italians are ...

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Axeman:  you may have some wires crossed here.

The LSVW is the Iveco model 40.10WM (AFAIK).  Same truck, same roles.  The difference is that we decided to modify it (rather extensively) in a vain attempt to meet the SOR after Mary Collins directed that any truck purchased be built by Western Star in Kelowna (after, if memory serves, the competition was won by Freightliner/Mercedes Benz).

I saw some of this as it was happening - very painful.

The Italians I've worked with seem happy with them.  Of course, it is a somewhat different vehicle than the one we ended up with.  :

 

[KevinB]

IIRC Kim Campbell was the MND for the LSWV fiasco - for which we signed the contract prior to testing the vehicle   :

G Wagon is not a good vehicle - sorry I have used them operationally.

HMMVW's are an excellent choice for certain roles - however while they would be an excellent LSVW replacement that could not replace all the Iltis/LUVW and MLVW requirements.

A Mix of ATV's, DPV's/ASLV's chenowth.com Hummers and HLVW's would be required to phase out the LUVW, LSVW and MLVW.

 

[1feral1]

In Australia the only fuel for SMP type vehs in service is strictly distillate.

The fol vehs are used:

Land Rover 4x4 Perentie 110 (LUVW/LSVW role

Land Rover 6x6. Comes in many formats, cargo, amb, RAEME pods, etc)

UNIMOG 4x4 trk (MLVW role); and

Mac Trk 6x6 for much larger jobs (HLVW role)


So, logistically things flow pretty smooth here. Not much complaints as the vehicles perform very well under the most intense conditions you can imagine (even Antarctica).

BTW,    ;D the heaters in the Land Rovers and UNIMOGs would suit Canadian winters, and are a million times better than thoe MLVWs.

I have driven the US Humvees before, I found the brakes sensitive, but the vehicle went well. The advantage to using a universal military vehicles is parts can be procured thru Allied forces in operational environments, as opposed to being 100% reliable on your own suppy system, which I view as not a good idea.

 

[pappy]

how about these lil puppies:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

As their civvie cars prove. Japan can make some good vehicles.

 

[pappy]

I think the US DOD should be buying these as fast as the Japanese can make them, or better yet start building them here too.

 

[KevinB]

Looks like half a Hummer  ;D

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

IIRC Kim Campbell was the MND for the LSWV fiasco - for which we signed the contract prior to testing the vehicle   :

Right and wrong at the same time!  Mary Poppins was the Associate Minister at the time and happened to be from BC...  Her only other claim to fame was to ban strippers from messes after a visit to Calgary.