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Trump administration 2024-2028

Shifting this to the proper thread:

I was giving you a way out. The US isn't 1930s Germany. How often is it necessary to repeatedly point out that the critical institutions of society were not and are not behind Trump in a way that is going to lead to any kind of unified executive control of the military, legislature, courts, media and entertainment, academia, lower levels of government, etc? Furthermore, the path to any kind of authoritarianism is not aligned with measures to reduce the scope of government and be more permissive with freedom of expression. That Trump has the habits of an ignorant common bully doesn't make him much of an authoritarian, much less an authoritarian mastermind moving towards some point on a political graph labeled "fascism".
I don’t need a way out, thanks. If your response to a very loose historical analogy is to “well ackshually…”, you aren’t bringing much to the conversation.

The democratic decline of the United States and the capture of the institutions of society and the state by the executive is not something any reasonable person would expect to see happen instantaneously or even quickly. It’s also not something easily superimposed over relatively intact and smoothly running systems and institutions. There needs to be fracture, disruption, and knockdown first- some things removed wholesale, other things weakened. Stakeholders in the institutions need to be fired, or convinced to turn and walk away. Norms need to be shifted away from.

While that happens, as some things decline and degrade, other more pliant persons and institutions are put in this place. Inspectors General are fired in breach of congressional notification requirements, and replaced with an unaccountable DOGE that is subject neither to Senate confirmation nor any meaningful oversight. Career civil servants are fired and replaced with lackeys whose foremost (and sometimes sole) job qualification are political loyalty. Executuve appointment candidates are subjected to questionnaires designed to assess their compliance with the new politics more than their qualifications and suitability for the tangible demands of the role, well over and above any political assessment or vetting that is the norm. Senior Justice and law enforcement officials are fired for having been part of lawful investigations that are seen as politically disloyal.

Categories of people need to be identified, othered, and established as some sort of opposition beyond that one would tackle in civil discourse. This provides a foil for the administration, a useful distraction and focusing ire when such is needed.

All of these things are happening. Some surprisingly quickly. While it’s happening, other incidental damage is being done in other sectors that will weaken the nation; yet even those weaknesses and resulting micro-crises will be available for leveraging by the increasingly empowered executive.

Things we’ll be watching for now as major red flags will be abject defiance of judicial decisions; reversal of historically stable constitutional protections; capture of the legislature such that it becomes a rubber stamp that tolerates and enables executive overreach.

We will watch and hope that the courts continue to uphold the rule of law, and that when the courts and executive conflict, the enforcement mechanisms retain their integrity and play their role in the rule of law. We’re already seeing degradation there though, such as in the Eric Adams case.

We will watch the midterms nervously and hope that whatever the constitution of the next Congress is, it’s one that stands up for the division of powers between branches, and for its own oversight roles.

No die is cast and no outcome here is predetermined or inevitable, but the trajectory of America’s democracy is concerning as hell.

Some of us will watch this with concern and point out when these things are happening. You and some others will speak up at every step talking about why it cannot actually be what it’s taking the appearance of. In the absence of a perfect analogy for a Reichstag fire or a March on Rome, you’ll go to the ends of the earth to convince us that if history doesn’t repeat, it also cannot possibly rhyme.
 
Some of us will watch this with concern and point out when these things are happening. You and some others will speak up at every step talking about why it cannot actually be what it’s taking the appearance of. In the absence of a perfect analogy for a Reichstag fire or a March on Rome, you’ll go to the ends of the earth to convince us that if history doesn’t repeat, it also cannot possibly rhyme.

Readers may, or may not, find this book written in 1935 of interest.

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Shifting this to the proper thread:


I don’t need a way out, thanks. If your response to a very loose historical analogy is to “well ackshually…”, you aren’t bringing much to the conversation.

The democratic decline of the United States and the capture of the institutions of society and the state by the executive is not something any reasonable person would expect to see happen instantaneously or even quickly. It’s also not something easily superimposed over relatively intact and smoothly running systems and institutions. There needs to be fracture, disruption, and knockdown first- some things removed wholesale, other things weakened. Stakeholders in the institutions need to be fired, or convinced to turn and walk away. Norms need to be shifted away from.

While that happens, as some things decline and degrade, other more pliant persons and institutions are put in this place. Inspectors General are fired in breach of congressional notification requirements, and replaced with an unaccountable DOGE that is subject neither to Senate confirmation nor any meaningful oversight. Career civil servants are fired and replaced with lackeys whose foremost (and sometimes sole) job qualification are political loyalty. Executuve appointment candidates are subjected to questionnaires designed to assess their compliance with the new politics more than their qualifications and suitability for the tangible demands of the role, well over and above any political assessment or vetting that is the norm. Senior Justice and law enforcement officials are fired for having been part of lawful investigations that are seen as politically disloyal.

Categories of people need to be identified, othered, and established as some sort of opposition beyond that one would tackle in civil discourse. This provides a foil for the administration, a useful distraction and focusing ire when such is needed.

All of these things are happening. Some surprisingly quickly. While it’s happening, other incidental damage is being done in other sectors that will weaken the nation; yet even those weaknesses and resulting micro-crises will be available for leveraging by the increasingly empowered executive.

Things we’ll be watching for now as major red flags will be abject defiance of judicial decisions; reversal of historically stable constitutional protections; capture of the legislature such that it becomes a rubber stamp that tolerates and enables executive overreach.

We will watch and hope that the courts continue to uphold the rule of law, and that when the courts and executive conflict, the enforcement mechanisms retain their integrity and play their role in the rule of law. We’re already seeing degradation there though, such as in the Eric Adams case.

We will watch the midterms nervously and hope that whatever the constitution of the next Congress is, it’s one that stands up for the division of powers between branches, and for its own oversight roles.

No die is cast and no outcome here is predetermined or inevitable, but the trajectory of America’s democracy is concerning as hell.

Some of us will watch this with concern and point out when these things are happening. You and some others will speak up at every step talking about why it cannot actually be what it’s taking the appearance of. In the absence of a perfect analogy for a Reichstag fire or a March on Rome, you’ll go to the ends of the earth to convince us that if history doesn’t repeat, it also cannot possibly rhyme.
Anne Applebaum has written extensively on the Soviet and the Warsaw Bloc nations. She has also written about what she witnessed in Russia, Venezuela, Hungary and Poland as they backslid into authoritarianism. Now she is writing about how she is witnessing the these same mechanisms for the Eastern European backslide being used in the US. Many others have noted the same patterns.

So yes. Colour me extremely concerned.
 
Readers may, or may not, find this book written in 1935 of interest.

View attachment 91343
People also need to realize that the end state of democratic decline and an autocratic ascent doesn’t have to look like the historical ‘worst case’ of genocide and mass crimes against humanity. I personally am of the opinion that such an autocratic rise in the U.S. would be much less likely to look like 1930s and 40s style fascism, and more likely to look like an utterly corrupted and captured contemporary poet-Soviet Russian oligarchy, adapted to today’s modern times and the distinct realities of distribution of wealth, and economic and political power in the U.S.
 
People also need to realize that the end state of democratic decline and an autocratic ascent doesn’t have to look like the historical ‘worst case’ of genocide and mass crimes against humanity. I personally am of the opinion that such an autocratic rise in the U.S. would be much less likely to look like 1930s and 40s style fascism, and more likely to look like an utterly corrupted and captured contemporary poet-Soviet Russian oligarchy, adapted to today’s modern times and the distinct realities of distribution of wealth, and economic and political power in the U.S.
There’s a lot of stops on the authoritarian train before one gets to Genocide Station. It might not even reach there, but it still won’t be a nice place to live. I don’t think Hungary is much of a police state, in that dissidents aren’t being thrown into gulags, but otherwise, Orban’s control of the institutions is near total.
 
The democratic decline of the United States and the capture of the institutions of society and the state by the executive is not something any reasonable person would expect to see happen instantaneously or even quickly. It’s also not something easily superimposed over relatively intact and smoothly running systems and institutions. There needs to be fracture, disruption, and knockdown first- some things removed wholesale, other things weakened. Stakeholders in the institutions need to be fired, or convinced to turn and walk away. Norms need to be shifted away from.
The capture of institutions by the political left took decades. The general opinions and political leanings of academics and mainstream media and entertainment personalities are easy to observe. The reaction of public servants to interruptions of the status quo is easy to observe. It's premature to conclude that corrections to that decades-long movement weaken rather than strengthen the institutions of the US as they ought to be under the conditions provided by the US constitution.
replaced with an unaccountable DOGE that is subject neither to Senate confirmation nor any meaningful oversight.
"DOGE" is basically the USDS. Not much point criticizing it without first taking the time to understand what authorities the USDS has, and what authority the president has to hire people beyond the narrow confines of customary political appointments and career civil servants. Hint: he has authority.
Career civil servants are fired and replaced with lackeys whose foremost (and sometimes sole) job qualification are political loyalty. Executuve appointment candidates are subjected to questionnaires designed to assess their compliance with the new politics more than their qualifications and suitability for the tangible demands of the role, well over and above any political assessment or vetting that is the norm. Senior Justice and law enforcement officials are fired for having been part of lawful investigations that are seen as politically disloyal.
Unfortunate, but inevitable. It's easy to see the effect, but how many people acknowledge the cause - egregious conduct by executive branch appointees and employees during the first Trump administration. I suppose they, and the people who supported their actions, never remotely believed there would be a "find out" phase.
Things we’ll be watching for now as major red flags will be abject defiance of judicial decisions; reversal of historically stable constitutional protections; capture of the legislature such that it becomes a rubber stamp that tolerates and enables executive overreach.
Good luck. None of that is going to happen on a scale that matters.
We’re already seeing degradation there though, such as in the Eric Adams case.
Eric Adams got on a Democratic sh!t list because he stopped playing along with the fight against immigrants being shipped into NY. Otherwise, I suspect his transgressions - which reach back almost a decade, thus providing ample opportunity for officials to have taken them up - would continue to have been quietly tolerated. It's just funny that their bid to punish him for going off script might be yanked away - corruption tolerated by one kind of corruption until it became inconvenient becomes tolerated by another kind of corruption.
We will watch the midterms nervously and hope that whatever the constitution of the next Congress is, it’s one that stands up for the division of powers between branches, and for its own oversight roles.
Again, good luck. For a couple of decades both parties have been folding in Congress to the president when he is of their party. This is not a new problem.
You and some others will speak up at every step talking about why it cannot actually be what it’s taking the appearance of. In the absence of a perfect analogy for a Reichstag fire or a March on Rome, you’ll go to the ends of the earth to convince us that if history doesn’t repeat, it also cannot possibly rhyme.
Pretty much all of these symptoms have been in evidence for the past couple of decades; it's just that people choose not to recognize them when someone of whom they approve - Obama, Biden - is at the helm.

I reiterate my long-held opinion: if fascism comes to America, it will be brought by the political left. They're the ones who own the long-term efforts to control institutions; they're the ones who want to limit constitutional freedoms (particularly 1A and 2A); they're the ones who talk about court-packing; they're the ones who think a legislative term that doesn't monotonically expand government reach is a term wasted.
 
There’s a lot of stops on the authoritarian train before one gets to Genocide Station. It might not even reach there, but it still won’t be a nice place to live. I don’t think Hungary is much of a police state, in that dissidents aren’t being thrown into gulags, but otherwise, Orban’s control of the institutions is near total.
It usually doesn’t reach there. That’s not an end state I see for the U.S.; not because people cannot be motivated to sufficient hate (I think any population potentially can) but simply that genocide is bad for business, and an eventual American autocracy would be oligarchical in nature.

Never in my life have I wanted so badly to be completely wrong about something, by the way. I would truly love if four years from now I look back on these concerns and feel like a complete fool.
 
There’s a lot of stops on the authoritarian train before one gets to Genocide Station. It might not even reach there, but it still won’t be a nice place to live. I don’t think Hungary is much of a police state, in that dissidents aren’t being thrown into gulags, but otherwise, Orban’s control of the institutions is near total.
Genocide isn’t something limited to authoritarian organizations, as much as people like to believe it is only limited to such, it is a completely separate thing.

Democracies have been involved (Canada, USA, Israel, UK, etc.), Communists have been involved (USSR, China, etc.), and Fascists have been involved (Germany, etc.).
 
There’s a lot of stops on the authoritarian train before one gets to Genocide Station. It might not even reach there, but it still won’t be a nice place to live. I don’t think Hungary is much of a police state, in that dissidents aren’t being thrown into gulags, but otherwise, Orban’s control of the institutions is near total.
Historically the US had no issues with “genocide” when it came to manifest destiny. They have had it in them but I doubt it will reach that sort of level so I agree with you on that.
 
A post of mine re: Hesgeth was removed; my apologies.

Rephrasing: sufficiently significant credible concerns about Hesgeth’s conduct have been raised that he may not survive confirmation, and the incoming administration is probably assessing whether he is, in fact, a pick they want to remain committed to or whether they should switch up.

Reporting last night has Trump considering Ron DeSantis for the role instead:


DeSantis has both active and reserve military service as JAG counsel and deployed to Guantanamo and Iraq. He of course has considerable governmental experience.

I was waiting for Hesgeth to deploy the 'knife hand' - as he did during his 'trial by Congress' - and it seemed he was restraining the urge, alot, during his speech to NATO...

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This a interview I just watched, and I am not sure if it has been posted before and most of us agree with the content just the public seems to have their heads in the ground and government seem not to want to do anything about it.

 
This a interview I just watched, and I am not sure if it has been posted before and most of us agree with the content just the public seems to have their heads in the ground and government seem not to want to do anything about it.


Meanwhile, also Steve Bannon...


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