Surprise! Another example of pay being mis-handled.

[Pusser]

Reg Force story:

The first summer I went away for BMOQ, I was on TD and received incidentals, filed my claiim, and St. Jean sent the CLDA stuff a few months later. I was then told I would not be receiving the CLDA because I had already been paid incidentals for those days. I emailed back and asked why couldn't the incidentals be taken back and the CLDA paid to me, so that I would end up with the difference (the CLDA for 10 days in the field being much more than 10 days of 13 dollar incidentals). Of course, no reply, and I didn't get paid the CLDA. A difference of up to 200 dollars if IIRC. Being new and not wanting to cause a fuss at the OR or make a name for myself, I took a mental note to ensure it did not happen again. I would be fine without the 200 dollars.

This past summer, they put a sticker on the front page of my claim saying what days I was getting CLDA and for how much, and that it would be on it's way in the mail shortly. I pointed this out to the clerk when I handed it to him, as I did not want the stupid crap from last year happening again. So my TD claim goes through, I receive the money in the bank. The CLDA goes through, I receive the money in the bank. A few weeks ago, I get a call from the clerk, saying the 12 days I received CLDA for I was also paid incidentals for, and so now I owe 12 x $13 = $156 back.

Two things crossed my mind. 1. When I was owed money, nobody gave a crap. They took the easy route instead of doing their job and correcting the mistake, but when I owed money, they did their job because somebody from higher up told them I owed money.

and 2. I just can't win.

The question here is whether you should paid CLDA or TD.  You received both and have to pay one of them back.  The "system" is not allowed to choose the cheapest option, but nor is it allowed to let you keep both.  You should be paid the same as everybody else on course was receiving.  As long as that's the case, you have no cause for complaint.  Due to an administrative error you've been overpaid, which is much better than being underpaid.  Since you seem to know that you were overpaid and could see it coming, you should have prepared for it and put the money aside.  Look at it as an optimist and consider the overpayment as an interest-free loan.

 

[ballz]

I don't know how CLDA works, haven't been paid enough of it since it came up to really care to look into it, maybe somthing has changed, but i can't imagine it's any different then FOA, any time I've been on TD, and went into the field, I received FOA for those days, not TD....

Yes, I know that, and yes, you can't get paid both, it's one or the other.

What I am saying is, I got paid incidentals instead of CLDA (maybe it was called FOA when I did BMOQ in the summer of 09, I can't remember now.), and they wouldn't fix it for me (CLDA or FOA, was much more than the $13/day incidentals, so I was owed more money). I was suppose to receive CLDA, they had already paid me incidentals, but rather than do their job and fix the error, I just got ignored.

But when it was the other way around...

 

[ballz]

The question here is whether you should paid CLDA or TD.  You received both and have to pay one of them back.  The "system" is not allowed to choose the cheapest option, but nor is it allowed to let you keep both.  You should be paid the same as everybody else on course was receiving.  As long as that's the case, you have no cause for complaint.  Due to an administrative error you've been overpaid, which is much better than being underpaid.  Since you seem to know that you were overpaid and could see it coming, you should have prepared for it and put the money aside.  Look at it as an optimist and consider the overpayment as an interest-free loan.

My complaint isn't with paying it back when I was overpaid. It's the clerk not fixing the mistake when I was underpaid.

My cause of complaint is in the first example, when I was basically being told to get f**ked when I was paid the wrong one (the right one would have resulted in more money in my pocket). Rather than fix it, I got an email saying "we're not going to pay it to you" and when I replied back saying "please pay me the correct one" they ignored me.


EDIT: Btw, I did not know I was overpaid. I told the clerk when I handed him my TD claim "I am receiving CLDA for these days (right here, on this sticker on the front page!). Do not pay  me incidentals for these days." I took for granted that he had listened when I received the TD claim in my bank account, and that the incidentals for those days were deducted. They were not. And that is why I ended up being overpaid. Not an administrative error, that's a human error.

 

[chrisf]

Yes, I know that, and yes, you can't get paid both, it's one or the other.

What I am saying is, I got paid incidentals instead of CLDA (maybe it was called FOA when I did BMOQ in the summer of 09, I can't remember now.), and they wouldn't fix it for me (CLDA or FOA, was much more than the $13/day incidentals, so I was owed more money). I was suppose to receive CLDA, they had already paid me incidentals, but rather than do their job and fix the error, I just got ignored.

But when it was the other way around...

Maybe I misunderstood, but the way I read it you received TD instead of CLDA?

 

[dogger1936]

It's not the clerk's problem either.  Our pay system is automated, which means the computer does the calculations and spits out the numbers.  It does this based on the inputs, which can come from many sources at any time without one clerk knowing what another clerk is doing, particularly when these clerks may be in entirely different parts of the country.  However, at the end of the day, when the numbers come up, the poor clerk has to deal with the disgruntled non-payee at the counter. 

Well why have the clerks not addressed this computer system failure? This isnt a new thing...it been happening for years. It shouldnt be an error of over 30% should it? They gave me 80% as per and I have to pay back over 300. If I had a 30% failure rate in my job I would be replaced.

 

[ballz]

Maybe I misunderstood, but the way I read it you received TD instead of CLDA?

Yes. The end result is, I received TD ($13/day) instead of CLDA ( $(13 + X)/day) on days that I was in the field and should have been receiving CLDA instead of TD.

Instead of correcting it, they just said "you will not be receiving CLDA for such and such days."

 

[aesop081]

CLDA ( $(13 + X)/day)

CLDA : 

$24.71 for each complete 24-hour period of that duty

 

[dapaterson]

Tangent:

CLDA is $24.71/day; incidentals are $17.30 per day.  However, as an allowance, CLDA is taxed in your hands; incidentals are not.  So, if your tax rate is greater than $7.41/24.71 = 30%, you're ahead financially to get incidentals instead of TD.


Of course, if you're gathering a lot of CLDA and then posted to an LDA unit, those additional days may get you to higher LDA levels sooner, so your situation may be different.


On topic:

I find it odd that clerks never face charges for negligent performance of duties when they screw things up like this.  There seems to be a real reluctance to hold clerks accountable for their actions/inactions - "Oops, I forgot, sorry everyone is screwed." needs corrective action, not a right justified PER.

 

[Dissident]

It is a sad state of affairs when my wife is ecstatic about getting her pay sorted in a month after she joined TF. As we waited 4-5 months (I was actually on the ground in KAF) to get my pay sorted when I went.

 

[ballz]

incidentals are $17.30 per day

Only for the first so many days of a TD posting... after that it's $13 (and maybe some change).

 

[garb811]

Several years ago, when my pay was being pooched big time due to someone removing the pay note stating my account was allowed to run in the red pending the resolution of a complicated set of circumstances, three months in a row someone went in and removed the pay note, causing my pay not to be depositied.  On the third occassion, I demanded that administrative and/or disciplinary action be taken against the person(s) responsible and I was told there was no way for them to tell who had done it as the transactions were not logged.  I have not confirmed this, but it would certainly explain some of the lackadaisical attitudes a very few RMS Clerks display towards making mistake WRT pay.

One other issue people face, and I have seen it quite frequently with my pers when their spec pay kicks in, is if the person making the initial input makes a mistake, they are unable to fix it and they must contact someone in Ottawa to get it corrected and the normal wait time I've seen is in the vicinity of 2-3 months.

As with others, I don't understand how the pay system fails so often for so many.  Our system is not that complicated in comparison to what civilian companies, or even the Public Service, faces, yet somehow they seem to get it right the vast majority of the time...probably because unlike us, they have dedicated payroll personnel.  Bring back the Finance Branch!

 

[dogger1936]

As with others, I don't understand how the pay system fails so often for so many.  Our system is not that complicated in comparison to what civilian companies, or even the Public Service, faces, yet somehow they seem to get it right the vast majority of the time...probably because unlike us, they have dedicated payroll personnel.  Bring back the Finance Branch!

Good thoght. I agree any company I worked for my pay was never messed up. I also had very similar benifits IRT travel expenses etc. I also concur with the Pay clerk days...RMS clerk was when all the trouble started happening.

Keep in mind those payroll clerks in civilian companies also get FIRED if they mess up enough...ours just get shuffled around unit to unit. Our SSM fired one from our Sqn as a Cpl 4 years ago for messing peoples claims up so much...she is currently a sgt baseside.

 

[dapaterson]

As soemone who's enjoyed being paid by RDS, RPSR, CCPS and now the Public Service, I'll say that the Res Pay system is better than before, but as currently constituted the system lacks adequate audit trails.  I'll also say that, bad as they are, the military pay systems (CCPS and RPSR) seem better than the public service system - the PS system isn't designed to handle exceptions, is manpower intensive, and generally trails events by weeks or months.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

seem better than the public service system - the PS system isn't designed to handle exceptions, is manpower intensive, and generally trails events by weeks or months

Just a note.[and off topic, sorry]
The Ontario PS system is definitively not included in the above statement. In 22 years my pay has hardly ever been screwed up and, when it has, is usually fixed in a few minutes.

..and as far as exemptions go when I work my 12 hour night shift on a weekend there are 3 different premiums that kick in for ONE shift.  19-24/ 24-07/ plus weekend premium and very seldom a problem, maybe the military needs some training from our folks.

 

[MPwannabe]

All of these examples has gotten me kind of worried about starting my post in Borden. I pay rent at home for the Fiance, and having my pay get held back would be pretty destructive.

 

[aesop081]

All of these examples has gotten me kind of worried about starting my post in Borden. I pay rent at home for the Fiance, and having my pay get held back would be pretty destructive.

In 18 years of service, i have had zero problems with my pay.

 

[blacktriangle]

In 18 years of service, i have had zero problems with my pay.

And in a quarter of that time, I have had several serious pay issues. It all depends on circumstances and to some extent, luck.

If you are joining the RegF straight off the bat MPwannabe (as your post implies) I wouldn't worry too much about getting paid correctly. You should be fine. If not, that's what your clerks are there for.

 

[aesop081]

And in a quarter of that time, I have had several serious pay issues.

I'm aware there are issues. I have worked to sort out several over the years for my troops. My point is that, although there are issues, they are not the norm (not in the regF anyways as i have very little familiarity with the Res system) and new members shouldnt start to worry before they have to worry, simply based on things they hear or read on here.

 

[4Feathers]

In 18 years of service, i have had zero problems with my pay.

Bazinga my friend, 24 years of service and only minor problems that occured when deployed for me. This thread seems like an anti RMS Clerk vent/rant, when in fact, the large majority of them are working understaffed in jobs they are likely improperly trained for, while getting no love from many iRate clients. I have no time for clerks who are nothing less than professional with clients, but even less time for clients who feel they can treat the RMS staff with anything less than professionalism. An wise Chief Clerk told me once that his staff could do 1000 things right and never get noticed, but make one mistake and the whole organization is judged accordingly.

 

[PuckChaser]

That story works for every trade. No one knows who makes the comms work, but when they aren't up someone knows who to yell at to fix it....