Staff Cadets geting their 404's

[q_1966]

http://www.regions.cadets.forces.gc.ca/pac/support/admin/prci/450.pdf

Just read how Staff Cadets can get their 404's (Military Drivers License Permit)
but what position as Staff would qualify you for that, Im thinking Storesman, but ive havent seen anything like this happen, New Trend?...Hopefully for the better.

 

[ouyin2000]

as far as i know, you have to be 19 to get your DND 404, but i might be mistaken on that one

as for which positions may drive, at HMCS Quadra, they have an actual Staff Cadet Driver position, the requirements (i believe) are Full provincial drivers liscence with no suspensions, penalties, tickets, or anything on it

so i doubt youll be able to qualify for it in your first year at summer camp (especially the way the BC Graduated Drivers program is going now)

 

[Inch]

as far as i know, you have to be 19 to get your DND 404, but i might be mistaken on that one

Not true, I had mine @ 18 when I was in the militia. You don't even need a provincial driver's licence, I knew a guy that could drive Cougars and Bisons but not a car on civvie street.

 

[ouyin2000]

ok well according to the Pac Region regulations, you hafta have your full provincial drivers liscence before even applying

and yes i know that you dont need a provincial liscence to be able to drive a tank or AFV....i got lots of info from the recruiting center

 

[aesop081]

ok well according to the Pac Region regulations, you hafta have your full provincial drivers liscence before even applying

and yes i know that you dont need a provincial liscence to be able to drive a tank or AFV....i got lots of info from the recruiting center

I think that there is somethng about DND 404s that you don't understand.  You do not "apply" for them, you get them issued when you have qualified on military veh and completing a road test on that vehicle ( like geting your driver wheeled course or track course......etc....).  You don't need a provoncial driver's ;iscence to drive a tank and you don't need one to drive an MLVW, LSVW, iltis or even MILCOTS........you can drive a staff car without a provincial if you have been qualified by a military driver-examiner.

Even if cadets are allowed to hold DND 404s, i'm sure that it does not absolve you of the requirement to pass a road test on tha vehicle you are expected to drive.  Only exception may be staff car and small passenger vans.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

To drive any SMP vehicle, you have to do the driver course for that vehicle, which will normally include the road test. For your 404's you also require the DIT, Defensive Driving course and in most cases Safe Backing. Some Commands may make it a prerequisite for Cadets to have their civvie licence, but it is normally not required for your 404's, in the Res or Regs.

 

[ouyin2000]

ok guys, actually read the link that was posted in the first post...it explains the requirements for a staff cadet to hold their DND 404

 

[WO2 Gubbels]

  I was wondering about the 404 as well.  I read over the link, fairly straight forward.  Just wanted to know, what counts as a devensive driving course??? is this a civvie course like drivers education, or is it military based?

 

[The_Falcon]

  I was wondering about the 404 as well.   I read over the link, fairly straight forward.   Just wanted to know, what counts as a devensive driving course??? is this a civvie course like drivers education, or is it military based?

The Defensive Driving Course or DDC is a program from the Canada Safety Counsel (A Civillian agency).  Whether your intstuctor is civ or military they must be certified by the CSC.

 

[Strike]

Even though the pub is for the Pac region, unless it states (in definition or throughout the pub) BC provincial driver's licence, you could probably get away with a licence from any other province, provided it is valid.

 

[Dane]

This is VERY new (Feb) and actually, I assume, supercedes a policy released 2-3 years ago barring any driving by any staff cadet at any time (whether personal vehicle, or DND)

 

[Jonny Boy]

that would be so cool for cadets to get there military lisence. right now i think it is a priority that i get my G1 seeing i dont have it.

 

[Zedic_1913]

This would make the cadet a valuable asset to their LHQ training exercises ..... that is, if the 404 wasn't required to be turned in at the end of the summer employment session.

 

[q_1966]

my question is, does it have to be a full license (Class 5) or would your L / N  Count?

 

[ouyin2000]

i believe if would mean your full provincial liscence

besides, the only camp in Pac Reg that has a Staff Cadet Driver position, is HMCS Quadra...so don't bother asking around at Vernon, because it wont happen

 

[old medic]

Cadets must have a full provincial drivers license. they would fall under the Category 1 404

Cadets would not have a driver wheel course qualification or training on military
pattern vehicles, and would not qualify for Category 2.

Note - 404's are a local issue by authority of the base or unit transportation officer.
They would stop being valid the day you left camp. 

Here are the rules for Reg and Res Force:

7500-1 (DLBM/TM)
May 2000

Distribution List

THE NEW LICENSING STANDARD (DND 404 POLICY CHANGE)

References: A. 7500-1 (DGT) 29 June 1994 - CF MSE Safety Program and DND Licensing System

B. 7500-1 (DGT) 29 Oct. 1993 - Policy Change - DND 404 Requirements for User Drivers

C. 1456-15 (D Law/A2) 19 July 1988 - Status of DND 404

D. A-LM-158-005/AG-001 - Transportation Manual - General

E. Treasury Board Secretariat Motor Vehicle Policy (TBSMVP)

<snip>

DND 404

5. Precise regulations for the issuance of DND 404s will be published in an updated version of Reference B shortly. The major policy change is the creation of three types of DND 404s as follows:

  1. Type I. This is intended for the occasional driver who is authorized to drive all Standard Commercial MSE up to and including nine passenger vans. A type I license is issued based on the possession of a valid PDL and consists simply of registering the driver in the FMS. The local transportation authority may oblige type I license holders to complete a local information guide/test or briefing. DDC is mandatory by 1 Dec 2001 or the type I license is revoked until DDC is completed. As FMS is not yet connected through a national database, personnel wishing to obtain MSE away from their home unit should have a print out of their FMS registration in their possession. Otherwise, physical possession of a paper DND 404 is not essential; registration in FMS may be sufficient as determined by local policy.

  2. Type II. This is for military and civilian professional and user drivers who are required to drive MSE, Standard Military Pattern (SMP) vehicles or Armoured Fighting Vehicles (AFV) as part of their routine duties. It is issued to personnel who require certification on vehicles outside of Type I levels. The carrying of Type II permit is mandatory.

  3. Type III. This is for the military or civilian personnel who do not have a PDL or formal driver training (so can not be categorized as casual, user or professional drivers) but who are required to operate MSE in order to perform a specific function limited to DND property (i.e., forklift operation in a Depot). The carrying of a Type III DND 404 is mandatory.

CONCLUSION

5. This policy will be included in DAOD 3020-2. It is important to remember that the proper licensing of qualified drivers is a safety issue. As such, it is the responsibility of leaders at all levels, not solely

Directeur - Gestion des activites (Logistiques)
Gestion des Transports

Lieutenant-Colonel

K.S. Harrison
Lieutenant-Colonel
Director Logistics Business Management -
Transportation Management

 

[medic65726]

I got a 404 as an 18 year old staff cadet at Blackdown/Borden.
I had a full provincial liscence, had proof of taking a defensice driving course (Young Drivers) and had to pass a written test.
There was no road test portion, or safe backing for that matter.
I was issued a 404 valid for Civvie pattern vehicles comporable to what I could drive with my Ontario G class.
It had all the classes and restrictions listed on it. IIRC:
Passenger vehicles up to 8 passengers
Cargo up to one ton
as well as the green painted Civvie pattern Jeeps they had recently bought.
It was issued by the base transportation section and was valid only for the summer.

 

[primer]

Yes I do remember that Staff cadets that were Driver storeman at Blackdown had there 404s. 1995 was the only year that Staff cadets had 404s at the Camp.

 

[3rcr_duhamel]

now, in order to get your 404, you do have to have your G2, minimum.  Though that could just be rumor, many of my family in the military have said that.  It may not be in place yet.

Fallschirmjäger 

 

[Jonny Boy]

now, in order to get your 404, you do have to have your G2, minimum.  Though that could just be rumor, many of my family in the military have said that.  It may not be in place yet.

Fallschirmjäger 

no it is not a rumor. it is very much true. i went in yesterday to apply to be a VE-TECH and they told me i could not until i had my G-2. they used to do a course were you joined did your g-2 course than your 404. but because of cut backs you are required to have your G-2 before.