The War in Ukraine

[MilEME09]

So NATO slowly advancing east towards Russia over the past decades has nothing to do with it? Ok.

NATO didn't advance anywhere, it's a defensive alliance, that members freely join. Oh and before you even try to bring it up, there was no promise to not expand NATO when the Soviet union fell. Gorbachov himself confirmed that in an interview with German TV.

 

[Quirky]

NATO didn't advance anywhere, it's a defensive alliance, that members freely join. Oh and before you even try to bring it up, there was no promise to not expand NATO when the Soviet union fell.

Choices have consequences.

 

[KevinB]

Eastern Shield Alliance?

by Benjamin Cook

open.substack.com

 

[MrWhyt]

Territories are won and lost throughout the history of people kind. Ukraine isn't getting back the eastern part of the country through military force.

so you wish to reward putin for murdering ukrainian civillians. If someone broke into your house, killed your wife/dog, and stole your children would you surrender the living room to them in order to achieve peace? Especially without any guarantees that in 5 months when he's regained his strength he won't come back for the rest of your stuff.

 

[Quirky]

so you wish to reward putin for murdering ukrainian civillians. If someone broke into your house, killed your wife/dog, and stole your children would you surrender the living room to them in order to achieve peace? Especially without any guarantees that in 5 months when he's regained his strength he won't come back for the rest of your stuff.

Yup just keep this war going and more lives will be lost, on both sides. Do you really believe that Ukraine will gain back the eastern Donbas? I know you're, along with the democrats, are okay with sacrificing more Ukrainians to the cause. January 20th can't come soon enough.

 

[MilEME09]

Choices have consequences.

You mean like invading a sovereign nation? Like using the Geneva Conventions like a check list? Like committing Genocide as per the Rome stature?

 

[Remius]

Yup just keep this war going and more lives will be lost, on both sides. Do you really believe that Ukraine will gain back the eastern Donbas? I know you're, along with the democrats, are okay with sacrificing more Ukrainians to the cause. January 20th can't come soon enough.

Yes. I am sure you really care about the Ukrainians….

The fact that you won’t even acknowledge that Russia is the aggressor and excuse their actions tells us an enough about how much you care.

 

[MrWhyt]

Yup just keep this war going and more lives will be lost, on both sides. Do you really believe that Ukraine will gain back the eastern Donbas? I know you're, along with the democrats, are okay with sacrificing more Ukrainians to the cause.

There is a simple solution: russia fucks off out of ukraine, ukraine joins NATO, russia fucks off forever. What's wrong with that peace plan?

January 20th can't come soon enough.

so even trump supporters believe he's going to roll over for putin.

 

[GR66]

Yup just keep this war going and more lives will be lost, on both sides. Do you really believe that Ukraine will gain back the eastern Donbas? I know you're, along with the democrats, are okay with sacrificing more Ukrainians to the cause. January 20th can't come soon enough.

It's not the West that is in some way pushing the Ukrainians to defend themselves and try their best to fight off Russian aggression. They've been defending themselves since the initial 2014 invasion, so it's not "us" just "keeping this war going". Are we assisting the Ukrainians in their efforts to defend themselves? Absolutely. Stopping assisting them won't magically stop the Ukrainians from dying in defence of their homeland it will simply either cause more of them to be killed and more of their territory to be lost.

Is it likely that Ukraine will gain back all their lost territory militarily? Not likely. Just like any war there will ultimately have to be some type of political settlement (short of the total defeat of Ukraine) and there's a good chance that it will result in some territorial concessions (at least until Putin is dead and buried...who knows what is possible under some future Russian regime). However, the better the Ukrainians are able to defend themselves (with our assistance) the more just the political settlement will be.

You seem to be pretty OK with stronger nations taking what they want from weaker nations by force and committing war crimes against civilian populations. It makes me wonder why you chose a career in the military. By the logic you're putting forward regarding the Ukraine War what's the big deal if Russia or China were to want to attack Canada? They're strong militarily and we're weak by comparison so if they want to take our resources why should we fight back and cause loss of life on both sides?

 

[The Bread Guy]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-launches-intercontinental-ballistic-missile-attack-ukraine-kyiv-says-2024-11-21/

Message, sent.

 

[Quirky]

There is a simple solution: russia fucks off out of ukraine, ukraine joins NATO, russia fucks off forever. What's wrong with that peace plan?

You going to make Russia fuck off from Ukraine? Good luck with that peace plan. How many more years of war are you okay with? How many more billions of dollars must be spent?

Yes. I am sure you really care about the Ukrainians….

The fact that you won’t even acknowledge that Russia is the aggressor and excuse their actions tells us an enough about how much you care.

I'm Ukrainian and still have relatives there, so yes I have a small stake in all this. Russia is the aggressor, however they aren't 100% at fault with NATO expansionism on their border. Ukraine must deal with the fact that they'll lose territory.

By the logic you're putting forward regarding the Ukraine War what's the big deal if Russia or China were to want to attack Canada?

Canada needs to pull it's head out of it's ass, the only thing we have going for us is geography. Nothing will stop China or Russia and I wouldn't count on the US under Trump to step in. We've already been warned to step up military spending.

 

[vonGarvin]

...

 

[MrWhyt]

You going to make Russia fuck off from Ukraine? Good luck with that peace plan. How many more years of war are you okay with? How many more billions of dollars must be spent?

so again your peace plan is: reward putin for killing ukrainian civillians. Russia chose to invade, russia can choose to fuck off. How much of your home would you surrender for a extremely dubious "peace" with an invader? the living room, the kitchen? your wife's side of the bed?

 

[MilEME09]

You going to make Russia fuck off from Ukraine? Good luck with that peace plan. How many more years of war are you okay with? How many more billions of dollars must be spent?



I'm Ukrainian and still have relatives there, so yes I have a small stake in all this. Russia is the aggressor, however they aren't 100% at fault with NATO expansionism on their border. Ukraine must deal with the fact that they'll lose territory.



Canada needs to pull it's head out of it's ass, the only thing we have going for us is geography. Nothing will stop China or Russia and I wouldn't count on the US under Trump to step in. We've already been warned to step up military spending.

So all you care is the cost? News flash NATO didn't make Russia do anything, Russia invaded Ukraine and is committing the 3rd genocide by Russia against Ukraine in the last 100 years. This war is 100% Russia's fault, not America, not NATO not the CIA, Russia. Anything to the contrary is nothing more the Russian misinformation designed to make it look like the victim. Igor Girkin himself stated the Dombas would of been over in 2015 if Russia didn't send in its army as "volunteers " to keep the conflict going.

A strong, prosperous, democratic Ukraine was a threat to Russia. Russia then took crimea for its natural gas deposits, and it wants the donbas for the iron ore. By taking eastern and southern Ukraine, Russia would ensure Ukraine is economically at its mercy forever and can be controlled.

 

[lenaitch]

New administration in the US is coming in, let's allow long-range US weapon strikes into Russia and start a nuclear war! Trump needs to kick these incompetent imbeciles out of the white house and end this ridiculous war. The Dems won't rest until the US is directly involved.

So you're not in favour of a peaceful transition of power?

 

[Quirky]

so again your peace plan is: reward putin for killing ukrainian civillians. Russia chose to invade, russia can choose to fuck off. How much of your home would you surrender for a extremely dubious "peace" with an invader? the living room, the kitchen? your wife's side of the bed?

Russia isn't going to choose to fuck off. The only way Russia will fuck off is with military force, Ukraine on their own is not capable. Are you willing to commit NATO forces into direct combat vs Russia, I'm not.

I'm not surprised people on an Army forum want wars to continue, I wonder how many here joined during the Afghanistan years to specifically WANT to deploy overseas?

 

[MrWhyt]

Russia isn't going to choose to fuck off.

well thats their problem.

I'm not surprised people on an Army forum want wars to continue

I would suggest that military people know that freedom is something that must be fought for. Not military myself but wouldn't be here without people fighting for the liberation of the netherlands.

 

[Cdn_Merchant_Navy Guy]

You going to make Russia fuck off from Ukraine? Good luck with that peace plan. How many more years of war are you okay with? How many more billions of dollars must be spent?



I'm Ukrainian and still have relatives there, so yes I have a small stake in all this. Russia is the aggressor, however they aren't 100% at fault with NATO expansionism on their border. Ukraine must deal with the fact that they'll lose territory.



Canada needs to pull it's head out of it's ass, the only thing we have going for us is geography. Nothing will stop China or Russia and I wouldn't count on the US under Trump to step in. We've already been warned to step up military spending.

You haven't answered the question that was put to you by GR66.
"By the logic you're putting forward regarding the Ukraine War what's the big deal if Russia or China were to want to attack Canada?"

 

[Quirky]

I would suggest that military people know that freedom is something that must be fought for. Not military myself but wouldn't be here without people fighting for the liberation of the netherlands.

Sending weapons and money alone won't be enough to regain territories lost. Ukraine doesn't have the manpower on the ground.

You haven't answered the question that was put to you by GR66.
"By the logic you're putting forward regarding the Ukraine War what's the big deal if Russia or China were to want to attack Canada?"

I already answered it. Canada needs a military for homeland defense, which we are lacking. It's not right to attack other countries, but it's been happening throughout human history. Canadian borders CAN be lost if we aren't prepared.

 

[KevinB]

Russia isn't going to choose to fuck off. The only way Russia will fuck off is with military force, Ukraine on their own is not capable. Are you willing to commit NATO forces into direct combat vs Russia, I'm not.

With that attitude 80 years ago, Europe would be speaking German.

I'm not surprised people on an Army forum want wars to continue, I wonder how many here joined during the Afghanistan years to specifically WANT to deploy overseas?

My first response to you was deleted, as apparently calling a spade a spade isn’t tolerated here anymore.