Syria Superthread [merged]

[57Chevy]

                          Shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Harper, Obama call on Assad to step down — but military action ruled out
Steven Edwards/Postmedia News/18 August

http://www.canada.com/news/Harper+Obama+call+Assad+step+down+military+action+ruled/5272684/story.html#ixzz1VQo8BWvj

UNITED NATIONS — The United States on Thursday ruled out launching military action to protect civilians in Syria as it led co-ordinated calls with Canada and other U.S. allies for Syrian President Bashar Assad to step down over the Syrian government's escalating bloody crackdown on peaceful protesters.


While U.S. President Barack Obama said in a statement that Syrian civilians had "braved ferocious brutality at the hands of their government," a senior administration official said during a White House briefing for journalists that the call for Assad's departure did not come with a military protective screen for the protesters.


The position is in stark contrast to that which the United States and many of it allies — among them Canada — took with their decision to launch strikes against Libya to protect Libyan civilians under threat from dictator Moammar Gadhafi's forces.


"I don't think that anybody believes that (military intervention) is the desired course in Syria — not the United States and our allies, nor the Syrian people themselves," said the administration official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton were to be the public faces for the new measures against Syria.


"So the simplest way to bring this to a conclusion is for the Syrian people to get the democratic transition they are demanding and for President Assad to step aside."


Administration officials stressed how the stepped-up pressure on Syria came from a "chorus" of U.S. allies, while Clinton emphasized at a news conference that the United States "understood the strong desire of the Syrian people that no foreign power should intervene in their struggle."


The Syrian crackdown has been one of the bloodiest within the broader Arab Spring uprisings, which have forced the collapse of governments in Tunisia and Egypt, sparked civil war in Libya and significant unrest elsewhere — but which have also hastened substantial reform in Morocco.


The United Nations has said that at least 2,000 people have been killed in Syria since the uprising began in mid-March, and that thousands were missing or detained.


But Obama's statement early Thursday marked the U.S. government's first explicit call for Assad to step down. Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued his own communique a short time later, as part of a co-ordinated campaign that also saw a joint statement from the leaders of Britain, France and Germany and another from the European Union's foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton.

article continues...

 

[Journeyman]

From CBC

UN votes to demand Syria end bloody crackdown

The United Nations' top human rights body voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to demand that Syria end its
bloody crackdown and co-operate with an international probe into possible crimes against humanity.

Well, since they voted overwhelmingly, I guess this crisis is pretty much wrapped up.  :nod:

 

[The Bread Guy]

From CBC
Well, since they voted overwhelmingly, I guess this crisis is pretty much wrapped up.  :nod:

"Harsh Letter to Bad Guy Team - UP!"

 

[Journeyman]

"Harsh Letter to Bad Guy Team - UP!"

Well, they didn't actually make any demands of Syria -- they just voted overwhelmingly that at some point they were going to. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Well, they didn't actually make any demands of Syria -- they just voted overwhelmingly that at some point they were going to. 

Ah, then more like, "Harsh Letter to Bad Guy Team - Prepare to move!"

 

[sean m]

Interesting video, the journalist is in Syria and gets the opinions of Syrian citizens. Who knows if this video is bias or not.  Seems odd, since I had thought, that the Assad regime did not let in foreign media. The reporters seems to be transported by the Syrian government, it is ironic that almost everyone he meets are pro Assad or more anti protesters. The video states that the protestors are mainly sunni.

http://www.youtube.com/user/journeymanpictures?blend=1&ob=4#p/c/3A4C018BB1B234EC/2/Zh7ksVJuseg

 

[PJGary]

Thoughts, Gentlemen? I find it interesting that there is even the slightest talk of military action.

from: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/11/16/pol-syria-mackay.html

Canada is watching violence in Syria but stepping in would require more thought and possibly a UN resolution, Defence Minister Peter MacKay says.

MacKay spoke about Syria hours before meeting with Israeli counterpart Ehud Barak to talk about regional security and a series of agreements on defence cooperation between Canada and Israel.

As France pulls its ambassador from Damascus, Syria's capital, and the country's suspension from the Arab League takes effect, MacKay says any possible military action needs "further contemplation" and possibly a UN Security Council resolution "to mirror the path that we followed with respect to Libya."

"There's a number of things that would have to happen. It is a much more complex situation in many ways, given the circumstances on the ground in Syria," MacKay said Wednesday morning.

"But I can assure you in our capital and in capitals around the world, NATO countries are discussing what is happening in Syria."

The mission in Libya was a UN-sanctioned NATO mission intended to protect civilians from attacks. That mission started in March and culminated with deposed leader Moammar Gadhafi being captured and killed in October. It has raised questions about why, with Syrian civilians facing similar danger, western countries haven't intervened.

In the House of Commons, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird said Canada has imposed sanctions on the regime's key players and called on President Bashar al-Assad to resign.

"The campaign of violence and terror against the Syrian people must end," he said.

"Canada stands with the Syrian people at their time of need."

Baird also repeated a recommendation that any Canadians still in Syria leave the country while there are still commercial flights.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Update:  DefMin quoted saying "ready if needed":

While any intervention in Syria would have to follow a series of United Nations sanctions, Canada's armed forces are ready to offer assistance if necessary, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Sunday.

In an appearance on CTV's Question Period, MacKay said there are a "cascading number of sanctions that would have to happen before there would be any type of intervention."

But, speaking from the Halifax International Security Forum, he added that "Canada has certainly a great deal of ability to lend support in a situation, as we saw in Libya."

MacKay said there is constant planning taking place at armed forces headquarters and, as a result, "certainly we've prepared for all inevitabilities."

The defence minister said he finds it encouraging that some of Syria's military have been defecting rather than follow orders to attack civilians. The UN estimates more than 3,500 people have been killed in the government crackdown on dissent.

"That is exactly what we wanted to prevent and did prevent in Libya," he said ....

CTV.ca, 20 Nov 11

 

[57Chevy]

                    From Haaretz and shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

I never doubted this maneuver from the Russian Federation.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/report-russia-warships-to-enter-syria-waters-in-bid-to-stem-foreign-intervention-1.396359

Russian warships are due to arrive at Syrian territorial waters, a Syrian news agency said on Thursday, indicating that the move represented a clear message to the West that Moscow would resist any foreign intervention in the country's civil unrest.
Article continues.....

 

[Edward Campbell]

A UNSC Resolution is needed, MND MacKay says, according to this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/un-must-okay-any-military-move-on-syria-mackay-says/article2242729/

UN must okay any military move on Syria, MacKay says

STEVEN CHASE, LES PERREAUX AND OLIVER MOORE
OTTAWA AND HALIFAX— Globe and Mail Update

Published Sunday, Nov. 20, 2011

Canada is ready to assist an international military intervention in Syria should sanctions and diplomacy fail, but the United Nations authorization that Ottawa says it would first require is neither imminent nor inevitable.

Still, the Harper government announced Sunday it was posting a warship to the Mediterranean until the end of 2012, a frigate that could be useful for evacuations or naval blockades if the violence in Syria descends into civil war.

Barely three weeks after the Harper government formally ended its role in the NATO bombing mission that helped oust Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi, Ottawa says it’s prepared to offer assistance if necessary in Syria, where Bashar al-Assad’s bloody campaign of oppression against his own people has killed about 3,500.

There is deep unease, however, among Canadian decision-makers and the international community about the prospect of sending armed force to Syria to protect civilians – a conflict that could easily ignite a regional war and transform into a quagmire.

Syria borders Israel and Turkey and has strong ties to Iran; and the Syrian air force is far bigger and more modern than Libya’s, with a daunting array of anti-aircraft missiles.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay, who spent the weekend with major international military and security players at a forum in Halifax, said nobody is eager to enter the fray.

“With all of the brainpower that we had in this building in the last 72 hours, I didn’t hear anybody say ‘Let’s charge into Syria,’ ” he told reporters.

“What I heard was ‘Let’s contemplate the next move very cautiously,’ knowing … if you break it you own it.”

Mr. MacKay said he hopes that China and Russia can be persuaded to agree to levy economic sanctions on Syria through the United Nations as a next step.

He told CTV’s Question Period that Canada’s armed forces are “prepared for all inevitabilities” but said in the case of Syria, there are a “cascading number of [international] sanctions that would have to happen before there would be any type of intervention.”

The Defence Minister said a UN Security Council resolution is a “necessity in this instance” before Canada would agree to join an international effort to intervene in Syria, where Mr. al-Assad is viciously cracking down on protestors.

“I think it’s fair to say that a lot of dictators are on notice, that this type of behaviour is not going to be tolerated,” Mr. MacKay said.

“Now how we go about it and what comes next, is done on a some would call it an escalating scale, before making any final decisions around intervention.”

The Conservative government said HMCS Vancouver, which helped patrol the waters off Libya, will remain in the Mediterranean as part of a NATO counterterrorism effort, Operation Endeavour, until relieved by HMCS Charlottetown in early 2012.

“There’s no question that [Syria is] weighing heavy on our mind,” Mr. MacKay said. “The primary purpose is to contribute to antiterrorist operations in the region. But there’s no question having a ship in the region, in the event that Canadians need direct assistance or evacuation … gives us that capability to respond, should certain things transpire.

Asked if he would take military intervention against Syria off the table, Canada’s defence minister told Global TV’s The West Block that he would not.

“We, again I would say to you, are very cautious when you get into the projecting of military intervention. But to answer your question, no, I don’t think we should suggest that it’s not an option. It’s not the preferred option, it never is.”

Mr. MacKay told the Halifax International Security Forum this past weekend that the NATO-led airstrikes that helped oust Mr. Gadhafi are not a template for actions elsewhere.

Iran is a nuclear threat, Egypt is again in turmoil and Yemen teeters on the brink of collapse, but it was Syria that caused the most squirming at a weekend gathering of top global security officials.

The generals and defence ministers who met at the Halifax forum shared many congratulatory slaps on the back for their role in ridding the world of Mr. Gadhafi.

But they worked at every turn to dampen expectations Western countries would take similar action to help oust Mr. al-Assad.

Lieutenant-General Charles Bouchard, the Royal Canadian Air Force general who led the NATO mission in Libya, cautioned against applying the Libyan model to Syria.

“Libya should not be a blueprint for the future. Libya is just one more campaign from which we should take lessons,” Lt.-Gen. Bouchard said.

“One is in the Middle East, the other is in North Africa. I don’t want to sound flippant, but the neighbours make a difference,” he added, pointing out the border Syria shares with Turkey is just one factor that seriously complicates matters compared to Libya.

James Appathurai, a top NATO political official, pointed out that just on process the groundwork is far from being laid. The NATO mission in Libya was backed by a UN Security Council mandate and had broad regional support.

The Syrian uprising causes discomfort among decision-makers for good reason, according to Radwan Ziadeh, co-founder of the Syrian Center for Political and Strategic studies. While Middle Eastern regimes like Iran must temper despotic impulses because of the need to sell oil, Syria is far less constrained by diplomatic considerations.

“For years now, Syrian foreign policy has hinged on making trouble with its neighbours,” said Mr. Ziadeh. “Syria depends on unrest among neighbours. If you want to bring stability to Iraq, to Lebanon, to Syria, to Iran, you have to change the Assad regime.”

But the way to do that is far from clear.

Mr. Ziadeh said the West could be honest about the limitations of its power and the double standard it applies in these cases. The West intervened in Libya because the mission was relatively easy. It won’t intervene in Syria because it would be bloody and expensive.

Senator John McCain said he favours recognizing Syria’s transitional council, a move also favoured by Mr. Ziadeh and a number of other experts.

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak suggested Mr. al-Assad’s downfall is well underway and may be complete without much Western help.

“I think that [al-Assad] went beyond the point of no return, there’s no way he will resume his authority or legitimacy over his people,” Mr. Barak said during an on-stage interview at the forum.

“It’s not a linear process, but now will go on an even steeper slope. People within his armed forces, civil service, start to see the end, how to hedge their personal bets.”

This, requiring a UN imprimatur for military actions, would be (broadly) consistent with 60+ years of Canadian policy under both Conservative and Liberal governments. (Yes, I am aware of the exceptions.)

 

[57Chevy]

                        From Prison Planet and  shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Russia Arms Syria With Missiles To Defend Against NATO Attack
Paul Joseph Watson, 24 Nov
http://www.prisonplanet.com/russia-arms-syria-with-missiles-to-defend-against-nato-attack.html

We now know what those six Russian warships that reportedly entered Syrian territorial waters last week were carrying. Aside from representing a show of strength to discourage NATO powers from launching a military attack, on board were Russian technical experts ready to help Damascus set up a sophisticated missile defense system sold to them by Moscow.

“Russian warships that have reached waters off Syria in recent days were carrying, among other things, Russian technical advisors who will help the Syrians set up an array of S-300 missiles Damascus has received in recent weeks, a report in the London-based Arabic language Al Quds-Al Arabi said Thursday. Citing sources in Syria and Russia, the paper said that Moscow sees a Western attack on Syria as a “red line” that it will not tolerate,” reports Arutz Sheva.

The S-300 missiles, which according to the report will be used to “deflect a possible attack by NATO or the U.S. and EU,” are long range surface-to-air missiles developed by Russia in 1979 for the purpose of protecting large industrial and military bases from enemy attack aircraft and cruise missiles.

The system is widely regarded as one of the most powerful anti-aircraft arrays in modern warfare, having the ability to track up to 100 targets and engage 12 at any one time. Russia recently tried to sell the same system to Iran but the transaction was halted after pressure from the U.S. and Israel.

article continues at link
                              ______________________________________________

Russian S-300 Surface to Air Missile System
http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/russian-s-300-surface-to-air-missile-system/

The S-300P surface-to-air missile system—currently manufactured, deployed, and exported by the Russians—is designed to detect, track, and destroy incoming ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, and low-flying aircraft. Also known by its NATO designation, SA-10 Grumble, the system has been modified several times since its inception: the most recent variants are the S-300PMU-1 (SA-10D) and the S-300PMU-2 (SA-10E Favorit).

more at link

 

[Retired AF Guy]

                        From Prison Planet and  shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Russia Arms Syria With Missiles To Defend Against NATO Attack
Paul Joseph Watson, 24 Nov
http://www.prisonplanet.com/russia-arms-syria-with-missiles-to-defend-against-nato-attack.html

We now know what those six Russian warships that reportedly entered Syrian territorial waters last week were carrying. Aside from representing a show of strength to discourage NATO powers from launching a military attack, on board were Russian technical experts ready to help Damascus set up a sophisticated missile defense system sold to them by Moscow.

“Russian warships that have reached waters off Syria in recent days were carrying, among other things, Russian technical advisors who will help the Syrians set up an array of S-300 missiles Damascus has received in recent weeks, a report in the London-based Arabic language Al Quds-Al Arabi said Thursday. Citing sources in Syria and Russia, the paper said that Moscow sees a Western attack on Syria as a “red line” that it will not tolerate,” reports Arutz Sheva.

...........................

i would take anything coming out of Alex Jones with a grain of salt. First, there have been no indications that the Syrians have recently received the S-300 missile system. Even if they did it would take time (months?) to make the systems operational. The other thing is that there are no indications that NATO or anyone else is planning on attacking/intervening in Syria. Finally, the biggest threat to Assad is not external, but internal.

 

[tomahawk6]

The Israelis defeated Russian air defenses when they took out the nuclear reactor that the North Koreans had given them.

The Free Syrian Army killed 10 regime air force personnel including 6 pilots.The Syrian Air Force is a bastion of the regime.Targeting the air force would be key in overthrowing the regime.

 

[57Chevy]

Tomahawk,
                  Agreed about the grain of salt. The Russians may be there more for intel reasons.
However Syria announced an intention to buy the S-300P in 1991 and now seems to possess the system according to Wikipedia.

From Debkafile and shared with provisions of The Copyright Act
US carrier strike force enters Syrian waters. Russian carrier en route
Special Report 26 Nov
http://www.debka.com/article/21521/
The Syrian crisis aassumed a big power dimension this week with the build-up of rival United States and Russia naval air carrier armadas in Syrian waters, debkafile's military sources report.

The USS George H.W. Bush arrived Wednesday, Nov. 23, in the wake of the three Russian warships anchored earlier opposite Tartus which established a command post in the Syrian port. They will be augmented by Russia's only air carrier the Admiral Kuznetsov, which is due in mid-week.

By deploying 70 ship-borne fighter-bombers plus three heavy guided missile cruisers and five guided missile destroyers opposite Syria, Washington has laid down military support for any intervention the Arab League in conjunction with Turkey may decide on.

Bashar Assad can see for himself that Washington has hoisted a nuclear aerial umbrella to protect its allies, Israel, Turkey, and Jordan, against the retaliation his armed forces high command pledged Friday for the deaths of six Syrian air force elite pilots in an ambush Thursday.

For some time, Ankara has been weighing the creation of a protected haven for rebels and refugees inside Syria. France has proposed slicing "humanitarian corridors" through Syria for them to flee safely from military tank and gunfire and secure supply of food, medicines and other essential supplies to the cities under army siege.

Both plans would depend on being safeguarded by substantial ground and air strength inside Syria which would certainly face fierce resistance from Assad's military.

The Arab League has scheduled weekend meetings to decide how to proceed after Damascus ignored its Friday deadline for accepting hundreds of monitors. Saturday, Nov. 26, AL finance ministers will discuss economic sanctions. In the past 48 hours, at least 70 people were reported killed as the Syrian army continued its crackdown in the face of spreading armed opposition.

The Russian Kuznetzov carrier and its accompanying strike vessels will join the three Russian warships parked opposite Tartus for more than a week. It will enter the same Syrian offshore waters as the USS Bush and the US Sixth Fleet, which is permanently posted in the Mediterranean.

The Syrian crisis is therefore building up to a superpower face-off unparalleled since the Cold War between America and the Soviet Union ended in the nineties, debkafile's military sources note.

While Washington clearly stands ready to back operations against the Assad regime, Moscow is drawing a red line around his presidential palace in Damascus. The Kremlin is warning the US, NATO and the Arab League that they will not be allowed to repeat their feat in Libya of overthrowing Muammar Qaddafi against Assad.

In the face of this escalating big power standoff and the high possibility of the Syrian ruler deciding to lash out against his country's neighbors, the Israeli, Jordanian and Turkey armies have declared a high state of war preparedness.
          _____________________________________________________________

France on the "humanitarian corridors" and also shared as above.

France seeking support for intervention in Syria
Dina Zayed and John Irish
Reuters 24 Nov
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/24/france-seeking-support-for-intervention-in-syria/

CAIRO/PARIS — France will seek Arab support on Thursday for a humanitarian corridor in Syria, the first time a major power has swung behind international intervention in the eight-month uprising against President Bashar al-Assad.

Foreign Minister Alain Juppe, who first floated the proposal for a humanitarian intervention on Wednesday, gave more details of the plan and said he would propose it to a meeting of Arab League foreign ministers gathering in Cairo to discuss Syria.

After months in which the international community has seemed determined to avoid any direct entanglement in one of the core countries of the Middle East, the diplomatic consensus seems to be changing.

The Arab League suspended Syria’s membership two weeks ago, accusing Assad of failing to fulfill a Nov. 2 pledge to halt the violence and withdraw troops from cities.

This week, the prime minister of regional heavyweight Turkey — a NATO member with the military wherewithal to mount a cross-border operation — compared Assad to Hitler, Mussolini and Gaddafi, and called on him to quit.

Juppe said international monitors should be sent to protect civilians, with or without Assad’s permission. He insisted the proposal fell short of a military intervention, but acknowledged that humanitarian convoys would need armed protection.

“There are two possible ways: That the international community, Arab League and the United Nations can get the regime to allow these humanitarian corridors,” he told French radio on Thursday. “But if that isn’t the case we’d have to look at other solutions … with international observers.”
                      ___________________________________________________

Map at link.

 

[The Bread Guy]

"Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird today issued the following statement:

“Canada welcomes the Arab League’s courageous decision to put sanctions on the Assad regime.

“This is another important signal from Syria’s neighbours that the egregious behaviour of the Assad regime will not be tolerated.

“We are encouraged to hear of the Arab League’s plans to engage with the United Nations. The senseless violence occurring in Syria can no longer be ignored by the United Nations. We call on the UN to follow the Arab League’s decision and further isolate this reckless and illegitimate regime.

“We stand with the Syrian people, who seek to realize a brighter future for themselves—one that respects freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law.

“Canadians in Syria should leave now by commercial means while these are still available.”

 

[57Chevy]

Americans have been asked to leave immediately (Nov 23)
Breaking: Americans urged to leave Syria “immediately”
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/10940707-breaking-americans-urged-to-leave-syria-immediately
                                _____________________________________-

In case someone wants to know

Canadian Embassy in Syria

Contact Information for the Canadian Embassy in Syria

Canadian Embassy - Damascus, Syria
Lot 12, Autostrade Mezzeh
PO Box 3394
Damascus, Syria
Tel: 963 (11) 611-6692
Fax: 963 (11) 611-4000

 

[57Chevy]

                              Shared with provisions of The Copyright Act


UN says 'crimes against humanity' committed in Syria
You Tube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4uccjTC0cg

 

[Jarnhamar]

Nice place



http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/11/28/syria-sanctions-reaction.html?cmp=rss

A United Nations probe has found that Syrian troops killed hundreds of children and committed other "crimes against humanity" since the government crackdown began in March.

A panel of independent experts says at least 256 children were killed by government forces as of early November, with some boys sexually tortured and a two-year-old girl shot to death just to prevent her from growing up to be a demonstrator.

 

[The Bread Guy]

If Jack Granatstein's assessment of this Debka web site info ("usually reliable") is correct, Canadians may be part of a team looking at "humanitarian corridors" in Syria:

.... Monday, Nov. 28, debkafile reported a group of military officers from NATO and Persian Gulf nations had quietly established a mixed operational command at Iskenderun in the Turkish Hatay province on the border of North Syria:

Hailing from the United States, France, Canada, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, with Turkish officers providing liaison, they do not represent NATO but are self-designated "monitors." Their mission is to set up "humanitarian corridors" inside Syria to serve the victims of Bashar Assad's crackdown. Commanded by ground, naval, air force and engineering officers, the task force aims to move into most of northern Syria.

Laying the groundwork for the legitimacy of the combined NATO-Arab intervention in Syria, the UN Independent International Commission set up to assess the situation in Syria published a horrendous report Monday, Nov. 28 on the Assad regime's brutalities. It documented "gross violations of human rights" and "patterns of summary execution, arbitrary arrest, enforced disappearance, torture including sexual violence, as well as violations of children's rights." ....

Full Debka report attached for a touch more context.

 

[Kirkhill]

Strangely enough the dominant ethnicity in N. Syria is (IIRC) Kurd.  The same people that the Turks have trouble with.  The same people the Iraqis have trouble with.  The same people that were protected under a No Fly Zone in Iraq after Gulf War I.

Will the new Turkish government support a Kurdish State based on Aleppo-Latakia - A "friendly" muslim buffer between the Turks and the Arabs (and the Persians)?