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Staff Cadets geting their 404's

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Personally I think having cadets with 404's is a scary thought... I can see too many of them getting too wraped up in how cool it is to drive army cars and letting their minds wander when they should be focusing on driving...

the better question would be, would the 404's be restricted to DND Property or would they be allowed to operate MSE off base?

personally i just think its not a good idea. especially since at the end of the the day Cadets (staff or otherwise) are still not held to the same level of accountability as Military personal (Reg or PRes)

but thats just my .02  :salute:

regards
  Josh
 
ouyin2000 said:
as far as i know, you have to be 19 to get your DND 404, but i might be mistaken on that one

as for which positions may drive, at HMCS Quadra, they have an actual Staff Cadet Driver position, the requirements (i believe) are Full provincial drivers liscence with no suspensions, penalties, tickets, or anything on it

so i doubt youll be able to qualify for it in your first year at summer camp (especially the way the BC Graduated Drivers program is going now)

That 19 yrs old for 404s is an urban myth.

I was 17 when I got mine, as although I have been out of the CF loop for over 10 yrs now, as long as the appropiate written CF tests are passed, along with the provincial, and a DDC, plus a road test (or maybe a Drivers Course too), I find nothing wrong with temp 404s issued to Cadets who are authorised, but I do believe a standard Operators licence from the home province may be required to go along with this. Can any Safety Sups add to this? I did the course (MSE Safety Coord) at CFSAL in Bordon in 94, but again things may have changed.

Cheers,

Wes
 
I'm quite confused on what need there is for a cadet to have their 404.  ???
 
WO Saorse said:
I'm quite confused on what need there is for a cadet to have their 404.   ???

... and a WO can't come to any logic on why?

A little bit of commonsense can come up with many reasons, most borne out of simple logistics. How is a, say a busy summer camp to cope with a lack of PRes or Regulars to augment driver taskings as such.

I am sure there is bonafide reasons to give designated Cadets manning certain staff positions their temp 404s for summer camps, and about your question, why not? Who are you going to get to fill a driver tasking if so required.

Think about it.
 
Cpl Thompson said:
Personally I think having cadets with 404's is a scary thought... I can see too many of them getting too wraped up in how cool it is to drive army cars and letting their minds wander when they should be focusing on driving...

the better question would be, would the 404's be restricted to DND Property or would they be allowed to operate MSE off base?

personally i just think its not a good idea. especially since at the end of the the day Cadets (staff or otherwise) are still not held to the same level of accountability as Military personal (Reg or PRes)

but thats just my .02   :salute:

regards
   Josh
according to the CATO regarding this, the vehicle would be limited to DND property, and in certain circumstances they would be allowed to leave. For example, if they were required to pick up arriving cadets from the bus depot or airport.
 
And probably to prevent them from running over Buicks. From my limited expeirence, the 404's are restricted heavily due to past indiscretions.  The aforementioned was Res pers in Rivers (very dated) involving a 50 Ptn 2 1/2T & Buick less than 3 blocks out of dealer.  Cadets in Vernon were usually restricted to DND property.

Cheers
 
Vernon Army CSTC no longer issues staff cadets with their 404s. The only camp in Pac Reg that I know of for sure, is HMCS Quadra.
 
ouyin2000 said:
according to the CATO regarding this, the vehicle would be limited to DND property, and in certain circumstances they would be allowed to leave. For example, if they were required to pick up arriving cadets from the bus depot or airport.

i didn't think cadets were allowed to drive other cadets anywere at all. just like teachers cant drive students.
 
-Hutch- said:
i didn't think cadets were allowed to drive other cadets anywere at all. just like teachers cant drive students.

Teachers can drive students. At least, in my board they can for school purposes.
 
I thank everyone for automatically assuming I am immature and naive and have no idea what happens at a cadet training center. if you wish to apologise please feel free. I was excited just because it would be something most people wont ever have and something I can say I had, because you don't get much else as far as qualifications go as staff.
Regards,
 
WO. McWatt said:
I thank everyone for automatically assuming I am immature and naive and have no idea what happens at a cadet training center. if you wish to apologise please feel free. I was excited just because it would be something most people wont ever have and something I can say I had, because you don't get much else as far as qualifications go as staff.
Regards,

I certaily don't need to apologise.   I was simply curious as to why you were getting excited.   I certainly did not need   BS attitude from you.   If you realy want 404s that bad....heck i can give you mine !   As far as most people not having 404s......i hate to burst your bubble but they are quite common.   Come to think of it, your reaction simply proves that you simply want them for "cool factor" and not a valid requirement........now thats immature.

At any rate, i was just currious but if you want a flame war kid....i have time
 
actully I on the other hand I dont have time to have a "flame war" and my comment was more directed to piper when he was goking aoubt how I wouldent drive a tank etc... However yes I do want it for the cool factor, and if that is immature so be it. I am miture enough to admit that I really do want it for that.

Regards,
 
Well, do dispel the cool factor..............
The Summer in Blackdown I worked as the Photographer (crappy job it it got me into the semi-pro work I do now), the main vehicle I got to drive was an ancient, run-down staff car, a Dodge Shadow, grey, with the CF logo on the doors. Not a cool ride by any stretch. As for driving cadets around, I was on occasion accompanied by the Cadet RSM as we went to see the cadets swimming off obase at the conservation area.
The ony better thing I drove was that I got a full-size pick-up (green) for a weekend (transport section was closed by the time I was done with it, so I had it all weekend) to deliver stuff.
Not cool by any stretch, just practical to do my job.
 
Uuuuhhhh, pardon me but do you not need a valid work ticket for auth use of DND veh?  Don't know if it is still called work ticket, so please enlighten me.  But the work ticket detailed the duty, pol, miles (km), time, duty dates, auth signature, & other little thing.

Cheers
 
Okay, Need to Clarify a couple of things here..

Firstly if a cadet were issued 404's they would probabbly not be given anything big or expensive... meaning odds are you wouldnt be driving rentals, since the companies freak out over young people driving them... even though when dnd leases or rents it becomes the property of dnd for that period, and if there are damages, dnd absorbs the cost completly...

odd are as a cadet you would be driving what medic65726 had. some sort of staff car or dnd owned (read: it will have a CFR) veh... IT WILL NOT BE A CUBE VAN cube van is rated as a 2 ton truck and as such is in a higher catagory then basic commercial Cargo..

the cadet would have either basic passenger up to 8pax van, or basic cargo, up to full size pickup truck, or both. nothing higher then that, as any vehicle larger then that requires advanced training. and as such proof of a provncial license would not be enough.  even still, I cant see the CF wanting to give even an 18yr old staff cadet a $60,000 chevy silverado or a $50,000 ford ecconoline van.. keep in mind that the army tends to have a failry new commercial fleet.. not too many old beat up cars. there are a few, but not alot that ive seen. and in the cadet world or at least at Connaught, all the vehicles I used, and saw in use by the Cadet Camp were rentals. I cant see the camp Tn O or the local MSE Safety guys being cool with letting cadets drive those vehicles... theyre just too expensive to risk it.

CH1: (TO MY KNOWLEGE) Yes, all MSE (Owned, Rented or Leased) requires a valid work ticket or Trip Ticket. now that we've switched to FMS (Fleet Management System) its all kept on computer. keep in mind that there is more then one type of ticket however.
Casual: used for a short term trip or when a standing work ticket does not apply. ie: we have a standing ticket on our 8pax van to be filled out monthly, and is valid for use in The 31 CBG Area. if we need to take the veh outside 31 Brigade we need to get a MSE Trip Ticket authorized. which I had to do just recently when I took the Van to CFB Pettawawa to transport Troops to their Course.

so basically if you have a monthly ticket you dont need to record every trip that the veh takes if the trip falls within the mandate of the ticket. ie: taking the van from CFRB Hamilton to John Foote Armouries (just up the road) to pick up stores, or as a duty driver for a training night. so in alot of cases with the rental vehs they also had monthly tickets, and we would use a log sheet on a daily basis to record who was driving and the km, time in and out.

that all applies to the Comercial pattern fleet. The SMP or Green Fleet will usually only have casual work or trip tickets. so for the duration of an exercise or something like that.

however, this is not the word of god here, keep in mind that I am a Reservist Corporal who has not taken his QL5, PLQ, 6A's SLC or any of the courses required to be a qualified Dispatcher,  I have spent a very limited amount of time on FMS. so like i said, this is basically what I have observed and been told. im sure I have missed points and that there is imformation which may not be 100% correct.  what I have said is to the best of my knowege correct. however Im sure there are a few more 935's on here who could correct any misimformation i may have accidentaly put here.

Cheers
- Josh
 
Simple fact is that this whole thing boiled down to good old "LCF" and nothing more.
 
And with that, we shall stand down.
 
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