Replacing the Subs

[lenaitch]

makes you wonder, it is well known that Russia liked to practice breaking through through the ice to launch missiles.

Maps suggest Soviet subs cruised Canadian Arctic

<p>The old Soviet Union may have been just as familiar with Canada's Arctic waters as Canadians.</p>

www.thespec.com

This revelation doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm actually a little surprised that those quoted and who are closer to the issue are surprised.

I like the Byers quote:
"At the current rate of charting, it will take 300 years for the Canadian Hydrographic Service to bring all our charts for the Canadian archipelago to world standards," Byers said.

 

[GR66]

This revelation doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm actually a little surprised that those quoted and who are closer to the issue a surprised.

I like the Byers quote:
"At the current rate of charting, it will take 300 years for the Canadian Hydrographic Service to bring all our charts for the Canadian archipelago to world standards," Byers said.

Not that it changes the content of the article in any meaningful way but just to note it was written in 2011.

 

[dapaterson]

Not that it changes the content of the article in any meaningful way but just to note it was written in 2011.

So 288 years, then.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So 288 years, then.

No- probably still 300 years…

 

[MilEME09]

Anyone up for some light reading? CDA institute just dropped their own report on Canada's sub fleet

Canada's Future Submarine Capability | CDA Institute

This report provides a detailed analysis of the critical role of submarines within the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and their importance in the shifting international security landscape. Canada's unique geopolitical positioning, surrounded by three oceans underlines the strategic value of...

cdainstitute.ca

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Anyone up for some light reading? CDA institute just dropped their own report on Canada's sub fleet

Canada's Future Submarine Capability | CDA Institute

This report provides a detailed analysis of the critical role of submarines within the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and their importance in the shifting international security landscape. Canada's unique geopolitical positioning, surrounded by three oceans underlines the strategic value of...

cdainstitute.ca

But just a couple of years ago, the current CRCN, infront of a large majority of Naval Officers, questioned why we even have submarines

 

[rmc_wannabe]

But just a couple of years ago, the current CRCN, infront of a large majority of Naval Officers, questioned why we even have submarines

You could fill a warehouse with things the current CRCN doesn't know, like why his sailors are leaving in droves and instead puts staff work hours to ridfing the Navy of that pesky "Heart or Oak" thing...

Might be the increased Op Tempo, jetty jumping, and 40 year old fleet that makes people want to leave and others to stay the hell away.

 

[KevinB]

Anyone up for some light reading? CDA institute just dropped their own report on Canada's sub fleet

Canada's Future Submarine Capability | CDA Institute

This report provides a detailed analysis of the critical role of submarines within the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and their importance in the shifting international security landscape. Canada's unique geopolitical positioning, surrounded by three oceans underlines the strategic value of...

cdainstitute.ca

TBH reading that sounds like the perfect option is the future AUKUS SSN for Australia. With a brief stop over in a loaner LA or Virginia class boat.
The article seem to point that realistically only a SSN will give the range, speed and under ice capabilities needed by the RCN.

 

[MilEME09]

You could fill a warehouse with things the current CRCN doesn't know, like why his sailors are leaving in droves and instead puts staff work hours to ridfing the Navy of that pesky "Heart or Oak" thing...

Might be the increased Op Tempo, jetty jumping, and 40 year old fleet that makes people want to leave and others to stay the hell away.

"No No it's the sailors who are wrong!"

 

[Kirkhill]

TBH reading that sounds like the perfect option is the future AUKUS SSN for Australia. With a brief stop over in a loaner LA or Virginia class boat.
The article seem to point that realistically only a SSN will give the range, speed and under ice capabilities needed by the RCN.

TBH reading that doesn't make much of a case of submarines.
The case as wrote is everybody else has got them and as good allies we should have them too.
That is a crap sales pitch.

How does buying 12 submarines contribute directly and materially to securing Canada and keeping Canadians safe? If that question can't be answered directly then we don't need 'em.

Do I think subs would be good? Yeh. But they're the experts.

 

[JMCanada]

Might the USN be also targeting buying foreign (Japanese) boats?
Should the RCN buy 12 of them, would earn lots of "bonus points" as a credible, reliable ally.

The U.S. Navy Needs Diesel-Electric Submarines Now

SSK submarine acquisitions would promise not just capable and affordable platforms but a diplomatic boon. Indivisible alliances stand the best chance of weathering peacetime strategic competition as well as hot war.

www.19fortyfive.com

 

[Rifleman62]

Trudeau couldn't care less about being a credible, reliable ally. As long as he has some adoring "crowds" and can bamboozle people to vote for him, get selfies, he gives the finger.

 

[dimsum]

Might the USN be also targeting buying foreign (Japanese) boats?

There is no way that the US would outsource that to another nation.

Maybe a Japanese design (and that's a stretch), but most definitely built, etc in the US.

 

[Good2Golf]

There is no way that the US would outsource that to another nation.

Maybe a Japanese design (and that's a stretch), but most definitely built, etc in the US.

I don’t know. If they thought there was a place for SSKs and they have no indigenous production capability. It would be far easier just to expend some cash to build some to spec then distract their SSBN/SSN/SSGN focus…

Personally, I’d go for the KSS-III…

 

[dapaterson]

There is no way that the US would outsource that to another nation.

Maybe a Japanese design (and that's a stretch), but most definitely built, etc in the US.

Or an encouragement to an ally to build a larger SSK fleet to come out to play with the USN.

 

[Spencer100]

There is no way that the US would outsource that to another nation.

Maybe a Japanese design (and that's a stretch), but most definitely built, etc in the US.

Plus right now against US law.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/02/asia/japan-south-korea-naval-shipbuilding-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

 

[Good2Golf]

Plus right now against US law.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/02/asia/japan-south-korea-naval-shipbuilding-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

The problem is, US law currently prevents its Navy from buying foreign-built ships – even from allies – or from building its own ships in foreign countries due to both security concerns and a desire to protect America’s shipbuilding industry.

US

“Not” US

 

[Uwish]

110%

Possession is 9/10ths the law. Armed Possession being the other 10th

WRT the subs, I think there are much better options (and mix of options) to cover/control gaps with that are not a manned submarine.

I don't think loosing the capability is prudent. We don't need to go Nuk, there are many conventional options, we really need an expanded presence overall. Whatever happened to that arctic naval base?

 

[Good2Golf]

I don't think loosing the capability is prudent. We don't need to go Nuk, there are many conventional options, we really need an expanded presence overall. Whatever happened to that arctic naval base?

Nanisivik?

To quote the Auditor General’s report of 2022:

6.63 We also found that the Nanisivik Naval Facility will be of much more limited use than first expected. As a result of the decision to scope down the project, the facility will not be equipped to heat its fuel tanks. This will reduce its period of operation to about 4 weeks per year. For the rest of the navigation season, the ships’ refuelling will continue to depend on commercial options or allies’ cooperation. This leaves the navy at risk of not getting replenishment for its ships where and when needed.

And apparently not ready until 2025 to to even that…because the wharf is sinking into the Arctic Ocean…

 

[GK .Dundas]

Nanisivik?

To quote the Auditor General’s report of 2022:


And apparently not ready until 2025 to to even that…because the wharf is sinking into the Arctic Ocean…

Crap .
It's not a really good replacement in any sense of the word.
But would Churchill do as as a starting point to get farther North.? Could you for example stage our hopefully soon to be KC330's out of the airport?
There is a rail line that terminates there if I'm not mistaken it does so in a deepwater port.
I'm thinking baby steps here.