What have I dug myself into? Armored officer :D

[Britney Spears]

Mmm, those Leopard road wheels will just have to move themselves....


You're confusing "keep you fit" with "having high standards of physical fitness".  There aren't any jobs in the army that will "keep you fit", especially not the combat arms. Eating stale, greasy food, not getting any sleep, falling on your face every 5 seconds and choking on diesel fumes for weeks on end does nothing for your health, and neither does getting shot or blown up. YOU are responsible for your own physical fitness. 

 

[TCBF]

Interesting point.  Apart from the PT - which is often either too much, too little, or too dumb - most of our Cbt A jobs break us down and apart (as he typed with his body tied in a knot from a starboard sciatic nerve squezed like a zit).  Sledehammering end connecters 'now and then' vice as a PT routine, coupled with track vibration on the CNS does not bode well for one's future mobility, let alone fitness.

In the 8 CH(PL) in Germany in 89 - 92, the guy in arguably the best shape was the Regimental Chief Clerk.  AKA 'The Anti-Christ', he coached the forced march team. 

Tom

 

[LordVagabond]

NOW we're getting the good answers coming out of the woodwork  8) (not that there weren't any before)

Something that I haven't seen covered much on the boards is Officers and QL4s. If I were to go Infantry Officer, for example, would love to get my machine gunners qualification, jump wings, and mechanized qualification.

I know that physical fitness is my own responsibility, but I was meaning that I'm not looking at a job such as Chief Petty shirt-ironer or Lieutenant map-folder, despite Logistics and Laundry officers and NCMs being vital to morale and efficient operation of any armed unit .

M410: What do you mean about a lifetime of pain or being tricked? I thought infantry was the #1 first choice on most applications (probably because the footsoldier is one of the oldest profession of arms in existance, and is also the largest group in the CF).

And, if I'm still indecisive after all this researching I'm launching into again, as someone said above, there is always the option of serving my 3 years as an NCM in any job, VR and then DEO, or maybe remustering (if one can from NCM to Officer) as I will have the education to join any combat arms trade as a DEO. I guess basically "testing the waters" as it were. I just **KNOW** deep down inside me, no matter what trade I get into... the military is for me. I want that flag on my shoulder and in my heart 

As for my body and fitness style... I'm a born rucker. I can carry heavy bergens or heavy items on my shoulders for long distances without much trouble. I have the core strength of an ox, it's just covered by a bit of a quilt to keep it warm in winter ;D and my upper body strength is continously improving with the free weights and pushups each day ;D

 

[ZipperHead]

I would say: go with being an officer. One of the things that the Armour Corps (well, any trade for that matter) needs is fit, well motivated officers. Too many book smart Ned Flanders types, and not enough hard chargers.

You would probably feel stifled as an NCM, as you would soon realize that the "fun" things (bombing around cross country in an AFV, dismounted patrols, adventure training) are outweighed by "lame" things (sweeping hangar floor AGAIN, serving pop and chips in the canteen, working 8 hours straight as a sentry on the range). Yes those lame things have to get done by somebody, but as someone who has BTDT, you will quite often question "WHY?!?!?!", and wish you had done something else. And having an edumacation doesn't help, as you would soon realize that many of your superiors have more teeth than IQ points (granted that is improving, but when you hear somebody say "Youse guys......" or "go acrosst the parade square" for the millionth time, you (read as: me) would want to scream).

Don't get me wrong, the officer world (from what I have witnessed) has it's share of boring work, which has been given the lofty title of "staffing", which most people refer to as "paperwork". And having the honour of being the Regimental Accounts Officer has to to be the pinnacle of any young keen officers career!!!!! You CAN always CFR, and don't let the naysayers dissuade you, as I have seen many soldiers do it. The biggest hurdle is getting an education, which you already have (or are at least in the process of getting), and having a Coyote driver with a degree is a bit of a waste of resources. Nothing wrong with a well educated troop, but based on what you say you are like, I think you would be better employed as an officer (particularly as one who can read a map!!!!!)

Without completely slagging my present Regiment (or the Corps), you have to be able to temper your goals with reality: I have seen many keen, fit young officers quickly become disillusioned when they realize that those attributes don't always count as much as some of the other (less desirable in my books) qualities that I have seen: careerism, being a "yes"-man, backstabbing, looking down on the troops (as TCBF has alluded to, there are 3 distinct classes in the CF: soldiers, Sr NCO's, and Officers, and while there is a good reason for this, some people seem to think that being any one is "better" than the others. As a NCO, I have seen the bad in all 3 "classes", and it doesn't neccesarily make for an effective team). And yes, the same things that I said I have seen happen with officers (careerism, backstabbing, etc) happens with NCM's, though we have the (bad) fortune of having a longer period for our careers to play out. An officer has only so long before his/her "best before" date expires, and you are competing for fewer positions than NCO's have to (until reaching the higher ranks/positions, of course).

I would recommend thinking long and hard about choosing what it is that you want, because as it was mentioned before, the recruiting centre probably isn't too thrilled with people who continually change their mind (though making the right decision over the period of 6 months to a year, is preferable to having to live with the wrong decision for 25 years). And if there is a quality that NOBODY likes in a leader (be it NCO or officer) is indecisiveness: weigh your options, make a plan, and act on it.

Al

 

[Journeyman]

you would soon realize that many of your superiors have more teeth than IQ points

Too funny.

But in the end, while the Navy & Air Force are about equipment, the army is about PEOPLE. Yes, technology and vehicles are critical in today's army, but people will keep you alive (or get you killed) regardless of what's carrying you into harm's way. You will definitely find that some people are high-speed, some are oxygen thieves. Command and leadership are not synonymous, and being effective in either does not come automatically with rank. You will have the opportunity to lead as an NCM or an officer; in fact, small unit leadership is going to be even more important as the future unfolds.

Having spent my life in the military, pretty much equally divided between NCM and officer (damn, where did those years go?!).....with the right attitude, you'll do fine wherever you end up. Make a decision, act on it, and don't look back.

Oh, and don't worry about hurting the recruiter's feelings by changing your mind - - they're inside while we're ramping up for winter warare    ;D

 

[m410]

Something that I haven't seen covered much on the boards is Officers and QL4s. If I were to go Infantry Officer, for example, would love to get my machine gunners qualification, jump wings, and mechanized qualification.

All regular infantry officers get mechanized qualified on the LAV-III.  You'll learn a lot about machine guns and will be qualified to fire C9 and C6 (light role, coax, and sustained fire), though you won't be an expert.  Jump qualification is definitely possible, especially if you are posted to a light battalion.  Still, other specialist courses will be rare.  Officers are generalists.

M410: What do you mean about a lifetime of pain or being tricked? I thought infantry was the #1 first choice on most applications (probably because the footsoldier is one of the oldest profession of arms in existance, and is also the largest group in the CF).

I wouldn't take applications as a sign that a job is good as the applicants have no idea.  As a reserve force infantry officer I can only speak from observation (so take this with a grain of salt), but the life of a regular force infantry NCM doesn't look like very much fun at all!  There are, of course, a select few who love it.  And a much larger group that look 40 when they are 30, and consider painkillers to be part of their diet.

As for my body and fitness style... I'm a born rucker. I can carry heavy bergens or heavy items on my shoulders for long distances without much trouble. I have the core strength of an ox, it's just covered by a bit of a quilt to keep it warm in winter ;D and my upper body strength is continously improving with the free weights and pushups each day ;D

This is good to hear.  My #1 piece of PT advice to applicants or new recruits is to get used to walking fast with weight on their back.

 

[LordVagabond]

Allan: wow!  Talk about answering all the questions and hitting things right on the nail 

From your description, I may just be a perfect officer (said very "grain of salt"y). I can read a map, I speak all three english languages (British, English, and Bad English) although I prefer regular english, and I care about the people under me.

Whilst I know that the rank of an officer does bear more responsibility and a higher level of trust, one thing I would never do, and I have never EVER done in any position of leadership I've ever been in, is think of myself as better than others. I have the view that if you put yourself on a pedestal, the only thing you do is distance yourself from the people that you most need. Hell, if a Senior NCO is teaching on something that I don't know, expect me to be there with a notepad and a pen and an open mind.

As a military officer, I would definitely put my troops before me. I do it in my movie company, I do it when hiking and camping with friends (I am even the part-time medic, as I'm the only St John certified first aider it seems that EVER goes hiking), and I do it when leading school groups in projects and taskings. I am of the belief that the troop always comes first. I know it may sound like I'm ranting and raving on like a madman, but I truly do believe this. And that is why I want to be an officer.

But I also want to get field experience, be it deployment or exercises. So, if I can get at least some field time as an officer, then an officer I shall be! 

Through this thread and at the recruiting center, I have not been that overly indecisive (at least I don't think so) but, as I have not signed the application officially yet, I have kept my options open. Which is why I've been asking for advice, and as Allan said, I want to have a good career for 25 years, not one I'll hate for 5 years. So the more info I get, the better the educated decision shall be. 

 

[GO!!!]

Vagabond,

To me, Officer sounds like the way you should go.

Ignore your recruiter. He has a nuber of positions in front of him that need filling. If he can get you into one he needs, he'll do it.

As an NCM, a Parachute Infanteer, I can definitely tell you that the job I have is overly romanticised. Serious injuries, a ridiculously punitive disciplinary system and little opportunity for critical thinking are facts of life. Many Senior NCOs are also threatened by the presence of a troop with advanced education, and will go out of their way to ensure that you "know your place".

At the end of the day, Privates carry heavy things, sweep floors, clean things, and then wait around to get dismissed, after getting yelled at. Once you are a Corporal or a Master Corporal, things improve somewhat, but the answer to most of your questions will usually be "because I said so".

These things contribute to a massive attrition rate in the Combat Arms, as high as 75% at the end of their first  3 year contract. I can list several dozen keen, fit young troops who left after the first three years, angry, bitter and disillusioned.

If I could do it all again, I would have finished my degree outside of the army and joined as an officer.

 

[TCBF]

"... are about equipment, the army is about PEOPLE."

Yup.  I have said it somewhere here before, but I joined because the equipment made the Army  interesting - I stayed because the people made the Army fascinating.

I don't recall just where I said it - I have Irish Alzheimers (I forget everything except my grudges).

;D

Tom

 

[LordVagabond]

TCBF: Doesn't Irish Alheizmer's also include large amounts of alcoholic beverages? 

 

[LordVagabond]

I've decided to go Infantry Officer and will henceforth post any updates on my application and (hopefully) acceptance into the forces in the "Personal Stories" subsection of the "Recruiting" area  ;D Thanks all for advice and helping me with my research  :warstory: