Why we need humvs.

[Brock]

HUMINT: Pictures can speak a thousand words. I agree that the HMMVW althought a very capable vehicle is not the best option.

The Mercedes-Benz Geldenwagen tenatively chosen for the Army is a great choice. However, my problem is that it is only being purchased in small numbers and primarily for operations. The Geldenwagen or "GWagen" is a modular vehicle like the HMMVW, it can replace the LSVW too, but more importantly it does not suffer from the same problems associated with large physical dimensions. M-B makes a variety of models in long and short wheelbase, armoured, command & recce, special operations, and others. For those who think it is too small to replace the current LSVW as an ambulance think again. I can‘t seem to find a GWagen Ambulance picture, but it is very similar in set up and size to the British Army‘s Land Rover Defender ambulance. see this pic: http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/muv/muv_bamb.htm

 

[Bzzliteyr]

http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Outback/9186/Gwolfc.JPG

GWagen Ambulance...found one.

Bzz

 

[humint]

Although I like the Mercedes Mil vehicle, Land Rover also seems to be a good choice. Has the CDN Army every considered Land Rover as an option?

 

[L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan]

They pulled out of the competition for the replacement for the Iltis. So did another vehicle I believe (4 x 4 Yugo?). So the G-Wagen was the only vehicle left standing.

 

[koalorka]

I think the German bulit LKW Wolf would best suit Canadian Forces (the germans are succesfully using it in Afganistan, check out the last pic on this page, also note how well-equipped the germans are, great desert kit). The Wolf is a Daimler Chrysler model of the Mercedes-Benz MB 290 GD 1.5 ton truck.

 

[Mazdarules]

Originally posted by humint:
[qb] Land Rover also seems to be a good choice. Has the CDN Army every considered Land Rover as an option? [/qb]

Land rovers are really unreliable. They don‘t have good powerplants, crappy lucas electrical systems and they are subject to build quality problems. The MB is a great Vehicle, and the correct option for our requirments. I wish we were buying enough to equip the whole military. Toyota Landcruiser 70 series would be really sweet too.
Toyota 70 series military
The Hum-vee cannot replace the MLVW, whoever said that doesn‘t know anything about the specs of either Vehicle. the Civy Hummers have proven to be extremely unreliable (hummer had to buy back a bunch of the early ones). I would assume that the service versions suffer from the same issues.

 

[Mazdarules]

Originally posted by S_Baker:
[qb] Toyota,
you say? Hmmmm, I wouldn‘t want to be in a Toyota truck driving around Afghanistan. There would be definite problems with vehicle recognition....

Since it seems Canada only likes to buy made in Canada, [/qb]

The new MB will be made in Germany. US special forces have been using toyota Tacomas overseas with great success lately, and the landcruiser is 4X the vehicle when compared with the tacoma. The Landcruiser 70 series is probably the toughest light vehicle currently available anywhere in the world, do some research before you speak from now on.

 

[Marauder]

Anything that could replace the LSVW would be better. The LS is of little if any value off road. I hate being stuck driving those pieces of ****.
As far as the Iltis goes, well, yeah, it‘s great that its tiny and can fit in between trees and samll alleys, but that‘s the problem. They‘re clown cars, an affront to the notion that four full size human adults can fit in them. And without jury-rigged C6s, they have no way to return a decent volume of fire, unlike Humvees equipped with a .50 or a Mk 19 fitted in the top turret. Plus the Iltis has no way to uparmour. Yes yes, I can hear all of you out there thinking me an idiot, but I realize that Hummves won‘t be rolling away from a mine strike. However I have talked to a USMC LT who was in an uparmoured Humvee that hit an IED in A‘stan. He walked away unscathed, and the worst injury of the four in the vehicle was a concussion and small cut from hitting the roof melon first. The picture he showed me revealed that everything from the front axle forward was mangled beyond recognition. Not a bad survival rate for such a strike, I‘d say.
As for recce veh‘s, I don‘t understand why they wouldn‘t be asking for something like the American Fast Attack Vehicle used by the American SOF types. It‘s basically a three man dune buggy equipped with a .50/Mk 19, and C6, and a C9. Add in a few outriders on heavily muffled motocross or trail bikes, and bang. Can "sneak and peek" most tight spaces while having organic heavy weapons. But I‘m no zipperhead, so there ya go.

 

[rcasc]

It‘s my understanding that the original specs for the ILTIS replacement called for a design already in use. The contenders were Hummer, Land Rover and Mercedes. Western Star (LSVW) wanted to offer a new variation on the LSVW so the specs were changed to allow them to bid. Hummer and Land Rover then decided that the bidding was fixed so they pulled out. Western Star later went out of business and Mercedes won by default. To mitigate the high cost, the contract was split, 1/2 for deployment, the rest for the reserves.

I‘d be interested in any procurment people out there can verify this.

 

[Danjanou]

Major baker, do you think we could get it in CadPat? Otherwise I don‘t think NDHQ would go for it.

Then again the official final (built in a Liberal riding) issue version will probably have monkey bars, a banana seat and a pink basket.

 

[Mountie]

Here's just a few of the G-Wagon posibilities.

 

[a_majoor]

It's my understanding that the original specs for the ILTIS replacement called for a design already in use. The contenders were Hummer, Land Rover and Mercedes. Western Star (LSVW) wanted to offer a new variation on the LSVW so the specs were changed to allow them to bid. Hummer and Land Rover then decided that the bidding was fixed so they pulled out. Western Star later went out of business and Mercedes won by default. To mitigate the high cost, the contract was split, 1/2 for deployment, the rest for the reserves.

I'd be interested in any procurment people out there can verify this.

There was another vehicle out there called the "Brute" by GM Defense. I also believe that Styer offered a r 4X4 utility truck as well. The reason that all these contenders dropped out (at least from what I could tell) was a combination of the ever shifting requirments and the decision to allow Western Star to submit their bid. Once Western Star was allowed to bid, the other companies felt the contest was rigged (as mentioned above) and so left...

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehluv2.htm for more

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Why does everyone keep calling it the LSVW?  The iltis is the LUVW....

 

[axeman]

the lsvw is the the western star truck that looks "european " is the only way to say it not the iltis . the lsvw is the 5/4 cucv replacement veh that only last what was it 10 yrs ? the 5/4 was a 5 yr veh and it lasted 20 or so . the iltis is the veh that looks like a open top "clown car "to use a quote.

 

[Long in the tooth]

After over 25 years I've resigned myself to the fact that equipment will be purchased for political, not military reasons.  Whatever we get will be over budget and not up to mil specs.  We can't buy American 'cause Maude Barlow and the NDP wouldn't approve.  So just be prepared for some noisy, unreliable piece of cr*p from West Star or that great example of Canadian political pork - Bombardier.

 

[Da_man]

After over 25 years I've resigned myself to the fact that equipment will be purchased for political, not military reasons.   Whatever we get will be over budget and not up to mil specs.   We can't buy American 'cause Maude Barlow and the NDP wouldn't approve.   So just be prepared for some noisy, unreliable piece of cr*p from West Star or that great example of Canadian political pork - Bombardier.

The same goes with the american military and the XM-8.  They dont need this crap, they just want to buy from H&K.

 

[Long in the tooth]

I recall driving 20 year old 5/4 tons and 35 year old trailers with bald tires through the rockies.  The tacit concensus in the convoy was that we'd make a quick prayer for any civy who got in our way, 'cause we sure as heck weren't stopping!  Especially as we were packed to the nuts over factory specs.

 

[bossi]

I recall driving 20 year old 5/4 tons and 35 year old trailers with bald tires through the rockies.   ...

Ah, nostalgia ... I remember the deuces (made in the 50's) when I joined in the late '70's ...
(heck - never thought I'd survive to see a camo uniform, either ... but I had to wait 25 years ...)

 

[old medic]

I recall driving 20 year old 5/4 tons and 35 year old trailers with bald tires .....

I remember the last one I drove, I could view the pavement through floor, and the sun through the rust
around the windshield where the sun visors were missing.  One smashed out no-draft window to boot.

I still liked it better than the LSVW.

 

[Crimson Army]

I think we need some more of these! 

http://www.armee.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/2_0_20.asp?uSubSection=20&uSection=5