U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[Rifleman62]

TheHead  I agree.

marionmike:

Senator Blumenthal served in United States Marine Corps Reserve from 1970 to 1976.

Same reference as above.

In 1970, with his last deferment in jeopardy, he (Blumenthal) landed a coveted spot in the Marine Reserve, which virtually guaranteed that he would not be sent to Vietnam. He joined a unit in Washington that conducted drills and other exercises and focused on local projects, like fixing a campground and organizing a Toys for Tots drive.

 

[mariomike]

As we head into 2018, my favorite Vietnam War hero is Robert Mueller.

Formerly a Captain in the USMC.

Bronze Star Medal w/ Combat "V"
Purple Heart Medal
Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal (2) w/ Combat "V"
Combat Action Ribbon
Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross

In 1970, with his last deferment in jeopardy, he (Blumenthal) landed a coveted spot in the Marine Reserve, which virtually guaranteed that he would not be sent to Vietnam. He joined a unit in Washington that conducted drills and other exercises and focused on local projects, like fixing a campground and organizing a Toys for Tots drive.

Sounds similar to my time in the PRes. Even joined the very same year. 

 

[Rifleman62]

Note, he enlisted. His friend, a USMC 1Lt was KIA which motivate Mueller to enlist.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yes I am being facetious about the "best thing since sliced bread". The best thing since pre-peeled oranges would have been more appropriate.

Do you see how quickly a discussion about the country and world turns in to hyperbole and bitching about
extraneous stuff? Like all the media coverage about the presidents eating habits? Sometimes when serious shit is going down in the world?

And I'm not comparing the U.S to Zimbabwe. I'm using Zimbabwe to illustrate my point how I don't think nowadays it's appropriate to attribute the swings of economic cycles to a governing administration, unless of course they take extreme measures and screw up an otherwise stable monetary policy, as in the case of Zimbabwe.
Although every politician in power will take credit for economic upswings, and blame the downswings on the last guy. Most of the time they have SFA to do with it.

What's your opinion on the tax break that the US President just championed.


Are the left-wing US woke AF types still calling the president literally Hitler or have they found something else now that he's moved the US embassy to Jerusalem?

 

[McG]

Intriguing positioning, though maybe a little hyperbole? 
Maybe?

Fox News is a threat to Western democracy
By Paul Adams
iPolitics
22 Dec 2017

It has become fashionable to say that the Fox News Channel is the American equivalent of Russian state-directed television. That’s not quite true.

Russian TV news may do Vladimir Putin’s bidding, but he presumably understands the distinction between what is true in what those stations purvey and what is propaganda. It’s a one-way process. Russian TV news takes its direction from Putin — not the other way around.

According to some reports, President Donald Trump watches four hours or more of television a day and won’t let anyone else touch the remote control on his 60-inch TV in the dining room. And he isn’t watching Modern Family. He does some rage-watching of MSNBC and CNN at breakfast, but then turns to Fox for a more congenial diet of support, ideas and political provocation, suggesting everything from a coup d’état in the works against him to his planned assassination by the FBI.

Fox has created an insidious little circle — from its programming to Trump’s brain and back — that is utterly unlike anything in Putin’s Russia. And increasingly, the Fox diet comes with a healthy portion of attacks on the sinews of American democracy — particularly the rule of law, generated out of fury at the Mueller investigation into the connections between Trump and his entourage and Russia.

Robert Mueller has charged four people so far, including two of Trump’s top aides, Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn. He has secured two guilty pleas, including Flynn’s, so he is obviously on to something. It was almost inevitable that Trump and other Republicans eventually would start attacking Mueller’s credibility, just as Democrats tried to undermine Ken Starr’s investigation into Bill Clinton when he was president. And Mueller made a tactical mistake when he enlisted an FBI investigator, Peter Strzok, who had exchanged scores of private messages with a colleague that were openly hostile to Trump. (Mueller fired Strzok when he learned of the messages.)

So here we are.

Those of us who feared Trump’s election in 2016 (and there were some of us who understood that was a possibility) were concerned about two somewhat contradictory things. The first was his authoritarian impulses, fuelled by his racism and resentment, which took Vladimir Putin as a lodestar. The second was his towering incompetence — his utter ignorance of, and lack of curiosity about, the basic facts presidents must command, married to his temperamental immaturity.

The authoritarian danger was that a President Trump would systematically dismantle the checks and balances of the world’s first and most important modern democracy. The incompetence danger was that he might lead America, or the world, into some calamity, such as an unnecessary nuclear war. But of course, to the degree he was incompetent, he was unlikely to be an effective authoritarian in the manner of shrewder and more capable men such as Putin and Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

So far, for all his attacks on American institutions — including his own party, Congress, the judiciary, the intelligence services, the media and even members of his own cabinet — the dominating theme of Trump’s presidency has been incompetence. He has managed to push through just one piece of major legislation — a tax bill that contradicts his campaign promises and may hurt the economic fortunes of his base. His popularity is averaging just 37 per cent in the polls, and as the handy charts at FiveThirtyEight demonstrate, this is unprecedented for modern presidents.

He has failed to do the elemental work that effective authoritarians must do: build a disciplined party apparatus, bring the bureaucracy under secure control, and shape a coherent ideology.

But this is where Fox comes in, and the real danger to democracy. It is the essence of democratic systems that all the participants accept the results of elections. That’s why it’s a reaffirmation of the system when losing candidates, such as Richard Nixon in 1960 and Al Gore in 2000, accept defeat even if there is reason to think the process was unfair. It is also, by the way, why Trump’s fear that his legitimacy as president is undermined by the role Russia played in the 2016 election is not entirely misplaced.

It is the magic of democracies that when people or parties lose, they do not head for the hills and embark on armed rebellion. They lick their wounds and prepare to fight again.

Part of that democratic bargain is that the victors do not embark on a campaign of arresting their opponents. That is why the “Lock her up!” chant led by Michael Flynn in the election campaign, and enthusiastically applauded by Trump, was so deeply disturbing. It hinted at Putinesque plans to round up opponents, seizing their liberty and their wealth.

Now Fox and Friends in the morning, and Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity at night, along with many less prominent figures on Fox, are stitching together a paranoid vision that sees many of the central institutions of the American system conspiring against Trump and his supporters. At one level, this may seem like building the political predicate for firing Mueller, or perhaps — as an alternative to firing him — for discrediting his investigation.

But the ideas Fox is now propounding are likely to outlast this episode, and quite possibly Trump himself. They are building the predicate for something much more sinister than firing Mueller.

Here are some of the things that people on Fox News have been saying in recent weeks:

• One Fox news host, Jeanine Pirro, called not only for the shutdown of Mueller’s investigation but a wholesale round-up and arrest of employees at the Department of Justice and the FBI. She said they need “to be cleansed of individuals who should not just be fired, but who need to be taken out in cuffs.” She specifically called for handcuffs for FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe.
• Fox commentators and hosts have compared the FBI to the KGB, the Soviet-era secret police who were a chief instrument of the Communist Party’s campaign of terror against the citizenry.
• A Fox news host, Jesse Watters, suggested that there might be a coup in the works: that is to say, the overthrow of a legitimate political authority by the use of force from inside the apparatus of government.
• On Tuesday of this week, Fox contributor Kevin Jackson suggested the FBI might be planning to assassinate Trump — an idea already propagated by the crack-brained alt-right broadcaster Alex Jones. The other contributors on the panel seemed shocked by what Jackson said on air, but he doubled down.

It is worth remembering, by the way, that despite a massive upheaval at Fox in the last year or so — the loss of the network’s programming genius, Roger Ailes, and its ratings king, Bill O’Reilly, to sex scandals, as well as the defection of another popular host, Megyn Kelly, to NBC — it ended 2017 on top of the ratings. It is easily beating MSNBC and CNN even as they have their own record-setting years.

Fox’s huge audience is being primed to believe that if Republicans lose in Congressional elections in 2018, or if Trump loses in 2020, it will be due not to the routine mechanisms of democracy, but to a nefarious conspiracy. Fox is encouraging its viewers to no longer accept the rules of the democratic game, but to see an ordinary political loss as an infuriating affront that cannot be redressed by democratic means. And who knows where that might lead?

The logic leads to violence.

The paranoid style of Fox’s thinking will not be erased if Trump is forced from the scene politically. The most chilling thought is that the next champion Fox and its friends attach themselves to once Trump is gone may not be quite so incompetent.

https://ipolitics.ca/2017/12/22/fox-news-threat-western-democracy/

 

[mariomike]

What's your opinion on the tax break that the US President just championed.

Tax bill approval rating
https://www.google.ca/search?dcr=0&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A12%2F18%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F23%2F2017&ei=c8s-WtTJIYfljwSM15eADw&q=%22tax+bill%22+opinion&oq=%22tax+bill%22+opinion&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i20i263k1j0i22i30k1.56859.60244.0.60688.11.11.0.0.0.0.136.1373.0j11.11.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.11.1352...0i67k1j0i3k1.0.caCZeFoVzhI

 

[Jarnhamar]

Opinions from CNN? Think I'll pass on that one young fella  lol

 

[mariomike]

Opinions from CNN?

I typed into Google: "tax bill opinion". Dec. 18 to Dec 23, 2017. I did not type CNN into the search engine.

That got 818,000 results from various sources across America. You can pick which ever of those sources you prefer to believe or disbelieve.
https://www.google.ca/search?dcr=0&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A12%2F18%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F23%2F2017&ei=c8s-WtTJIYfljwSM15eADw&q=%22tax+bill%22+opinion&oq=%22tax+bill%22+opinion&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i20i263k1j0i22i30k1.56859.60244.0.60688.11.11.0.0.0.0.136.1373.0j11.11.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.11.1352...0i67k1j0i3k1.0.caCZeFoVzhI

The image I posted, was a Gallup poll. Not CNN.

I'll post it again so you can see for yourself. It's Gallup. Not CNN.

"Trump has the lowest approval of any modern president at the end of his first year"
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/21/16798432/trump-low-approval-december-first-year

He even compared his first year to President Trueman. President Trueman was more than TWICE as popular as Trump in his first year.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/10/29/donald-trump-half-popular-harry-truman-first-year-good-reasons-aj-baime-column/802465001/

President Kennedy promised America would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade in his first year. He didn't live to see it, but they did. Trump is no JFK or Trueman. Or Eisenhower of any of them.



Trump understands the base, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

President Kennedy promised America would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade in his first year. He didn't live to see it, but they did.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=mariomike]
"Trump has the lowest approval of any modern president at the end of his first year"
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/21/16798432/trump-low-approval-december-first-year
[/quote]
Yea, when I think of all the snowflakes and whats going on in the US university campuses down there I'm not too surprised.

He's still getting shit done. Pretty awesome of him when you think of it.  Next year his approval will be 59%  :nod:

 

[mariomike]

Yea, when I think of all the snowflakes and whats going on in the US university campuses down there I'm not too surprised.

"Why Trump Supporters Love Calling People "Snowflakes" "
https://www.gq.com/story/why-trump-supporters-love-calling-people-snowflakes

 

[Jarnhamar]

"Cuck" and "snowflake" seem popular in alt-right name calling. I didn't know why, so I looked it up.

Yea!  You know, people who think they're unique but have a melt down if you breathe on them. Offended by everything.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4824866/How-did-today-s-students-turn-snowflakes.html

How did so many of today's students turn into snowflakes, asks DOMINIC SANDBROOK: Once they protested about great injustices like apartheid. But now many think THEY are the victims, taking offence over the most laughably trivial issues

Same idiots that cry about not calling your pet male or female. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/08/14/tibor-fischer-right-generation-university-students-bunch-snowflakes/
https://www.today.com/parents/not-daycare-college-president-calls-out-snowflakes-t102226
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4392155/oxford-professor-toughen-up-snowflake-students/




Edited for brevity.

 

[Jed]

When I was a "young fella" I don't remember people calling others "snowflakes" or "cucks".  So, I looked up why they do now.

"Why Trump Supporters Love Calling People "Snowflakes" "
https://www.gq.com/story/why-trump-supporters-love-calling-people-snowflakes


"Why Angry White Men Love Calling People “Cucks" "
https://www.gq.com/story/why-angry-white-men-love-calling-people-cucks

I assume you were a 'young fella' about the same time as I was. 'Snowflake' and 'Cuck' was slang that was not yet used. When I was acting like a misbehaved naïve young fool, the old white dudes generally just rightfully called me ' a little A hole' or a stupid little b*ard' .  I guess we were not afflicted with rampant political correctness back in the day.

 

[mariomike]

You know, people who think they're unique but have a melt down if you breathe on them. Offended by everything.

There is a safe space. It's called Fox News. 

Lets go find us some statues 

Better hurry. Memphis, Tenn. just took their last ones down a couple of days ago.

I assume you were a 'young fella' about the same time as I was. 'Snowflake' and 'Cuck' was slang that was not yet used.

Cuckold was used.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cuckold

I guess "cuck" is the short form.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Yea, when I think of all the snowflakes and whats going on in the US university campuses down there I'm not too surprised.

He's still getting crap done. Pretty awesome of him when you think of it.  Next year his approval will be 59%  :nod:

Aside from the Israeli capital issue what has he actually accomplished?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Mariomike do you have any links kicking around addressing how the left-wing constantly accuses everyone who they disagree with of being Nazis and racists?  Like Nazi Jews and racist black Conservatives and such?

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Mariomike do you have any links kicking around addressing how the left-wing constantly accuses everyone who they disagree with of being Nazis and racists?  Like Nazi Jews and racist black Conservatives and such?

Some on the left do. Some on the right use snowflake and cuck. Both groups are demostrating ignorance

 

[Jarnhamar]

Some on the left do. Some on the right use snowflake and cuck. Both groups are demostrating ignorance

Aside from the Israeli capital issue what has he actually accomplished?

I could cut and paste lists of his awesome accomplishments (I'm being a bit tongue in cheek here) but I can tell you right now the common response will be that X or Y was already declining (like gun crime in Australia before the gun ban)  or increasing anyways so how much is Trump really responsible for? It's an unwinnable back and forth debate. The best answer I can give (with my super limited political grasp here) is that the US needed a chance of pace from their usual presidents and Trump, unfortunate in a lot of ways, was the man for the job.

I think he saved the day by getting elected and bringing to light crazy left-wing radicalism that's rampant throughout the US and especially in their post secondary institutions. Like fucked up Berkley.

Trump may not be the president that the majority of Americans number wise wanted but I think he's the president the US needed.

 

[Infanteer]

He's still getting crap done. Pretty awesome of him when you think of it.  Next year his approval will be 59%  :nod:

Not if they lose the mid-terms.

Trump may not be the president that the majority of Americans number wise wanted but I think he's the president the US needed.

While a shake-up of the establishment may be what was needed, I don't think a nativist, isolationist, protectionist agenda is the way to do it.  The amount of ground that has been lost internationally is disconcerting.  When the People's Republic of China takes the lead on the environmental front, you know you've ceded ground....

 

[FJAG]

I could cut and paste lists of his awesome accomplishments (I'm being a bit tongue in cheek here) but I can tell you right now the common response will be that X or Y was already declining (like gun crime in Australia before the gun ban)  or increasing anyways so how much is Trump really responsible for? It's an unwinnable back and forth debate. The best answer I can give (with my super limited political grasp here) is that the US needed a chance of pace from their usual presidents and Trump, unfortunate in a lot of ways, was the man for the job.

I think he saved the day by getting elected and bringing to light crazy left-wing radicalism that's rampant throughout the US and especially in their post secondary institutions. Like ****ed up Berkley.

Trump may not be the president that the majority of Americans number wise wanted but I think he's the president the US needed.

Left wing "radicalism" has been around for quite a while, including at Berkley.

The Berkeley protests were not the first demonstrations to be held in and around the University of California Campus. Since before World War II, students had demonstrated at the university. In the 1930s, the students at Berkeley led massive demonstrations protesting the United States ending its disarmament policy and the approaching war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960s_Berkeley_protests

In the same way the right has been raising the boogeyman of "radical" left wingism since its early days.
Notwithstanding (or maybe because of), over a century of right-wing fear-mongering, the left has not managed to gather any viable strength in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left#Explanations_for_weakness

Let's call a spade a spade: the right is constantly pointing at the left as scapegoats for the right's own incompetence. Trump is just an extreme example of someone who has zero understanding of the character of the country other than that "the bigger the lie the easier it is to believe"

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. - Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

Trump isn't the President that the US needs; he's the President that the US deserves.

:stirpot:

:cheers:

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

I could cut and paste lists of his awesome accomplishments (I'm being a bit tongue in cheek here) but I can tell you right now the common response will be that X or Y was already declining (like gun crime in Australia before the gun ban)  or increasing anyways so how much is Trump really responsible for? It's an unwinnable back and forth debate. The best answer I can give (with my super limited political grasp here) is that the US needed a chance of pace from their usual presidents and Trump, unfortunate in a lot of ways, was the man for the job.

I think he saved the day by getting elected and bringing to light crazy left-wing radicalism that's rampant throughout the US and especially in their post secondary institutions. Like ****ed up Berkley.

Trump may not be the president that the majority of Americans number wise wanted but I think he's the president the US needed.

Left wing radicalism? The same one that's been shown to be responsible for less dea the than right wing extremism?

The problem is really thus- people are a pack animal and like being on teams. People pick "left wing" and "right wing" teams and seem to really get set into a "us vs them" mindset. However, neither side is perfect nor should be seen to be. Left blaming right or vice versa is counter productive and rarely rooted in intellectual sincerity.

Trump is just fuming this. In reality, and I mean this seriously, he is an idiot.  He basically goes around doing or saying stupid things than attempts to blame everyone else for it. As FJAG notes, he is not the leader (or a leader at all) the US needs, he is the one it deserves