Updated Army Service Dress project

[Blackadder1916]

Kind of like the difference between these.View attachment 80948

About as formal More formal than when I received my CD, except there was no photographer present. It was the regularly scheduled (once a week) coffee for the Surg Gen branch officers (NDHQ). The DSurgGen rather casually handed me the box, made an off-hand comment and that was it. The only reason that I was there that morning was the Surg Gen's SO forewarned me. At least when I received my first clasp, there was a gaggle of pers about gathered for the presentation and the CO said a few words (it was in the field in Wainwright - the gaggle was there for an OGrp).

 

[Furniture]

About as formal More formal than when I received my CD, except there was no photographer present. It was the regularly scheduled (once a week) coffee for the Surg Gen branch officers (NDHQ). The DSurgGen rather casually handed me the box, made an off-hand comment and that was it. The only reason that I was there that morning was the Surg Gen's SO forewarned me. At least when I received my first clasp, there was a gaggle of pers about gathered for the presentation and the CO said a few words (it was in the field in Wainwright - the gaggle was there for an OGrp).

Now, medals are usually presented in No. 1A. Sometimes units do it in CADPAT/NCD because there is an event/exercise, or they are in theatre still, but usually it's in No. 1A.

It changed for exactly the reason you highlighted, people were getting medals in the least appropriate way, simply because CoCs didn't care.

 

[WLSC]

I'm guessing that the people who need to buy mess dress are the ones most likely to buy patrols as well. We already have 2B for those without mess dress, and I'm not sure many places would go for 2/2B/1D as options for dress at formal dinners.

I can see patrols being used like high collar navy whites, at events where a suit and tie is considered appropriate dress, and for ceremonial occasions where it's just a few senior people present.

Another example where patrols make sense, the C Int C Col recently had an audience with Princess Anne, along with his CWO. Since it was two senior people, patrols would look more formal that DEU leisure suits, and they would both be in a similar order of dress as they are both senior enough to be expected to own optional uniforms like that.

Patrol dress is a walking out uniform so it goes from being on parade up to formal diner. IMHO, it’s a better investment than mess kit for NCO’s and jr off. The who where what and when is another debate.

 

[Infanteer]

Now, medals are usually presented in No. 1A. Sometimes units do it in CADPAT/NCD because there is an event/exercise, or they are in theatre still, but usually it's in No. 1A.

It changed for exactly the reason you highlighted, people were getting medals in the least appropriate way, simply because CoCs didn't care.

In the last decade, almost every medal/commendation/promotion I have seen presented has been in operational dress - the only time I've seen presentations in ceremonial or service dress are for the odd ceremony.

You may think it is the CoC that doesn't care, but in many cases soldiers don't care to dig a uniform out for getting an award during their daily duties. Is a dress uniform required to pose for that awkward picture that almost nobody ever sees again?

 

[Furniture]

In the last decade, almost every medal/commendation/promotion I have seen presented has been in operational dress - the only time I've seen presentations in ceremonial or service dress are for the odd ceremony.

You may think it is the CoC that doesn't care, but in many cases soldiers don't care to dig a uniform out for getting an award during their daily duties. Is a dress uniform required to pose for that awkward picture that almost nobody ever sees again?

I suspect our units and jobs are the reason for the difference in experience. I have been told that 1A was the direction given, with latitude for circumstances outside the normal.

I know some units tend to lean more CADPAT, but outside of field units and ships at sea, it's normally 1A from my experience and what I have been told.

 

[dapaterson]

In the last decade, almost every medal/commendation/promotion I have seen presented has been in operational dress - the only time I've seen presentations in ceremonial or service dress are for the odd ceremony.

You may think it is the CoC that doesn't care, but in many cases soldiers don't care to dig a uniform out for getting an award during their daily duties. Is a dress uniform required to pose for that awkward picture that almost nobody ever sees again?

My CD was presented twice: Once eighteen months late by a Commodore in 3B short sleeves; the second time a month later by the same Commodore in 1A to assuage his guilty conscience (after the photos of the initial presentation were conveniently "lost").

 

[Blackadder1916]

Now, medals are usually presented in No. 1A. Sometimes units do it in CADPAT/NCD because there is an event/exercise, or they are in theatre still, but usually it's in No. 1A.

It changed for exactly the reason you highlighted, people were getting medals in the least appropriate way, simply because CoCs didn't care.

Actually, I (personally, for myself) preferred the casual nature of the presentations. Admittedly, receiving the CD with coffee could have been improved - they didn't even have any sticky buns - but being a cubicle dweller (and at the time the only subaltern in the branch - whose few NCMs were mostly senior NCOs and WOs) did not lend itself to holding "parades". When I received the clasp in the field, the informal circumstances provided me the opportunity to relate a story to those in the "gaggle" (most who were junior to me - in age, rank and experience). I've told it here before, a long time ago, but I'll repeat it.

One of my lasting memories of someone talking about the decorations and medals that he was wearing occurred in 1994. I had the good luck of having a COS date out of Lahr that permitted me to arrange my passage home on the Queen Elizabeth 2 sailing out of Southampton on 8 June. I was able therefore to drive to Normandy and spend 6 June 94 (50th Anniversary of D-Day) visiting some of the memorials and events there; take the ferry across to England; turn my car over to Cunard for loading onto the ship and then relax for several days on the North Atlantic. The voyage was billed as a “D-Day Memorial” cruise. Many of the passengers were WW II veterans, mostly American, some Brits, and at least one Canadian.

One of the events that occurred on the ship was the Captain’s Welcome Party. Dressed in finest bib and tucker, you go through the receiving line, have your photo taken and then proceed to the most important part of the soiree… getting a drink. Some of the other passengers were wearing medals, ribbons or devices that showed that they had served. I was in mess kit as were a few of the other passengers including a Van Doo LCol and a husband & wife who were both pilots in the USAF. It was particularly easy for the Van Doo and me to be noticed in the scarlet monkey jackets.

A few people had approached me with the inevitable questions about who we were and what were we doing. I was chatting with a lady when we were approached by a gentleman in a maroon jacket that included Cdn para wings and several medals. He introduced himself and joined in the conversation which naturally turned to where had you been. He had served with the 1 Cdn Para Bn as a private during the war and had made the jump into Normandy and over the Rhine.

The lady with whom we were chatting asked about the medals and wings he and I were wearing. I probably would have answered in my typically flippant manner about 12 years undetected crime (C.D.), 6 months getting a suntan and not getting a venereal disease (UNEFME) and 4 years wine and beer tasting (SSM with NATO bar), but he replied first by drawing her attention to the one medal we had in common, the Canadian Forces Decoration. I was surprised when he told her it was the one that he was most proud to wear. The lady asked why. His reply impressed me and later that evening I wrote an account of what he said, maybe not verbatim, because we had imbibed several beverages, but close enough for government work.

He said. “ It’s easy to be a soldier when everyone is or wants to be a soldier; when being in uniform is the normal thing to do. The true measure of a man is his commitment to serving his country when there is little chance of excitement, or glory or getting medals. This medal (he indicated his CD) shows people that we pledged a significant portion of our lives to serving our country when few others would, doing things that we didn't necessarily want to do and that were not very glamorous. These (he indicated his 4 or 5 wartime medals) I got for spending 3 years in uniform doing what most guys my age were doing. Was it hard work and dangerous? Yes. But mostly I had a lot of fun doing it.”

Since then I’ve had a different perspective on those little pieces of ribbon that we wear.

And BTW, now that I reflect back, while I received all of my medals (not that there are all that many), save for the CD, on a formal parade, I never received any promotions (from Private to Major) being called out on parade.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm cool if you just hand me something (medal, achievement, promotion, whatever) and shake my hand if you think it's worthy. No need to form up the ships company for me.

But I'm not big on pomp and ceremony.

 

[dapaterson]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm cool if you just hand me something (medal, achievement, promotion, whatever) and shake my hand if you think it's worthy. No need to form up the ships company for me.

But I'm not big on pomp and ceremony.

There's a balance - public recognition can be important as well. It's not just that you're being promoted, but you're also being held up as an example to those junior to you - work hard, show initiative, in some trades have a pulse - and you too can advance.

There is institutional value in that recognition that needs to be balanced against the institutional cost of what can often be excess pomp and ceremony.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

There's a balance - public recognition can be important as well. It's not just that you're being promoted, but you're also being held up as an example to those junior to you - work hard, show initiative, in some trades have a pulse - and you too can advance.

There is institutional value in that recognition that needs to be balanced against the institutional cost of what can often be excess pomp and ceremony.

Agreed. Especially when it's included in events that mark significant milestones within a unit's history.

One of my former units held H&A parades every spring and would factor them in with the Unit Change of Command, Change of Appointment for RSM, or Change of Colonel of the Regiment. The "Dress Rehersal" (3B) would be held the day before and ther ewould be presentations for promotions, medals, awards, and would be followed by a reception just for the unit membership.

The next day was usually a stand down after the parade ( Which was very much abridged because it would be in No 1s and the multitude of presentations were already done the day prior) and everyone went home happy.

Now that I'm a Staff Officer, there's not a chance on he'll to see that kind of event happen for recognizing pers in the HQ. There are still ways to present awards and recognition with dignity, vice sliding them across the BOR's counter.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm cool if you just hand me something (medal, achievement, promotion, whatever) and shake my hand if you think it's worthy. No need to form up the ships company for me.

But I'm not big on pomp and ceremony.

When I received my promotions they were just a few people in a canteen with a quick handshake from the officer. Might as well have just tossed the epliettes at me for what it was.

Vs people being promoted at say a unit Christmas dinner with tons of congratulations, drinks all around, and generally celebrating amongst friends.

I’ve done the unsung hero thing many more times than I have been publicly rewarded for things. It is a good feeling though to be recognized for things you have earned.

 

[Furniture]

There's a balance - public recognition can be important as well. It's not just that you're being promoted, but you're also being held up as an example to those junior to you - work hard, show initiative, in some trades have a pulse - and you too can advance.

There is institutional value in that recognition that needs to be balanced against the institutional cost of what can often be excess pomp and ceremony.

100%

I'm not a fan of big events, but getting the section/team together with the boss for promotion/medals is the minimum. As you said, part of it is to hold up people worthy of recognition for others to see.

I'm not suggesting we need to do a full unit parade for every medal, but putting on your No. 1A for a grip and grin isn't a hardship.

 

[dangerboy]

I would be happier if we could handle Honours and Awards in a timely manner, the fact that for the majority of pers the awarding of their CD and clasps is usually a year or later is not very good.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There's a balance - public recognition can be important as well. It's not just that you're being promoted, but you're also being held up as an example to those junior to you - work hard, show initiative, in some trades have a pulse - and you too can advance.

There is institutional value in that recognition that needs to be balanced against the institutional cost of what can often be excess pomp and ceremony.

That's fair. I guess I never looked it from that stance.

Its not always about me, eh old buddy ?

 

[dapaterson]

That's fair. I guess I never looked it from that stance.

Its not always about me, eh old buddy ?

"Leadership" yelling out your name and throwing your CD in its box across the office is one way of doing things.

Leadership talking about what you've done, the time away and sacrifices you've made so that those more junior get an appreciation for what you've done and what their future may bring as they recognize your service is another.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I got the 2nd bar to my CD or, maybe, it was the missing bar to my service medal, from an ADM (Not even DND) while in civilian dress - which most of us wore four days per week. It was, actually, a very nice little ceremony - done in his conference room - with coffee and cookies! Yes, we do have cookies on the dark side - and he said a few nice words about serving Canada and so on and actually quoted Napoleon ("A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon.") I think my chief engineer arranged it all because I'm pretty sure my CD came, to my clerk, in the mail, from a DG in NDHQ who couldn't be bothered to call me in.

 

[RangerRay]

I think civilians would be more shocked about the lack of ceremony in awarding honours snd promotions than serving members! Civilians expect the final scene of Star Wars Episode IV.

 

[Happy Guy]

I think civilians would be more shocked about the lack of ceremony in awarding honours snd promotions than serving members! Civilians expect the final scene of Star Wars Episode IV.

View attachment 80956

WOW. That's the photo of when I got promoted to Cpl in a place far, far away and a long, long time ago

 

[dapaterson]

WOW. That's the photo of when I got promoted to Cpl in a place far, far away and long, long time ago

Obviously can't be that long ago - look at the hairstyle the wookie is wearing, it's clearly post HAIRFORGEN.

 

[Infanteer]

Recognizing people in public and how everyone is dressed at said event are two different things. One should be an SOP, the other isn't as important as some would like to think.