Weekend travel vs Annual Leave

[RubberTree]

I hope this is a simple question with a simple answer...just trying to solve an office "discussion", any help would be appreciated....

The situation....
I'm going from Edmonton to Vancouver on TD for a conference. Conference starts Tuesday, ends Thursday. I'm given two travel days for the flight there and back. I would like to stay in Vancouver a bit longer (at a friends, on my own dime) so I arrange to leave Saturday and return home on Sunday.

The Question...
Am I going to need to use 2 annual days (Monday and Friday) or can I still use those as "travel days" without eating up annual?

Any info is appreciated...references would be incredible. Thanks

 

[ajp]

If you submitted this to me I would say annual.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Depending on your unit, but I've done similar before.  If Monday and Friday were your original travel days, you shouldn't need to use any Annual at all, unless those weekend days would be part of your normal duty cycle (which I have also had in the past as well).  You just won't get TD outside of the days of the conf.

The only other thing I can think of is they *might* make you pay for the extra $$ for a flight on a wknd from a Monday/Friday, IF the cost was higher and they care about that.  My experience is the people who care about that are the ones who manage the Fin Code the TD/travel is coming out of, so you may need to get the ok from them for extra costs (I never had to, the OR just booked the flights using the Fin Code and voila, off I went).

AJP.  Annual for what??  The Travel days originally were Mon and Fri.  OP is just looking to fly out and back on wknd days vice "duty days". 

 

[PMedMoe]

I agree with EITS, although, some may argue since you are not actually traveling on the Friday, that it should be taken as annual.

 

[ajp]

My mistake, I was thinking he was using a weekday.  As always, my l;ack of attention to detail.  With a leave pass in front of me I tend to see more clearly.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I agree with EITS, although, some may argue since you are not actually traveling on the Friday, that it should be taken as annual.

Hmmm, my read though was Mon and Fri were travel days, with the Conf on Tues-Thurs.  So Friday would be a duty (travel) day if he/she didn't want to do the visit before/after thingy....

 

[PMedMoe]

Hmmm, my read though was Mon and Fri were travel days, with the Conf on Tues-Thurs.  So Friday would be a duty (travel) day if he/she didn't want to do the visit before/after thingy....

Yes, that's right, however, I said some might argue for taking a day of annual on the Friday as it is not actually being used as a travel day, if they fly back on Sunday,  Although, in that case, I'd argue for Friday as a CTO for Sunday. 

 

[RubberTree]

Hmmm, my read though was Mon and Fri were travel days, with the Conf on Tues-Thurs.  So Friday would be a duty (travel) day if he/she didn't want to do the visit before/after thingy....

That's correct...
Unfortunately the "everyone else says I shouldn't have to use annual" doesn't fly in many ORs...can't seem to find a written ruling on it however but will keep looking.

 

[ajp]

I think Rubber Tree is at the mercy of the OR involved.  Interpretation of the rule and wether they are willing to see that point of view.  Going in and saying "well at ARMY.CA they said...." Is not an option.  IMO

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Seems to me it will depend on who signs his/her CF-100s.  If it were me, and the request wasn't from a shitpump, I'd not make them take the Ann Lve.  But thats just me.  I'm just a worker bee afterall. 

 

[Biohazardxj]

There is no regulation to cover this scenario.  Once the member returns the clerk will finalize the claim with Sunday being the travel day.  The claim will also show that Friday and Saturday were "leave days" thus giving the member $0.00 for those two days.  In the end the dollar amount would be the same as if he had traveled home on the Friday.  Which will keep the Comptroller happy.

As for a days annual for the Friday.  That is totally up to the supervisor. 

 

[RubberTree]

Cheers.At the mercy of the OR is right...its only one day after all. Lesson learned.
RT
RT

 

[George Wallace]

There is no regulation to cover this scenario.  Once the member returns the clerk will finalize the claim with Sunday being the travel day.  The claim will also show that Friday and Saturday were "leave days" thus giving the member $0.00 for those two days.  In the end the dollar amount would be the same as if he had traveled home on the Friday.  Which will keep the Comptroller happy.

As for a days annual for the Friday.  That is totally up to the supervisor.

A Point that I wanted to bring up earlier, but never did  with all the changes to the site inprogress......even now I cant see what I am typing, so Spell Check is useless........Back on topic.......A fact that even t SGT-RMSCLK may have overlooked, may be the cost of the Flight bookins being made for certain dates, and a cancellation still having to be paid on a flight not used.  It would then fall on the member to pay for their own flight on the Sunday.

 

[George Wallace]

In other words, the Government may hold the member responsible for the flight not used, and recover those monies from him, as well as hold the member responsible for paying their own way back.





Mike

Typing white on white is really a bi****.

 

[Biohazardxj]

True enough George.  If the member gives enough advanced notice of his intent then the cost of the ticket between the two days, in this case,  should be none or very little.  Having said that if the ticket was already booked then there would be a change fee involved.  Which the member would have to pay. 

 

[CountDC]

A point I would like to make is that you are not at the mercy of the OR as they do not set policy only live by it.  You are at the mercy of your boss who could say no to the annual leave requirement. If the OR insist they need a leave pass then the boss can sign off on one saying CTO. You should have a leave pass anyways to cover you incase somethig was to happen.

Green on green is fun too.  To edit just select all your text to see what you actually typed.  Bit of a pain but you can edit - good thing too with all the errors I made.

 

[RubberTree]

A point I would like to make is that you are not at the mercy of the OR as they do not set policy only live by it.  You are at the mercy of your boss who could say no to the annual leave requirement. If the OR insist they need a leave pass then the boss can sign off on one saying CTO. You should have a leave pass anyways to cover you incase somethig was to happen.

Green on green is fun too.  To edit just select all your text to see what you actually typed.  Bit of a pain but you can edit - good thing too with all the errors I made.

The OR refuses leave passes that state CTO...apparently if it doesn't appear in the drop down box on the pdf it doesn't exist.

 

[Biohazardxj]

They are right.  Technically speaking there is no such thing as CTO.  It's original use came into being when dealing with shift workers.  Because their work week could be, for example, 4 days on 4 days off.  The days off were considered their weekend even if they didn't fall on a Saturday or Sunday.  Before computers, yes I am that old, it was simple enough to put CTO or Days Off on a leave pass and annotate a leave jacket the same.  With HRMS you would enter weekend for those four days.  In your case, if the boss is going let you have a CTO then your leave pass should read 2 weekend.  One for Friday and one for Saturday. 

 

[PMedMoe]

CTO (or ETO) was also used for working "overtime".  For instance, when I was a Tfc Tech in Greenwood, we worked regular hours (Mon-Fri 8-4) and also on nights and weekends for flights coming in.  For each hour we worked, we would keep a record and once you got 8 hours, you could take a day off.  Of course, none of it was "official" and we never put it on a leave pass either.  I think that's been replaced with special and short but getting them at some units is like pulling hen's teeth.  :

 

[Biohazardxj]

When I was at 405 in Greenwood, the aircrew would get days off prior to and after a mission to rest.  Those days where never counted against their annual.  So it was not uncommon back when you could accumulate for an aircrew guy to have well over a thousand days accumulated leave on the books.