U.S. 2012 Election

[cupper]

Wanted:

A new campaign team for the Republican Party's presumptive nominee.

The gaffes in London were embarrassing, but manageable.

But the comments in Israel show either a lack of preparation of the candidate on the part of his team, or just plain ignorance on the part of the candidate himself.

Can he seriously say that the huge disparity in economic opportunities between Israel and the Palestinian Territories are the result of cultural differences between the two groups? At least could they get the statistics right?

How is it that with the large number of foreign policy pros from the Bush administration he can still trip over his own schmeckel.

Oy Vey. :facepalm:

 

[Edward Campbell]

Wanted:

A new campaign team for the Republican Party's presumptive nominee.

The gaffes in London were embarrassing, but manageable.

But the comments in Israel show either a lack of preparation of the candidate on the part of his team, or just plain ignorance on the part of the candidate himself.

Can he seriously say that the huge disparity in economic opportunities between Israel and the Palestinian Territories are the result of cultural differences between the two groups? At least could they get the statistics right?

How is it that with the large number of foreign policy pros from the Bush administration he can still trip over his own schmeckel.

Oy Vey. :facepalm:

I was thinking something similar, but I watched him being interviewed one-on-one and now I'm guessing that his problem, not an uncommon one amongst smart people, is that his mouth moves faster than his memory. He knows the answer and he wants to spit it out and he forgets the careful briefings by his handlers. I don't think he actually said anything wrong in either London or Jerusalem but, in both places, he said it without he necessary foresight (London) and gloss. He needs to take breath every so often and 'frame' his answers properly.

But, you're right, the Democrats gained a whole hockey sock full of ammunition from this trip.

 

[Rifleman62]

Thanks to the in the pocket of President Obama media who dissect ever word to blow up out of proportion.  Romney is not JC (if you are a Christian) like President Obama.

 

[Haletown]

Can he seriously say that the huge disparity in economic opportunities between Israel and the Palestinian Territories are the result of cultural differences between the two groups?

Yes, he can.  Truth is true.


Comparing a democratic modern state like Israel to the Thugocracy of any form of contemporary Palestinian government or state is beyond comprehension.

If it is the PLO, Hamas or Hisbollah . . .  Makes no difference. They are all mass murders who prey on their own people, who murder innocent Israelis without remorse and are, despite the passage of time, just the remnants of an Arab military occupation that his lingered on Jewish lands for many too many centuries.

 

[a_majoor]

Culture has everything to do with it. This can be seen by doing comparisons across the ages, the more individual freedom the culture allowed, the better the end results. The ancient Athenians were had greater freedom than the Spartans or their Persian paymasters, despite the huge disparity in resources and even after losing the flower of their army and fleet it still took Sparta and her Allies almost a decade to subdue the Athenians.

The Serenìsima Repùblica Vèneta had only a fraction of the population or resources of the Ottoman Empire, but was still quite competitive in most respects for over two centuries. Elizabethan England had a similar mismatch in population and resources to Hapsburg Spain, yet still rose to become a prominent European power and laid the foundations for a global Empire.

The Asian "Tiger" economies have virtually no natural resources and a fraction of the population of China, yet are in many ways the equals of the "Dragon".

Russia is and has always been blessed with a wealth of resources; human, agricultural, mineral and energy resources, yet is far poorer than either Europe or America.

This is a hard truth for people who believe in multiculturalism, or otherwise believe in equality of outcomes, but the evidence is pretty consistent across human experience. Governor Romney should be congratulated for being able to state a self evident truth and ignoring "Political Correctness".

 

[Redeye]

Can he seriously say that the huge disparity in economic opportunities between Israel and the Palestinian Territories are the result of cultural differences between the two groups?

Yes, he can.  Truth is true.


Comparing a democratic modern state like Israel to the Thugocracy of any form of contemporary Palestinian government or state is beyond comprehension.

If it is the PLO, Hamas or Hisbollah . . .  Makes no difference. They are all mass murders who prey on their own people, who murder innocent Israelis without remorse and are, despite the passage of time, just the remnants of an Arab military occupation that his lingered on Jewish lands for many too many centuries.

There is literally so much stupidity in this post I don't know where to start. The Palestinians democratically elect their leaders as well, I always find it rich when the west trumpets democracy, then gets all upset when the results aren't what we want. I have to wonder if 2012 Election presumptive silver medalist Romney knows about the blockade on the Palestinian Territories, and its impact on the economy. Wonder how much disparity would exist without that? Some surely as their are also educational disparities, but those would potentially close rapidly.

The Israelis do their fair share of murdering innocent people, and the way they treat the Palestinians is revolting. I seem to remember someone saying something about "as ye sow, so shall ye reap", so I have very little sympathy for Israelis who don't support moving on with a two state solution and think that keeping boots on the necks of people who have the audacity to want to live on land that has been theirs for centuries before some foreign interlopers showed up is a good idea. I don't get why pandering to Israel is such a feature of American politics easier, it seems just ridiculous.

"Lingered on Jewish land for centuries"? Land that Jewish people by and large quit long ago? So when American Indians decide they want to reclaim land that was historically theirs and find a large, heavily armed thug to support them, that will be palatable to you? It's not a perfect equivalent, but there's parallels.

All that aside, it seems like Mitt's foray into tourism is good for comedians and President Obama's re-election campaign at least.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Democracy" includes a large number of principles, institutions, and practices beyond periodic elections.  Lots of countries hold elections; some of them are not truly "democratic".

The Palestinian objective is not a two-state solution or to share one nation amicably with Israelis.  Forgive me for not forgetting any of the context of the past 100+ years.

 

[Rifleman62]

Typical Redeye post:

There is literally so much stupidity in this post I don't know where to start. The Palestinians democratically elect their leaders as well, I always find it rich when the west trumpets democracy, then gets all upset when the results aren't what we want. I have to wonder if 2012 Election presumptive silver medalist Romney knows about the blockade on the Palestinian Territories, and its impact on the economy. Wonder how much disparity would exist without that? Some surely as their are also educational disparities, but those would potentially close rapidly.

The Israelis do their fair share of murdering innocent people, and the way they treat the Palestinians is revolting. I seem to remember someone saying something about "as ye sow, so shall ye reap", so I have very little sympathy for Israelis who don't support moving on with a two state solution and think that keeping boots on the necks of people who have the audacity to want to live on land that has been theirs for centuries before some foreign interlopers showed up is a good idea. I don't get why pandering to Israel is such a feature of American politics easier, it seems just ridiculous.

"Lingered on Jewish land for centuries"? Land that Jewish people by and large quit long ago? So when American Indians decide they want to reclaim land that was historically theirs and find a large, heavily armed thug to support them, that will be palatable to you? It's not a perfect equivalent, but there's parallels.

All that aside, it seems like Mitt's foray into tourism is good for comedians and President Obama's re-election campaign at least.

Redeye, I am confused. You should post all your comments at either:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/106463.25.html

Topic: Why is genius so rare?

or

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/76543.3100.html

Topic: What's the dumbest thing you heard said today?

 

[GAP]

Disagree with Redeye as much as you want, but keep the personal attacks out of it....refute with facts and figures, not personal attacks.

Remember he be believes in his argument as much as you do yours....

 

[Rifleman62]

I was attempting to be humorous, which obviously rushed by you.

Personal attacks? I do not blatantly say posts by others are "stupid" etc even to Redeye with whom I have spared a bit previously. In fact since Redeye  deployed I have not commented once on his posts ( with this one exception). But wait till he returns safely!

 

[GAP]

:rofl:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Disagree with Redeye as much as you want, but keep the personal attacks out of it....refute with facts and figures, not personal attacks.

Remember he be believes in his argument as much as you do yours....

What Redeye can do is learn to rebutt without the invictive venom of calling another's post stupid and all the other insults to a person's thoughts, opinions and styles.

We don't care whether he agrees or not, it's not an excuse to throw civility out the door.

He's fooling no one by attacking the content and not the poster personaly, which he is doing. Calling the poster's view stupid is calling the poster stupid.

Redeye is on the ramp for his constant abuse, in this regard. He wants to push and find that edge while not crossing it. He may get a suprise and find he's closer than he thinks.

When he falls off, it'll be non negotiable. He won't be back.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[cupper]

Have we all forgotten or just conveniently overlooked the fact that Israel has complete (or at least they'd like to think they do) access into and out of the occupied territories. Which pretty much allows Israel to dictate what happens with the the economic situation in the West Bank and Gaza.

That is essentially how a siege is supposed to work, is it not?

Culture has SFA to do with the disparity between the two entities.

 

[tomahawk6]

Cupper have you thought about taking up residence in a country that better reflects your values ?

 

[a_majoor]

Lets try to wrap this up so we can get back to bashing political parties and candidates.

WRT culture, lets normalize for things like oil, OPEC etc and compare Israel to places like Syria, Jordan and Egypt between 1948 and 1967. The Arab nations can fill in for the Palestinians, even though the real Palestinians were (and still are) kept in concentration refugee camps and used as political pawns by the Arabs.

Of that group Israel grew farther and faster in almost every metric that you could name (and since we are using 1967 as the end point you cannot make any reference to the West Bank, Sinai or Gaza strip), evolving into a modern in dustreal economy during that time period. The various Arab nations (the ones without access to large amounts of oil) changed their political structures once or several times, but in the end, the shuffling of the deck simply reaffirmed the "traditional" patterns of fragmented polities beset by tribal, sectarian and/or religious divisions, just dressing it up with different parties or rulers in power, and economically backwaters.

As a bit of a checksum, Lebanon had a much different culture based on the (then) Maronite Christian community's demographic primacy, and Beruit was once known as one of the great tourist destinations, being clean, fun and cosmopolitan. Lebanon also had a vibrant economy in this period. Since the Maronite Christian population has been demographically displaced over the decades by larger Muslim populations, the culture has also changed (and by force, for the most part), with Beruit no longer being the tourist destination that it once was...

 

[a_majoor]

New ad by Governor Romney's team. Takes the "You didn't build that" line and throws it right back in the Dem's face. President Clinton's endorsement at the beginning should also be making a lot of heads explode over at the Obama campaign HQ:

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/07/31/new-rncromney-ad-believe-in-the-america-you-built/

New RNC/Romney ad: Believe in the America you built
posted at 2:01 pm on July 31, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

How effective is the new ad from the RNC for Mitt Romney?  Effective enough that the Washington Post describes it as “warm,” “personal,” and “down-to-earth.”  The minute-long spot features Romney speaking of his personal experiences in business, as governor, and as the savior of the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City.  It’s an overwhelmingly positive ad, but one with a big bite at the end:

Officially, the ad is titled “Believe in Our Future,” but that’s not the phrase that sticks with the viewer, nor is it intended to be.  The big takeaway is “Believe in the America you built” — a direct poke at Barack Obama’s “you didn’t build that” argument earlier this month in Roanoke, Virginia.  Team Romney has moved from taking Obama to task for this belief to adopting the rebuttal as a major campaign theme.  In 2008, the McCain campaign didn’t have the time or resources to take advantage of the Obama stumble with Joe the Plumber, but Romney has plenty of both to make himself Bob the Builder in 2012.

 

[cupper]

Cupper have you thought about taking up residence in a country that better reflects your values ?

Any suggestions?

 

[tomahawk6]

You seem unhappy.Complain about the US on the web or move on to someplace you would be comfortable with. You are free to move or free to complain.Thats the nice thing about living in Canada or the US. I did notice that Putin has been rather heavy handed with his critics.

A participant shouts as he is detained by police during a protest to defend Article 31 of the Russian constitution in St. Petersburg July 31, 2012. Activists gather on the 31st day of the month to support Article 31 of the Russian constitution -- the right to free assembly.

Maria Alyokhina, a member of female punk band "Pussy Riot", smiles as she is escorted by police to a court in Moscow July 31, 2012. The trial of three members of a Russian female punk band continued on Tuesday, as they face up to seven years in jail for protesting against Vladimir Putin inside a Moscow cathedral, a prosecution they said was aimed at spreading fear and silencing dissent.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I must adopt a position of devil's advocate.

While "stupid" stirs a lot of emotion, it is entirely reasonable to accuse an argument, conclusion, idea, etc of being foolish, stupid, ill-conceived, immature, idiotic, etc, without imputing or accusing the person espousing the idea of being so.  We can - and often do - hold a discreditable or unreasonable or curious opinion for reasons other than a pure synthesis of Vulcan logic.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Let's stay on topic folks.

The thread is about the 2012 election.

Not Israel, not where people should move to and not perceived posting vernacular.

It's about the election.

Milnet.ca Staff