The US Presidency 2020

[Jarnhamar]

The problem are the governors in some states that are ignoring the rights of its citizens. Thus the protests. In Virginia the Governor has violated the 2d amendment rights. In Michigan you can get an abortion but not buy seeds for plating a garden but you can buy pot or alcohol.

There's pictures and videos of people buying seeds in Michagin. [ https://www.clickondetroit.com/features/2020/04/16/did-michigan-ban-gardening-debunking-4-coronavirus-claims-spread-on-social-media/ ]

People are upset anf ready to riot because they think they can't plant grass seeds in the middle of a pandemic  :

 

[mariomike]

The problem are the governors in some states that are ignoring the rights of its citizens. Thus the protests. In Virginia the Governor has violated the 2d amendment rights. In Michigan you can get an abortion but not buy seeds for plating a garden but you can buy pot or alcohol.

All very interesting.

But, how does protesting states that are not Republican controlled, arguing about gun politics, abortion, gardening, drugs and alcohol help "flatten the curve"?

 

[tomahawk6]

I was just stating that overreach by some governors were causing citizens to stand up for their rights. After a month in lockdown people rea ready to go to theaters and restraunts. The curve has flattened in many states. Last time I looked the US was still a democracy. Go back in time to the revolution which saw citizens protesting what they felt to be an unjust King George.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fomenting-domestic-rebellion-dem-governor-inslee-says

 

[Remius]

This is why the US has the highest amount of deaths and cases in the western world.

“My right to guns, seeds and tailgate parties outweighs the public health of the country”.

 

[Jarnhamar]

People who are suffering are being made to wait longer so the president can put his name on the checks. That's democracy in action.

 

[brihard]

All very interesting.

But, how does protesting states that are not Republican controlled, gun politics, abortion, gardening, drugs and alcohol help "flatten the curve"?

It doesn't, obviously. And the hideous irony is that these mass protests provide a fertile breeding ground for the virus to spread. New infection chains will likely begin and thrive from these sorts of gatherings for at least the three weeks or so that it will take for it to become apparent that they are a ready source for spread.

It's important to recognize that Michigan, Virginia, and Minnesota are all battleground states in the upcoming election, and all three have Democrat governors. In the midst of the virus, Trump still has to try to rally his base, to drive wedges, and to blow up issues that will get voters out in November. The politicking has not stopped in the midst of all of the events going on. Michigan elected Trump by an extremely narrow margin. Virginia and Minnesota both went Democrat by somewhat larger margins, but are still in contention. It's very much in Trump's interest to try to discredit the states' democrat governors, to try to portray successful Federal handling of the crisis, and to get his base as riled up as possible.

Amid all this, Trump's personality and motivations have not changed in any fundamental way. He will remain primarily concerned with his own political self preservation, particularly the election in November. He has not suddenly become more temperamentally capable of dealing with disagreement or perceived defiance from those he believes (out of his apparent woefully lacking understanding of the Constitution) to be his governmental or political lessers or subordinates. He has not suddenly become not vindictive to those who oppose him. He has not suddenly ceased to be willing to use crass populism and rabble rousing to get his base angry and acting in accordance with his interest versus society's. He has not suddenly become unwilling to lie, dissimulate, fabricate, or exaggerate if he deems it to suit his purpose.

So, between now and November, we can expect his provocations and attacks on governors and other political figures to continue, so long as it suits his highest purpose- getting what he wants. Pandemic be damned.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Just like the other political party has done since this thing started...…"move along folks, nothing new down here."

 

[Remius]

Trump can’t hold his rallies right now.  So he uses his 2hrs of corona virus updates to campaign.  He tweets inflammatory stuff.  Incites the mob during the greatest crisis since WW2.

What a leader...

 

[mariomike]

I was just stating that overreach by some governors were causing citizens to stand up for their rights. After a month in lockdown people rea ready to go to theaters and restraunts. The curve has flattened in many states. Last time I looked the US was still a democracy. Go back in time to the revolution which saw citizens protesting what they felt to be an unjust King George.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fomenting-domestic-rebellion-dem-governor-inslee-says

Thank-you for your reply, T6.

17 years ago, there were no plans for dealing with a pandemic. At least, not where I live and worked.

That is no longer the case.

My heroes back then were Toronto's medical officer of health, the late Dr. Sheela Basrur, and the late Dr. Don Lowe, a microbiologist at Mount Sinai Hospital studying the outbreak.

They were instrumental in containing both the outbreak, and the potential panic.

That's the way I feel about the US and Canadian scientists of today.

I do not include Dr. Oz or Dr. Phil in that category.

Trump can’t hold his rallies right now.  So he uses his 2hrs of corona virus updates to campaign.  He tweets inflammatory stuff.  Incites the mob during the greatest crisis since WW2.

What a leader...

Fought by the Greatest Generation of Americans.

Interesting to note how many presidents served in the war,

Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush 41. And Truman fought in WW1.

 

[tomahawk6]

No one faulted FDR and his fireside chats. Trump as a leader is keeping the folks up to date on the effort to destroy the virus. Increasingly we shall find that this virus came from a Chinese bio lab. Germ warfare is one way to weaken an enemy. Previous epidemics also came from China so this is a lesson well learned about supply chains that are vulnerable. After this our PPE and drugs will not be made in China. 3M has a surgical mask factory in Canada which could benefit from the realignment of supply chains. The Federal government is buying masks,gowns, gloves for the national stockpile,as well as ventalators. I know when my mom was in the hospital recently for low oxygen levels they used a cpap mask which did the trick.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

No one faulted FDR and his fireside chats. Trump as a leader is keeping the folks up to date on the effort to destroy the virus. Increasingly we shall find that this virus came from a Chinese bio lab. Germ warfare is one way to weaken an enemy. Previous epidemics also came from China so this is a lesson well learned about supply chains that are vulnerable. After this our PPE and drugs will not be made in China. 3M has a surgical mask factory in Canada which could benefit from the realignment of supply chains. The Federal government is buying masks,gowns, gloves for the national stockpile,as well as ventalators. I know when my mom was in the hospital recently for low oxygen levels they used a cpap mask which did the trick.

This site is not a venue for promoting conspiracies and helping the spread of mis/disinformation in any form.

Kindly spout that garbage elsewhere.

Staff

 

[Jarnhamar]

Sorry T6 your man Trump is more concerned about making himself look good. The only thing he is trying to keep people up to date about is how amazing he is.

 

[dimsum]

Trump as a leader is keeping the folks up to date on the effort to destroy the virus.

Take a look at the Canadian, NZ, or German leaders on how to keep folks up to date without being political.

 

[Remius]

The task force and Pence even give good info and updates.  But you have to put up with an hour of political campaigning and lashing out before you can get to that.

 

[Blackadder1916]

No one faulted FDR and his fireside chats. . . .

If only the current president limited his version of fireside chats to the same frequency as President Roosevelt who, during 4,422 days as president, made 30 radio addresses that are characterized as the "fireside chats".  And that's during a period that included the Great Depression and a World War.

This excerpt from FDR's radio address of May 26, 1940 may seem prescient.

https://youtu.be/SzK9VqPbuUw?list=PL3833257914F80DA9&t=160 


Edited to add the transcript of the address that I linked to.

http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/052640.html

. . .
But there is an added technique for weakening a nation at its very roots, for disrupting the entire pattern of life of a people. And it is important that we understand it.

The method is simple. It is, first, discord, a dissemination of discord. A group --not too large -- a group that may be sectional or racial or political -- is encouraged to exploit (their) its prejudices through false slogans and emotional appeals. The aim of those who deliberately egg on these groups is to create confusion of counsel, public indecision, political paralysis and eventually, a state of panic.

Sound national policies come to be viewed with a new and unreasoning skepticism, not through the wholesome (political) debates of honest and free men, but through the clever schemes of foreign agents.
. . .

 

[Brad Sallows]

>was it responsible or irresponsible of the President of the United States to tweet “LIBERATE” with those three states’ names, and to refer to the Second Amendment being under threat in one of them?

Irresponsible.  The ideas could easily have been expressed within the limits of a tweet in reasonable terms.  But it's beside my main point, which is to stop using Trump as a scapegoat/shield for others' mistakes and bad judgement.  Have I not been clear enough that the focus should be taken off Trump and directed where it might do the most good?

1. Trump's rhetoric adds to the collective bad mood.
2. Trump's rhetoric is only a very small part of all the things aggravating the collective bad mood.
3. If the collective bad mood spills over, it's going to be overwhelmingly because of the stress induced by other factors.
4. It's a simple bang-for-buck estimate.  To prevent the mood from spilling over, fix the other factors.  Don't allow the people responsible to point at Trump and say, "It's his fault".

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Amid all this, Trump's personality and motivations have not changed in any fundamental way. He will remain primarily concerned with his own political self preservation, particularly the election in November.

Your post is essentially correct.  And, that particular sentiment applies to both parties and their supporters.  Joe Biden's media supporters are having a hard time convincing people who are conventionally on the same side in politics that they have responsibly handled and reported the accusations against Joe Biden.  The House Democrats were unable to resist dropping their wish list into the first relief bill, and unable to resist adding demands to a simple extension of funding for an already authorized relief program. 

It's an election year, with a major long-lasting crisis evolving.  I can not conceive of either party, or any presidential candidate or campaign, not exploiting the events of the day for maximum political advantage.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

A rule being followed by every political faction in every country right now: "Don't let a good crisis go to waste"

As for Trump, I expected re-election of him, hard to say for now what peoples opinion will be come election, as the British PM said once: "Events my dear boy, events". Both parties could see their primary candidates for the position of POTUS taken out by the virus. China could lash out doing something really stupid. If the genetic evidence of the virus shows that it was tampered with by humans and released accidentally(most likely) or otherwise (very unlikely), then that will also play out in favour of Trump.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>This site is not a venue for promoting conspiracies and helping the spread of mis/disinformation in any form.

Like a risk of armed revolution?

Seriously:
1. Reasonable evidence exists that shows the point of origin may have been a research lab.
2. No reasonable evidence exists that shows the virus was engineered as a bio-weapon.  Rather, evidence suggests merely that safety standards may have been insufficient or not strictly observed.
3. The fact that some epidemics originate in China should be unsurprising, given a large population living in high densities.
4. Obviously other epidemics originate primarily elsewhere (eg. African haemmorhagic fevers).

Assuming the person is as claimed and is truthful, the comments by "Sure" in this post at Marginal Revolution provide some background on where mistakes and deliberate harm have occurred.

 

[Brad Sallows]

People are upset about gardening supplies in Michigan because the governor's order made them believe they could not buy gardening supplies.  Was their interpretation reasonable?

The first numbered section of the order is unambiguous about on which side to err when judging permitted/not permitted: "1. This order must be construed broadly to prohibit in-person work that is not necessary to sustain or protect life."

The second includes: "2. Subject to the exceptions in section 7 of this order, all individuals currently living within the State of Michigan are ordered to stay at home or at their place of residence."

So: stay at home, unless excepted for necessities (essential activities).

Section 7 (the list of exceptions) does not include recreational gardening and landscaping.

Section 11: "Any store that remains open for in-person sales under section 5 or 9(f) of this order must:", sub (d)(2): "For stores of more than 50,000 square feet:" ... "Close areas of the store...that are dedicated to the following classes of goods:" ... "Garden centers and plant nurseries."

5: "To perform tasks that are necessary to their health and safety" captures the gist of it.  To me, that means I can go to Home Depot to buy, for example, safety equipment.

9(f): refers to "Workers at retail stores who sell groceries, medical supplies, and products necessary to maintain the safety, sanitation, and basic operation of residences", a list on which I do not see recreational gardening, or things like landscaping and home renovation.

Whitmer could, at any time very early on, have made a brief appearance to clarify that in spite of being ordered to stay home except for essential reasons, going to the big box store to buy gardening supplies was allowed, even if you weren't allowed to go into the garden area and had to pre-shop using the online catalog or get into a long Q-and-A with a store worker (ie. lengthen the duration of exposure!).  But, Politifact to the rescue, explaining that people are just wrong to have interpreted the order to mean it's not OK to go to a store to do non-essential shopping for items you're not allowed to browse.