"Toronto 18" terrorists: Arrest/court/aftermath

[Staff Weenie]

Just as a question - at what point does 'radical' or 'extremist' become mainstream?

For example, if one person in 10,000 or 1,000 believe they need to blow up a police station is that radical? Probably.

What if it's one in 10 who believe that violence is an acceptable tool?

What if 1 in 10 tacitly support it through their silence - or by actually inviting inciteful or hateful speakers to a mosque, or allowing them to speak without standing up and protesting or walking out. In Toronto, they were allowing what amounts to hate literature to be distributed at youth gatherings for Muslim men.....

I've not read all the details, but this man stood up and tried to make a difference for the better. And if the people in his mosque think he's a traitor, then perhaps they'd like to book the next flight to Pakistan or Saudi and live there.

 

[geo]

I know that, you know that but..... it still hurts the feelings of those too close to the issue.

C'est la vie!

 

[edgar]

As I understand it, in prisons and criminal gangs being a "rat" is worse than being a rapist. If people in his mosque display a similar attitude, for whatever reason, these people need careful watching.

Believe it or not, many of Army.ca's readers are in a similar situation (of course less "visibly"). The Oklahoma city bombing made gun-totin rednecks everywhere look bad. No, I'm not trying be a smart-ass. Would I be pissed off if somebody in my church found some sort of aryan nation cell and exposed a plot to blow up a mosque (or more likely a synagogue)? Absolutely, but not at the guy who maybe saved some lives.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

and reinforced the image of Muslims as terrorists

Ah yes, the "backlash" argument; so we shall no longer investigate or act to stop suspected terrorist activities where Muslims are involved ... it would encourage racism.

 

[observor 69]

Real life saga:

http://www.bloggingtories.ca/btFrameset.php?URL=http://pumpkin-watch.blogspot.com/2007/02/little-cell-in-city.html&title=Little%20Cell%20in%20the%20City

Now "coming from the CBC" let's hear from professional journalists:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/toronto-bomb-plot/shaikh.html

INDEPTH: TORONTO BOMB PLOT
Mubin Shaikh, bomb plot mole

CBC News Online | July 15, 2006


Mubin Shaikh is an observant Muslim and activist for Shariah law in Ontario. He was born in Toronto, the son of immigrant parents who came to Canada in the 1970s.
He was also a paid police informant who helped infiltrate a group of 17 Muslim men and youth now charged with orchestrating a terrorist plot targeting Toronto and Ottawa.

On July 13, 2006, Shaikh spoke to Linden McIntyre of CBC's The Fifth Estate.

Shaikh speaks with the accent and inflection of a young man born and raised in multicultural Toronto, but wears the long beard and grey robes of a devout Muslim.

Mubin Shaikh spoke exclusively to Linden McIntyre of CBC's The Fifth Estate. (CBC) The contrast between the way he looks and the way he sounds reveals something about the environment where he grew up.

Shaikh attended public schools in Toronto and as a teenager lived a typical high school life, he said.

See link for more.

 

[The_Falcon]

shared with the usual proviso

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2008/09/25/6875821.html

Guilty verdict in Brampton terror trial
By DON PEAT, Sun Media

Last Updated: 25th September 2008, 11:14am

The first member of the "Toronto 18" to stand trial has been found guilty of terrorism charges.

Superior Court Justice John Sproat read the verdict this morning in Brampton.

Immediately after reading his finding Sproat said the defence has filed an application charging abuse of process that stays the decision until a December hearing.

The 20-year-old Scarborough man, arrested as a teen, is the first of the so-called "Toronto 18" to stand trial - and the only young offender.

Seven, including three other youths, have had their charges stayed. Ten still await trial.

The Crown had alleged the accused was indoctrinated by one of the group leaders and did his bidding by shoplifting supplies for the two terrorist training camps he attended in Washago in December 2005 and again outside of Guelph about two weeks before the roundup of the accused in June 2006.

Defence counsel Mitchell Chernovsky had described his client as "naive" and "not street smart" about terrorist activities that were a "jihadi fantasy" of thet group's leader.

 

[GAP]

Defence counsel Mitchell Chernovsky had described his client as "naive" and "not street smart" about terrorist activities that were a "jihadi fantasy" of thet group's leader

So.....they should get off because they are dumb?.....

 

[The_Falcon]

more from Citynews.ca

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_27245.aspx

Guilty Verdict In First 'Toronto 18' Terror Trial
Thursday September 25, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff

The first member of the so-called "Toronto 18" to stand trial was found guilty in an alleged plot that authorities claim included plans to bomb buildings in the GTA, storm Parliament and behead the prime minister.

The man, now 20, can't be named because he was 17 at the time of his arrest, pleaded not guilty to the charges. His lawyers tried to paint the alleged plan as nothing more than mere fantasy, but Ontario Superior Court Justice John Sproat wasn't convinced and handed down a guilty verdict Thursday morning in a Brampton courtroom.

This trial was the first real test of Canada's new anti-terrorism rules put in place after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. In his ruling, Sproat said there was no doubt the young man was an active member of the group and was aware of its allegedly deadly goals.

A wide sweeping publication ban is still in place due to the man's young offender status and the pending trials of 10 other suspects, including the alleged ringleaders.

Outside of the courthouse the Crown's star witness, Mubin Shaikh, said he disagreed with the judgment. The RCMP informant who infiltrated the group said he didn't believe the young man was a terrorist.

Sproat described Shaikh as a truthful witness who gave credible evidence.

The so-called "Toronto 18" was arrested in June 2006. Since then, charges have been dropped or stayed against seven of the original suspects.

 

[Klinkaroo]

So.....they should get off because they are dumb?.....

Doesn't the law say the Ignorance is not an excuse?

 

[ArmyRick]

I agree. Pleading ignorance is no excuse otherwise everybody would use the excuse.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Doesn't the law say the Ignorance is not an excuse?

Exactly,

Video of "Terror Training Camp" in Ontario, Canada

If they did not know what the hell they were doing, don't video tape it, otherwise it can be used to prove the lie....

dileas

tess

 

[twistedcables]

A VICTORY for the country's intelligence and law enforcement and a wake up call to all those who think it was setup/made up.  A PROOF that the threat is very real and that the only reason we have been safe is NOT because the terrorists are too stupid but rather, because the authorities are so good at what they do.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/09/25/toronto-terror.html  Look for DOCUMENTS: SPROAT VERDICT for a full read.

The judge said the evidence of a group conspiring to attack was OVERWHELMING and that the RCMP agent (himself very Muslim) went undercover, "...as a result of religious conviction that terrorism was contrary to Islamic principles and a corollary sense of civic obligation".  Judge Sproat added that Mubin Shaikh "...exhibited a great number of the hallmarks of a truthful witness...", that he was "...educated and intelligent...", and that he was found to be "a truthful and generally reliable witness".

While this is far from over - a very welcome development indeed!

 

[danchapps]

Good! It's just too bad that the Libs went and made the young offenders act so nice for the perps, because as far as I'm concerned if you do something this outrageously stupid their names and faces deserve to be published in all forms of media. Enjoy prison pal!

 

[1feral1]

Good evening to all valued members and respected guests.

Being found guilty is one thing, sentancing is another. We'll see what examples will follow the sentancing.

I think we all can agree that Canada must send a clear and present example to the world, regardless of religion of any type of terrorist found guilty of such a crime against the nation as a whole. I am hoping for the maximun pentalty, but I won't hold my breath.

We must remember, we are not punishing a religion, but a terrorist regardless of his faith. If this still antagonises muslims who feel hard done by this court case, and believe these men are all squeaky clean and not capable to comitting such crimes, thats just too bad. Even Hilter was loved by his family and friends.

However, knowing our legal system, the sentance will not match the crime.

I will hold commenting until this comes.

OWDU

 

[geo]

However, knowing our legal system, the sentance will not match the crime

I'm with you Wes.  People will say that there was no crime - that they were misguided & woulod never do such things as they themselves threatened to do

BUT the only reason there was no spectacular terrorist / criminal event is cause the authorities were able to shut the cell down before they acted.

Throw the book at em IMHO

 

[axeman]

And now its back to will the time fot the crime . These ppl were planning on MURDERING  will they get a slap on  the wrist or will it be a real punishment and be life , which is what they were planning on taking away from someone?

 

[twistedcables]

Hmmmm.....strangely, the verdict is no longer available on the website.  Methinks they were not supposed to have posted it.

Good thing I tend to save documents like that.

Anyone interested in the verdict itself, can PM me.

 

[George Wallace]

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

RCMP Informant calls teen terror suspects 'sheep'

January 30, 2009

By THE CANADIAN PRESS

 
BRAMPTON, Ont. - An RCMP informant who was instrumental in helping authorities crack a home-grown terrorist plot has begun testifying about his role.

Mubin Shaikh says he gained the trust of the so-called Toronto 18 leaders because of his knowledge of extremist Islam, his martial-arts and army-cadet background, and his licence to buy weapons.

He described meeting the men in December 2005 at the request of Canada's spy agency.

Shaikh described the teen suspects as "sheep" who did not say anything and appeared clueless about the terrorist aspirations of the adults.

One of them was a youth found guilty last fall of aiding and abetting a terrorist group.

The defence wants charges against the youth stayed on the grounds that Shaikh helped entrap him, and committed criminal acts by buying guns and helping the teen fire a weapon.

Shaikh said the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and RCMP, for whom he worked as a paid informant, showed no concern about the teens.

"There were no discussions as to their age or perceived vulnerability," Shaikh, 33, told the court.

"(But) I consistently made reference to various degrees of involvement and commitment to the cause."

The youth, a Hindu convert to Islam, was 17 at the time and cannot be identified because of his age. The court has also ordered non-publication of the group's alleged leaders, who have yet to stand trial.

The Toronto-born Shaikh helped set up a winter camp north of Toronto in December 2005 which the prosecution has said was for terrorist training.

Over the summer of 2006, police arrested 18 people in the Toronto area and charged them with various terrorist-related offences.

They said they had foiled a plot that involved truck-bombings in downtown Toronto, storming Parliament and taking hostages, and attacking nuclear power plants.

LINK

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Nobody else in Canada has to be responsible for their actions.  Why should these clowns be any different?

 

[geo]

I am responsible for my own actions and will/would be held responsibel for anything I ahve said and/or done

Time that these young men are taught the 1st (and most painful) lesson in responsibility.

Watch the fingers as they close the cell doors !