The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged

[brave little soldier]

Rep for the Hudson Bay Co. has a very difficult name to pronounce. I doubt that any of his forefathers lived in Canada in the 1940's or 1950's. In fact I could wager that none of the Recent Canadian members of his family ever served in Canada's Forces. You have not seen names like that in the news covering Canadian Dead or Injured so far. NOT ONE!!!!! They only come here to reap the benefits that veterans have fought for and demand their rights.

This comment is quite strong and I do hope that members will object to it and that it will be edited.

 

[The Bread Guy]

"Rep for the Hudson Bay Co. has a very difficult name to pronounce. I doubt that any of his forefathers lived in Canada in the 1940's or 1950's. In fact I could wager that none of the Recent Canadian members of his family ever served in Canada's Forces. You have not seen names like that in the news covering Canadian Dead or Injured so far. NOT ONE!!!!! They only come here to reap the benefits that veterans have fought for and demand their rights. "

This comment is quite strong and I do hope that members will object to it and that it will be edited.

As the son of someone whose forefathers didn't live in Canada before WW2, and whose father and uncle were prisoners of BOTH sides in said war (as well as having served in the CF myself), I agree with BLS on this.  Thanks for the editing.

 

[1feral1]

I don't care who it is,

You don't care eh??? Thats a pathetic comment, and demonstates a tad of arrogance.

If you punted a Vet for selling poppies at the enterance to your shop, I would never set foot in your shop again, and I'd pass that info around. Word of mouth advertising is proven. Small businesses can especially suffer with poor publicity.

Sir, you did not answer my question.

Instead of dancing around like a politican, please answer.

Thanking you in advance.

OWDU

 

[geo]

Still boils down to a matter of common courtessy.

Someone entering a shop or store to do anything - even collect funds for a charity (any charity) - should introduce himself to the store owner / manager.... what's the vet gonna do when it comes time to needing access to the "loo".... dig a hole & use a grunt pole ??? Of course not - he'll ask for the key.... so he might as well take care of the nicities in advance & have a chat with the manager.

 

[Michael OLeary]

You don't care eh??? Thats a pathetic comment, and demonstates a tad of arrogance.

If you punted a Vet for selling poppies at the enterance to your shop, I would never set foot in your shop again, and I'd pass that info around. Word of mouth advertising is proven. Small businesses can especially suffer with poor publicity.

Sir, you did not answer my question.

Instead of dancing around like a politican, please answer.

Thanking you in advance.

OWDU

Just because an old guy shows up in a store foyer with a box of poppies does not prove that he's a vet, or that he's there as an official representative of the Royal Canadian Legion.  At what point do you consider that the store owner has no right to challenge his unannounced presence, or that the owner shouldn't expect his security staff to follow the instructions they've been issued.

Fundamentally, being there without permission is TRESPASS, and I don't know when that was included as a "freedom" that was fought for in the France and Flanders.

There's a process for gaining permission to sell things on private property that the Legion most likely usually follows.  To not have followed it does not make the store owner immediately at fault for following their own established procedures.  

Wesley, it's time you climbed off your own high horse.

 

[1feral1]

Ok Mick, climbed off,

I am only expressing an important opinion which I feel strongly about.

I agree with the courtesy. As mentioned in my post, should not a generic letter have been sent by the respetive Legion to local businesses?

Either way, I would still not kick anyone out of my foyer of my shop ( I am sure they would ask to sell poppies), and big businesses should no better as far as I am concerned.

No PC BS from me, never has, never will.

Like I said stuff like this never happened when I lived in Canada.

Quite frankly I am ashamed that this Vet was punted from a national icon such as The Bay. They've been in business since 1670.

Regards,

OWDU

Old Vets with Legion blazers and berets with a small platform of poppies at 25C each, are normally not imposters (IMHO anyways).

 

[SupersonicMax]

OWDU:  Some people could probably go as far as disguising themselve....  Not everybody is honest. 

 

[1feral1]

Then how do we police this Max??

I can't see an old bloke with a walker and a small tray ofsome poppies to sell as a criminal.

Selling poppies fraudulently is not a profitable crime is it. However a drug addict knocking over an old bloke, stealing his poppy donations, and running off like a coward is a crime, but again not profitable, but would make headlines just like the disrespect to this Vet in question.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Michael OLeary]

I can't see an old bloke with a walker and a small tray ofsome poppies to sell as a criminal.

I didn't see any walker in the news stories, how about not creating extra details that only serve to invoke emotional reactions.

 

[SupersonicMax]

OWDU:  we police that by companies having people put in requests before they set up booth on their grounds.

 

[Edward Campbell]

This issue gets me into the same dilemma I have here. I don't like so called 'hate speech' but freedom of speech is worthless unless we defend that which offends us most.

The sanctity of property, like ‘freedom of speech’ is one of those core values upon which almost everything else rests. We have been battling ‘they’ over ‘our’ right to use our own property for our own benefit for thousands of years. Property and privacy have been central to the rise of liberal democracy over the past 800 years. The idea that “a man’s home is his castle” and that it is a ‘safe refuge” from “all the king’s men” has been a central principle of our common law since the early 17th century.

Therefore, much as the poppy represents a very great deal to me, personally, I believe that private property and the right of every person to use his own property in his own way, answering to no one, is sacrosanct. So kicking a vet off the premises – kindly and respectfully or not – is the owner’s absolute right. Nothing in any of our service and nothing in sacrifices made by my friends and family is as important.

So, Wes, you’re wrong, and rwgill is on the right side of this issue: standing up for his rights – which are more important than the ‘dignity’ of vets, young or old.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

This issue gets me into the same dilemma I have here. I don't like so called 'hate speech' but freedom of speech is worthless unless we defend that which offends us most.

The sanctity of property, like ‘freedom of speech’ is one of those core values upon which almost everything else rests. We have been battling ‘they’ over ‘our’ right to use our own property for our own benefit for thousands of years. Property and privacy have been central to the rise of liberal democracy over the past 800 years. The idea that “a man’s home is his castle” and that it is a ‘safe refuge” from “all the king’s men” has been a central principle of our common law since the early 17th century.

Therefore, much as the poppy represents a very great deal to me, personally, I believe that private property and the right of every person to use his own property in his own way, answering to no one, is sacrosanct. So kicking a vet off the premises – kindly and respectfully or not – is the owner’s absolute right. Nothing in any of our service and nothing in sacrifices made by my friends and family is as important.

So, Wes, you’re wrong, and rwgill is on the right side of this issue: standing up for his rights – which are more important than the ‘dignity’ of vets, young or old.

And without the sacrifices of those Vets, we could be speaking German and have no freedoms. 

Once again respect for these people is lost on people taking the Law and human rights approach to our current social ineptitude... enjoy your skiing down the slipperly slope..................

Since when is a shopping center "private property" ? I thought it was a public place of commerce and that all are welcome? I give up on this topic. Respect obviously is a lost cause  :-\

Cheers.

 

[George Wallace]

Snafu-Bar

Kid....You really don't have a clue.  Stop now before you disclose it even more and remove all doubt.

And I call you kid, because a 39 year old would not be carrying on like this.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

Snafu-Bar

Kid....You really don't have a clue.  Stop now before you disclose it even more and remove all doubt.

And I call you kid, because a 39 year old would not be carrying on like this.

Say whatever you wish, I washed my hands of the thread.

Obviously some feel differently about how people are treated versus who was in the legal right or wrong at said time.  :

Lock it or delete if you so choose.


Cheers.

 

[Michael OLeary]

And without the sacrifices of those Vets, we could be speaking German and have no freedoms.

Nice oversimplification.  Perhaps you'd like to start a thread somewhere else detailing your alternative history theory of German victory and eventual world domination.

Once again respect for these people is lost on people taking the Law and human rights approach to our current social ineptitude... enjoy your skiing down the slipperly slope..................

Yup, the rule of Law is one dangerous slippery slope.  We'd better crush that soon and enact a meritocracy based on primacy of military service to do as one pleases.

Since when is a shopping center "private property" ? I thought it was a public place of commerce and that all are welcome?

No, it's private property on which the public is invited to come and execute those business transactions for which the place of business exists.  It's not a "public commons".

I give up on this topic.

Thank you, you weren't adding much but static and confusing insertions.

Respect obviously is a lost cause

As you have demonstrated by your avidance of fact based debate.

 

[rwgill]

You don't care eh??? Thats a pathetic comment, and demonstates a tad of arrogance.

If you punted a Vet for selling poppies at the enterance to your shop, I would never set foot in your shop again, and I'd pass that info around. Word of mouth advertising is proven. Small businesses can especially suffer with poor publicity.

Sir, you did not answer my question.

Instead of dancing around like a politican, please answer.

Thanking you in advance.

OWDU

Here's the deal, I would boot out a vet, if I felt that it was required in order to appease:

1.  My business interests; and,
2.  My clientele.

Since my clientele and I have many of the same interests, we have not had a problem  

OWDN, it's not arrogance, it's my business and my livelihood.  Would you crap on your own front lawn?

 

[1feral1]

This issue gets me into the same dilemma I have here. I don't like so called 'hate speech' but freedom of speech is worthless unless we defend that which offends us most.

The sanctity of property, like ‘freedom of speech’ is one of those core values upon which almost everything else rests. We have been battling ‘they’ over ‘our’ right to use our own property for our own benefit for thousands of years. Property and privacy have been central to the rise of liberal democracy over the past 800 years. The idea that “a man’s home is his castle” and that it is a ‘safe refuge” from “all the king’s men” has been a central principle of our common law since the early 17th century.

Therefore, much as the poppy represents a very great deal to me, personally, I believe that private property and the right of every person to use his own property in his own way, answering to no one, is sacrosanct. So kicking a vet off the premises – kindly and respectfully or not – is the owner’s absolute right. Nothing in any of our service and nothing in sacrifices made by my friends and family is as important.

So, Wes, you’re wrong, and rwgill is on the right side of this issue: standing up for his rights – which are more important than the ‘dignity’ of vets, young or old.

I am wrong legally, but morally is another story.

I do feel that permission should be given, but  a Vet with poppies perhaps should have been a 'yes stay' but lets get permission from the manager now to geet the right tick in the box, adn be polite about it.

Punting him was wrong ethically, and IMHO.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Punting him was wrong ethically, and IMHO.

And so is vilifying the store without a fair opportunity to hear their side.

 

[1feral1]

Here's the deal, I would boot out a vet, if I felt that it was required in order to appease:

1.  My business interests; and,
2.  My clientele.

Since my clientele and I have many of the same interests, we have not had a problem  

OWDN, it's not arrogance, it's my business and my livelihood.  Would you crap on your own front lawn?

No I would not, but I would let a vet sell poppies or cadets for that matter, and let other similar causes like cancer and nasty disease fund raisers do the same at the enterance to my shop.

We can agree to disagree rw.

Cheers and regards,

OWDU

 

[George Wallace]

I am wrong legally, but morally is another story.

Sorry Wes, but "legally" beats out "morally" in the Court of Law.

What if this old guy had been a Zut Suiter and Conscientious Objector during the "Big One" and was the ring leader of a bunch of kids (sort of like a Dickens Tale) and he was selling Poppies from a box that his gang of kids had ripped off from the Legionnaire at the Loebs Store five blocks away?