Unprovoked Toronto Subway Murder Suspect Was “out on numerous releases"-Article 27/03/2023

[mariomike]

Filmed in Toronto perhaps? As Bronson exits the train the advert above him says, "The First Canadian."

I think it was an NYC R-30. ( I'm a bus geek. )

TTC never ran them, AFAIK.

R30 (New York City Subway car)​

R30 (New York City Subway car) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

R-27 -- R-30 (St. Louis Car, 1960-1961) - nycsubway.org

 

[mariomike]

I'm not sure the Emanuel Jaques murder (the 'shoeshine boy') was the end of the line for Toronto-the-good but it certainly was a station stop. As a kid growing up in the '60s, I had no concern riding the subway; I used to do it end-to-end just because I thought it was cool, or wandering the streets at all hours. Most people, including most kids, were more deferential to others, kids were respectful (afraid?) of other parents and in many cases, 'a village did raise a child'.

Police, actually walking a beat ('post' as TPS called them) would 'move people along' if they were panhandling or bothering pedestrians. Then it became that they can't do that. Toronto police used to be famous for using the 'Ways and Means Act', including offences such as Gross Mopery or the more serious crime of Gross Mopery with Intent to Gawk as a means to pick people up and perhaps take them to High Park (sorry Mike), Sunnydale Park or the industrial waterfront, just to get them off the streets for a while. Totally illegal of course, even then, but it was problem solving. Now it is FIDO (f*** it-drive on); if it's not a logged radio call, it doesn't happen.

I don't know what the answer is either. Perhaps it's just an inevitable result of higher population and density. I'm a fan of the old 'broken windows' approach that NYPD took; jump on the small stuff because that's how rot sets in a community; but it would grind our justice system to a complete halt.

I don't know if it was an urban legend, but I heard 51 Division ran something called "the Cherry Beach Express".

I have no recollection of street drugs, homelessness or at-large mental illness; although no doubt they existed in certain pockets.

Until I started on the job, I knew nothing of any of that.

 

[JLB50]

I'm not sure the Emanuel Jaques murder (the 'shoeshine boy') was the end of the line for Toronto-the-good but it certainly was a station stop. As a kid growing up in the '60s, I had no concern riding the subway; I used to do it end-to-end just because I thought it was cool, or wandering the streets at all hours. Most people, including most kids, were more deferential to others, kids were respectful (afraid?) of other parents and in many cases, 'a village did raise a child'. I have no recollection of street drugs, homelessness or at-large mental illness; although no doubt they existed in certain pockets.

Police, actually walking a beat ('post' as TPS called them) would 'move people along' if they were panhandling or bothering pedestrians. Then it became that they can't do that. Toronto police used to be famous for using the 'Ways and Means Act', including offences such as Gross Mopery or the more serious crime of Gross Mopery with Intent to Gawk as a means to pick people up and perhaps take them to High Park (sorry Mike), Sunnydale Park or the industrial waterfront, just to get them off the streets for a while. Totally illegal of course, even then, but it was problem solving. Now it is FIDO (f*** it-drive on); if it's not a logged radio call, it doesn't happen.

I don't know what the answer is either. Perhaps it's just an inevitable result of higher population and density. I'm a fan of the old 'broken windows' approach that NYPD took; jump on the small stuff because that's how rot sets in a community; but it would grind our justice system to a complete halt.

I didn’t mean to imply that it was the end of the line. Toronto continued to do (and still does) some great things. However it seemed that, more and more, negative things were happening and that the city seemed to be more weary and mean.

 

[mariomike]

I didn’t mean to imply that it was the end of the line. Toronto continued to do (and still does) some great things. However it seemed that, more and more, negative things were happening and that the city seemed to be more weary and mean.

For the last 14 years, about all I know of the city is my neighbouhood. Same as when I was a boy.

 

[JLB50]

For the last 14 years, about all I know of the city is my neighbouhood. Same as when I was a boy.

I still love some of the neighbourhoods and, over the decades, have lived in quite a few of them: High Park, Riverdale, The Beaches (aka The Beach), Broadview and Danforth, Greenwood and Danforth, Mimico and a few others before moving further and further away.

 

[AmmoTech90]

innocence was lost and Toronto The Good was no longer the same place it had been

My dad was a Toronto cop in the late 40s, early 50s.

Toronto was never Toronto the good.

Don't view history with rose colored glasses, the past was shittier than the present.

 

[mariomike]

My dad was a Toronto cop in the late 40s, early 50s.

Toronto was never Toronto the good.

Don't view history with rose colored glasses, the past was shittier than the present.

"Toronto was never innocent. We popped our cherry on the boat over and looked back with no regrets. You can't ascribe our fall from grace to any single event or set of circumstances. You can't lose what you lacked at conception."​

 

[brihard]

I’m sure that budgets need to be increased in that area, but from your perspective could you see any specific improvements to the mental health system?

Settling a debt, no doubt. I always liked the Kingston area, but it has more shitrats-per-square kilometer that most other places its size. Either the missus moving close to hubby for visitation, buddy getting released and hanging around the area or, likely these guys, competitors camping out waiting for their moment.

Ah yes, the “ladies in waiting”.

My mom lived up on the edge of the Rideau Heights for a while out of necessity. She had a keen eye for a lot of the shadiness going on up there. And there was a lot.

 

[OldSolduer]

Ah yes, the “ladies in waiting”.

My mom lived up on the edge of the Rideau Heights for a while out of necessity. She had a keen eye for a lot of the shadiness going on up there. And there was a lot.

My daughter lived in Kingston and described it as full of cons and their “wives” aka crack _hores

 

[RangerRay]

“In Kingston everything is legal, man, as long as you don’t get caught…”

 

[mariomike]

I was the under impression that "prison towns" were good places to live. That the cons just wanted a bus ticket back to the city, when they got released.

That was the impression I got from reading about the 1971 Attica riot. That Attica was a helluva place to work, but a good place to live. Being so far removed from NYC, where most of the cons originated .

 

[brihard]

I was the under impression that "prison towns" were good places to live. That the cons just wanted a bus ticket back to the city, when they got released.

That was the impression I got from reading about the 1971 Attica riot. That Attica was a helluva place to work, but a good place to live. Being so far removed from NYC, where most of the cons originated .

Most of Kingston is fine. Super white bread middle class. I lived there for years. Like any city, it has dodgy parts.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I think it was an NYC R-30. ( I'm a bus geek. )

TTC never ran them, AFAIK.

R30 (New York City Subway car)​

R30 (New York City Subway car) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

R-27 -- R-30 (St. Louis Car, 1960-1961) - nycsubway.org

You are probably right. Checked IMDB and no scenes were filmed in Canada and subway scenes were filmed in NYC,

 

[mariomike]

Checked IMDB and no scenes were filmed in Canada and subway scenes were filmed in NYC,

The Taking of Pelham 123 ( 1998 ) was filmed at Bay, St. Andrew and Museum TTC stations using an H-1 and H-6 class trains made up in NYC livery.

 

[BrianWL]

And the realization, that for some, there is no treatment....

for which there needs to be a humane place to secure such people, which by and large there either is not, or there are not enough of them.

 

[lenaitch]

I don't know if it was an urban legend, but I heard 51 Division ran something called "the Cherry Beach Express".

I think it was fairly common 'back in the day'. I did one summer in college as a 'green hornet' (parking enforcement) out of 14 Division and later, working for Eaton's, we dealt with 52 Division. The 52 Division Detective Office was noted for its 'creativity'. Probably the most legendary was the team of Lou Nicolucci and Frank Barbetta of the Hold-Up Squad. Back in the day, bank robberies were fairly common and most were committed by Montreal thugs coming down the 401 and were tending to become quite violent. N & B were allegedly given free rein so long as the problem was solved. It was.

 

[OldSolduer]

Midnight rides were a thing as well in Winnipeg and Saskatoon. FA and FO.

 

[mariomike]

I think it was fairly common 'back in the day'. I did one summer in college as a 'green hornet' (parking enforcement) out of 14 Division and later, working for Eaton's, we dealt with 52 Division. The 52 Division Detective Office was noted for its 'creativity'. Probably the most legendary was the team of Lou Nicolucci and Frank Barbetta of the Hold-Up Squad. Back in the day, bank robberies were fairly common and most were committed by Montreal thugs coming down the 401 and were tending to become quite violent. N & B were allegedly given free rein so long as the problem was solved. It was.

I heard of N & B. They were dealing with gunmen, and were apparently pretty "effective".

Something I read about LAPD, but might apply elsewhere,

QUOTE

Starting in 1973, affirmative action & consent decrees changed LAPD culture from aggressively pursuing criminals to laying back in police cars, taking careful and lengthy reports, while gangs ran wild in the streets and portions of L.A. were terrorized by thugs.

When I was in the field in the 1960s, our 3,400 policemen (our Civil Service rank) arrested 100,000 more criminals than do today's 10,000 affirmative action wonders. (Attorney GARY INGEMUNSON in "Warning Bells," Thin Blue Line, July 2005, p. 13—Also L.A. Times of 13 March 1996, pp. B-1 & 3): A “distressed Mayor Richard Riordan…said it was vexing to learn that LAPD is now making 100,000 fewer arrests, issuing over 200,000 fewer citations, and conducting over 20,000 fewer field interviews per year.”

There is no “nice” way to arrest a dangerous and combative suspect. Officers today are more concerned about getting burned and labeled as a rogue officer than being aggressive at confronting suspects. When were you safer, taxpayers, then or now…?

Police work can be violent and unpleasant to view. The California Government Code, sections 821, 845, & 846 state public employees cannot be sued for “failure to provide adequate police protection or service, to prevent the commission of crimes and failure to apprehend criminals.”

The “Protect and to Serve” motto is a statement, not a promise.

When the community fails to support its police in its proper and reasonable enforcement efforts, the police become demoralized and cease proactive enforcement. Doing nothing or devoting inordinate attention to minor incidents and thus being unavailable to handle more serious calls has few consequences…..

END QUOTE

 

[Halifax Tar]

This makes me think of this

Peaceful People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf​

 

[PMedMoe]

As an aside, the Kingston shooting was more than likely gang related with someone knowing the date of release from the Henry Trail Halfway House adjacent to Collins Bay Institution. I'd also be willing to be the suspects aren't from Kingston.

My daughter lived in Kingston and described it as full of cons and their “wives” aka crack _hores

Sure, that describes all of Kingston.