Urban Elites, Natives and Settlers....

[OldSolduer]

So what is wrong with the term Indian? Apart from the fact that it labels the entire group as belonging on another continent, it is at least as good a name as indigenous. We don't generally refer to folks from India as Indians at least I don't think so. Our folks seem to have hijacked the term for themselves.

I work with Indians - from India. They don't mind it at all, and they appreciate knowing a bit about their culture.
We don't have many Indigenous folks working here but 70% of our inmates are.

 

[YZT580]

We don’t? That news to me.

Sometimes I hear “East Indian” but that’s also to differentiate from “West Indian” (Caribbean). But I’ve heard “Indian” plenty, referring to folks from India.

I say “Indigenous” when referring to…well, Indigenous folks so I don’t cause any confusion.

I guess 'cause I grew up with Gunsmoke, Rin TinTin and the rest of the Saturday morning westerns those from India were generally referred to as persons from India rather than Indians as such. We knew who Indians were and they weren't people in Turbans. The term wasn't used with the intention of being de-meaning, that only comes with age. But reading your reply, you haven't really solved much have you? We have West Indian still so you need East Indian to refer to true Indians which still leaves Indian as the winner for the name by itself to distinguish NA INDIGENOUS from all other users of the name. And all so people can be politically correct. What a pile of horse manure

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Who introduces themselves like that ?

I cant imagine the feelings one must have about them self to make that a core identifying factor, to the level that it must be part of an initial introduction.

The same people who bowed down and kissed BLM activists shoes in acts of self contrition. When you demean yourself, it's only a matter of time before others demean you, with your own permission.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

As someone who has Sicanian ancestry, Phonecians and Carthagenians are colonizers and settlers. Same with Greeks, Romans, Moors, Bourbons, Italians and the like.

That's how ridiculous it sounds to call people settlers or colonizers when centuries have elapsed since major human migrations have occured. Indigenous peoples here are unique in that there wasn't a massive extermination/subjugation event along with the colonization/conquering of North America.

Sicanian??

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I guess 'cause I grew up with Gunsmoke, Rin TinTin and the rest of the Saturday morning westerns those from India were generally referred to as persons from India rather than Indians as such. We knew who Indians were and they weren't people in Turbans. The term wasn't used with the intention of being de-meaning, that only comes with age. But reading your reply, you haven't really solved much have you? We have West Indian still so you need East Indian to refer to true Indians which still leaves Indian as the winner for the name by itself to distinguish NA INDIGENOUS from all other users of the name. And all so people can be politically correct. What a pile of horse manure

In the US, they identify themselves as Indian or Natives.

 

[daftandbarmy]

And you'd better know who the 'Windies' are if you're roaming the Caribbean
https://twitter.com/windiescricket/photo

Windies Cricket
@windiescricket

The official Twitter account of Cricket West Indies

x.com

twitter.com

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Sicanian??

Very much an indigenous tribe found predominantly in Southeastern Sicily that predates Phoenician and Greek settlement on the island.

We have pettitioned the Italian Government for land acknowledgement but received a very loud and pointed "Vaffanculo" in response

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Indigenous also covers Metis and Iniut as well

 

[The Bread Guy]

Very much an indigenous tribe found predominantly in Southeastern Sicily that predates Phoenician and Greek settlement on the island.

We have pettitioned the Italian Government for land acknowledgement but received a very loud and pointed "Vaffanculo" in response

Big of you as a Sicilian to even acknowledge the Italian government I’ve known Sicilians who get more than a bit put out being called “Italian.”

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Big of you as a Sicilian to even acknowledge the Italian government I’ve known Sicilians who get more than a bit put out being called “Italian.”

Since Garabaldi and his ilk crossed the Straits of Messina in 1860, Siciliani have taken it personally. Something about being lumped together with Sardinians and Napolitani can't be reconciled .

But much like the Bourbons before them, have to do business with whomever holds the purse strings

 

[YZT580]

Indigenous also covers Metis and Iniut as well

shouldn't. Metis in particular are the result of french fur traders having too much leisure time in the winter. Talk about taking advantage of the local population...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

shouldn't. Metis in particular are the result of french fur traders having too much leisure time in the winter. Talk about taking advantage of the local population...

The locals were selling their wives to get more booze, the HBC didn't introduce booze into the equation till the NWC started undercutting them by selling booze.

 

[markppcli]

I guess 'cause I grew up with Gunsmoke, Rin TinTin and the rest of the Saturday morning westerns those from India were generally referred to as persons from India rather than Indians as such. We knew who Indians were and they weren't people in Turbans. The term wasn't used with the intention of being de-meaning, that only comes with age. But reading your reply, you haven't really solved much have you? We have West Indian still so you need East Indian to refer to true Indians which still leaves Indian as the winner for the name by itself to distinguish NA INDIGENOUS from all other users of the name. And all so people can be politically correct. What a pile of horse manure

People from India are Indians, because well, fucking obviously lol. They also don’t all wear turbans, that’s just one particular religion.

We’ve stopped using Indian because a) it’s inaccurate and b) generally we now prefer to allow people to chose how they’d like to be referred to. With regards to indigenous people, Indian is a term hoisted on them by others. Native, or indigenous, is more accurate and most importantly the preferred term. We can quibble about “back in my day we called X Y” or what ever but I think a basic level of not being an asshole is just calling people by the term they prefer.

 

[dimsum]

I guess 'cause I grew up with Gunsmoke, Rin TinTin and the rest of the Saturday morning westerns those from India were generally referred to as persons from India rather than Indians as such. We knew who Indians were and they weren't people in Turbans. The term wasn't used with the intention of being de-meaning, that only comes with age. But reading your reply, you haven't really solved much have you? We have West Indian still so you need East Indian to refer to true Indians which still leaves Indian as the winner for the name by itself to distinguish NA INDIGENOUS from all other users of the name. And all so people can be politically correct. What a pile of horse manure

The East/West Indian distinction wasn’t for political correctness. It was literally to distinguish folks from the Indian subcontinent vs the West Indies.

 

[OldSolduer]

People from India are Indians, because well, fucking obviously lol. They also don’t all wear turbans, that’s just one particular religion.

We’ve stopped using Indian because a) it’s inaccurate and b) generally we now prefer to allow people to chose how they’d like to be referred to. With regards to indigenous people, Indian is a term hoisted on them by others. Native, or indigenous, is more accurate and most importantly the preferred term. We can quibble about “back in my day we called X Y” or what ever but I think a basic level of not being an asshole is just calling people by the term they prefer.

roger that and agree with all.

I am a Canadian. Period. No hyphenations please.

BTW the first East Indians I met were Ugandans. Seriously. They were part of Idi Amin Dada's purge of all Asians in Uganda.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Indigenous also covers Metis and Iniut as well

Maybe to bureaucrats, but anyone I know from either group (disclaimer: only know less than a handful if Innu) identifies first as Métis or Innu WELL before considering themselves Indigenous. YMMV though …

 

[QV]

We can quibble about “back in my day we called X Y” or what ever but I think a basic level of not being an asshole is just calling people by the term they prefer.

As long as that includes "settler".

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Maybe to bureaucrats, but anyone I know from either group (disclaimer: only know less than a handful if Innu) identifies first as Métis or Innu WELL before considering themselves Indigenous. YMMV though …

When we started consulting with the Metis at the same level as the FN for Site C after a legal ruling, the Metis were giddy and the FN's were pissed, didn't even want to sit at the same table at first. The Metis quite liked the legal ramifications of being called Indigenous. Of course they had two associations that also hated each other, so they fitted in with the FN's well on that level.

 

[FSTO]

When we started consulting with the Metis at the same level as the FN for Site C after a legal ruling, the Metis were giddy and the FN's were pissed, didn't even want to sit at the same table at first. The Metis quite liked the legal ramifications of being called Indigenous. Of course they had two associations that also hated each other, so they fitted in with the FN's well on that level.

If you really take a look at things, aren't the Metis an ultimate manifestation of the Settler Colonial construct?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If you really take a look at things, aren't the Metis an ultimate manifestation of the Settler Colonial construct?

Actually just the natural evolution of the meeting of two cultures that has happened thousands of times in the past.