Updated Army Service Dress project

[dimsum]

I suspect our units and jobs are the reason for the difference in experience. I have been told that 1A was the direction given, with latitude for circumstances outside the normal.

I know some units tend to lean more CADPAT, but outside of field units and ships at sea, it's normally 1A from my experience and what I have been told.

When I was in the NCR, H&A was usually in dress of the day (DEU 3B for the majority, and Jr NCMs would wear 3B if they were receiving it). Not sure what folks who work at CJOC, where dress of the day is operational dress, would wear while receiving awards/promotions.

I don’t recall specifically wearing 1As for H&As, and that was pretty recently.

 

[Kilted]

100%

I'm not a fan of big events, but getting the section/team together with the boss for promotion/medals is the minimum. As you said, part of it is to hold up people worthy of recognition for others to see.

I'm not suggesting we need to do a full unit parade for every medal, but putting on your No. 1A for a grip and grin isn't a hardship.

I got my CD in combats at a CO's parade. It didn't take too long for me to get it, but there were people who got it that day who were eligible a year before me. One of the issues is that the unit may decide to hang on to the medals for several months waiting for a formal occassion to present them. If they are going to wait that long, let the member know ahead of time, and if it is there first medal, send it away to get mounted so that they can actually wear it when they receive it.

Although, there seems to be a general lack of knowledge about how to wear medals. I've unfortunately seen it a few times when a member has received a pretty substantial jacking and the order to remove the CD because they show up without it being mounted. There is a certain officer only trade that I see wearing unmounted medals way too often, but unfortunately there is normally no one around to correct them.

There should be a piece of paper in each medal box that says : It is a chargeable offence to wear this medal unmounted. Maybe I'll introduce that when I'm CDS or GG.

That being said, I have also seen SNCO's being ordered to remove full size medals off of 2B,
because they wore them instead of ribbons.

 

[Castus]

When I was in the NCR, H&A was usually in dress of the day (DEU 3B for the majority, and Jr NCMs would wear 3B if they were receiving it). Not sure what folks who work at CJOC, where dress of the day is operational dress, would wear while receiving awards/promotions.

I don’t recall specifically wearing 1As for H&As, and that was pretty recently.

CJOC does it in 1A, with ideally a Director General issuing the honours and awards in a public (ish) place.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I got my CD in combats at a CO's parade. It didn't take too long for me to get it, but there were people who got it that day who were eligible a year before me. One of the issues is that the unit may decide to hang on to the medals for several months waiting for a formal occassion to present them. If they are going to wait that long, let the member know ahead of time, and if it is there first medal, send it away to get mounted so that they can actually wear it when they receive it.

Although, there seems to be a general lack of knowledge about how to wear medals. I've unfortunately seen it a few times when a member has received a pretty substantial jacking and the order to remove the CD because they show up without it being mounted. There is a certain officer only trade that I see wearing unmounted medals way too often, but unfortunately there is normally no one around to correct them.

There should be a piece of paper in each medal box that says : It is a chargeable offence to wear this medal unmounted. Maybe I'll introduce that when I'm CDS or GG.

That being said, I have also seen SNCO's being ordered to remove full size medals off of 2B,
because they wore them instead of ribbons.

IMHO we have built bad habits in the past 20 years in the CAF due to the "School of Good Enough". Operational stuff is super important and that tosh of Dress, Drill, and Deportment is for dinosaurs that never saw "The Sandbox."

Absolute rubbish.

If you cannot be bothered to know what right looks like with your personal drill, dress, or deportment how can you be expected to achieve excellence when it counts? If you aren't reading the dress regs, standing orders, or are able to hunt down the policies needed for admin stuff; you're tipping your hand thar you aren't reading B-GL-× on doctrine, training, or any other number of important references in the performance of your duties.

I treat it the same as Van Halen did with their concert rider: they didn't give fuck about there being a bowl of only brown M&Ms on the table; they put it in there to see which promoters actually reas their rider. If they glossed over the M&Ms, did they do so with stage setup, pyrotechnics, or any other important detail that would have caused the show to suck or possibly get them hurt or sued.

If you're showing up out of dress, you didn't take the time to do your homework; that doesn't breed trust for me as either a superior or a subordinate.

 

[WLSC]

When giving medals the rules I tried to follow as mush as possible was ‘’ Metal on metal’’. Sometimes it’s not practical but the how is done is more important. IMHO, promotions and H&A should be done in front of the unit, that is also a form of recognition.

 

[Eaglelord17]

IMHO we have built bad habits in the past 20 years in the CAF due to the "School of Good Enough". Operational stuff is super important and that tosh of Dress, Drill, and Deportment is for dinosaurs that never saw "The Sandbox."

This isn’t just a CAF thing, its more a Canadian society thing. We don’t even train people the proper way to do things, so they don’t even know the correct way of acting to begin with.

For example my civilian trade is machinist. I see tons of things in the daily in terms of machine care, which 70 years ago would have resulted in getting kicked out of the shop or at the minimum a quick dressing up by the other machinists.

It seems to be the commonplace thing no matter where I have gone, the proper ways are ignored for the easy/convenient ways. Ways that well they might get the job done at the moment can cause a lot more harm in the long term.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . they didn't give fuck about there being a bowl of only brown M&Ms on the table . . .

Since the moral of the tale is about attention to detail . . . the opposite was required.

There's a brilliant reason why Van Halen asked for a bowl of M&Ms with all the brown candies removed before every show

It wasn't because they were a bunch of a**holes.

www.insider.com

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Since the moral of the tale is about attention to detail . . .

The irony is not lost on me

Edit: I realise now my daughter was demanding a peach yogurt vice the blueberry one I handed her when I posted this, so I guess it's even more ironic...

 

[Furniture]

When I was in the NCR, H&A was usually in dress of the day (DEU 3B for the majority, and Jr NCMs would wear 3B if they were receiving it). Not sure what folks who work at CJOC, where dress of the day is operational dress, would wear while receiving awards/promotions.

I don’t recall specifically wearing 1As for H&As, and that was pretty recently.

At CFINTCOM it's 1A for medals, and 3B for anything else, at 8 OSS it was also 1A for medals. Before that, when sailing on the west coast, it was also always 1A unless the ship was at sea.

This does highlight something I have mentioned a lot of times on this site before. CAF member's experiences vary a lot between bases, elements, and units. What some people assume is the "normal" practice can be seen as quite strange or outside the normal for another member.

 

[quadrapiper]

Before that, when sailing on the west coast, it was also always 1A unless the ship was at sea.

This does highlight something I have mentioned a lot of times on this site before. CAF member's experiences vary a lot between bases, elements, and units. What some people assume is the "normal" practice can be seen as quite strange or outside the normal for another member.

At least one Commander MARPAC held sit-down 1A ceremonies on some sort of cycle (quarterly?) at the C&POs Mess to present H&A other than, as best as I can remember, CDs and "tour" medals.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Obviously can't be that long ago - look at the hairstyle the wookie is wearing, it's clearly post HAIRFORGEN.

The Wookiee got fuck all for all that, he’ll dress how he likes (buck naked, bandolier)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I got my CD in combats at a CO's parade. It didn't take too long for me to get it, but there were people who got it that day who were eligible a year before me. One of the issues is that the unit may decide to hang on to the medals for several months waiting for a formal occassion to present them. If they are going to wait that long, let the member know ahead of time, and if it is there first medal, send it away to get mounted so that they can actually wear it when they receive it.

Although, there seems to be a general lack of knowledge about how to wear medals. I've unfortunately seen it a few times when a member has received a pretty substantial jacking and the order to remove the CD because they show up without it being mounted. There is a certain officer only trade that I see wearing unmounted medals way too often, but unfortunately there is normally no one around to correct them.

There should be a piece of paper in each medal box that says : It is a chargeable offence to wear this medal unmounted. Maybe I'll introduce that when I'm CDS or GG.

That being said, I have also seen SNCO's being ordered to remove full size medals off of 2B,
because they wore them instead of ribbons.

Why are you issuing kit that needs to be modified before wearing? How about issuing the medals with a mount that can fit with other medals or stand alone?

 

[dimsum]

Why are you issuing kit that needs to be modified before wearing? How about issuing the medals with a mount that can fit with other medals or stand alone?

But how would the base tailor (or whoever) get a cut?

That being said, I can’t think of any reason where a medal would be worn unmounted, so you bring up a good point. Maybe a larger version of a ribbon bar?

 

[vonGarvin]

That being said, I can’t think of any reason where a medal would be worn unmounted, so you bring up a good point. Maybe a larger version of a ribbon bar?

According to tradition, a person with a single medal was (is?) supposed to wear it swing-mounted, and that is how many (most?) of them were (are?) issued.

 

[vonGarvin]

Me (centre) getting my 2nd clasp to my CD presented to me at the Embassy of Canada to the USA back in 2017.

Left to Right:
Then-Ambassador of Canada to the US David McNaughton
Me
RAdm Truelove, then-CDA to the USA

 

[dangerboy]

According to tradition, a person with a single medal was (is?) supposed to wear it swing-mounted, and that is how many (most?) of them were (are?) issued.

They have updated the CAF Dress manual and you now have to have medals Court Mounted, this change was because the CAF now pays to have medals mounted.

Court Mountings. Court mounting shall be used. The length from the top of the medal bar suspender to the bottom edge of the medal shall be 10 cm. The ribbons and medals shall be mounted on a panel, its size being determined by the number of ribbons worn. The lower edge of the panel shall be in line with the centre of the medals. Commencing from the lower edge, each ribbon runs up the front of the panel to the top and back down to the medal. The medals shall then be stitched to the panel to prevent them from swinging. This method prevents medals from clinking against each other.

Dress instructions | Chapter 4 Orders, decorations, medals and other honours - Canada.ca

Canadian Armed Forces Dress Instructions

www.canada.ca

 

[MJP]

But how would the base tailor (or whoever) get a cut?

That being said, I can’t think of any reason where a medal would be worn unmounted, so you bring up a good point. Maybe a larger version of a ribbon bar?

The problem arises once you go past three or four medals they start to have to be overlapped which a ribbon like bar doesn't solve. Imagine being like the CDS with one ribbon bar

 

[vonGarvin]

They have updated the CAF Dress manual and you now have to have medals Court Mounted, this change was because the CAF now pays to have medals mounted.

Dress instructions | Chapter 4 Orders, decorations, medals and other honours - Canada.ca

Canadian Armed Forces Dress Instructions

www.canada.ca

Thanks for the update.

 

[KevinB]

The problem arises once you go past three or four medals they start to have to be overlapped which a ribbon like bar doesn't solve. Imagine being like the CDS with one ribbon bar

View attachment 81744

Clearly just needs a biggest chest

 

[vonGarvin]

Clearly just needs a biggest chest

"You want a medal or a chest to pin it on?" LOL How often have I heard that?