Remains found at Kamloops residential school 'not an isolated incident,' Indigenous experts and leaders warn

[Jarnhamar]

If it were synagogues, mosques, temples, or any other religious group being targeted,

If this was any religious place other than churches burning we would also be calling them hate crimes of epidemic proportions.

 

[Quirky]

so that hopefully actual reconciliation can be pursued and this ugly crap consigned to the history books.

No one knows what actual reconciliation means, not even the FN. Has there ever been an interaction between Canada and FN in general where compensation of some type for some reason hasn’t been the primary topic of conversation? I see it as a difference of opinion, because to me saying “it’s not about money” is a stance that is either naive or intentionally misleading.

I just do not see how group punishing people today who had nothing to do with events of the past will solve anything or contribute to reconciliation.

Welcome to Canada, where you must pay for the sins of your ancestors and you're responsible for the sins of other peoples' ancestors. Even if you immigrated to Canada, or your parents did, you are still responsible.

Yes, I’m aware. There were also children murdered by school staff, with matters buried by said staff and by police. This is well documented in some instances. If, now that bodies are being counted, more investigation is called for, then do it.

There is no clear indication which children died from unnatural causes vs natural, figuring out how to even charge a case with almost no evidence and hoping that any of the staff (who would be in their 80’s) might stay alive long enough to see a court room. Seeking justice is going to be a nearly impossible and too costly of a task at this point. Investigating 30+ year old cold cases is about as terrible of a societal return of investment as it gets. Opening up old wounds that were buried for decades is only going enrage more people and more buildings will be burn down. We are on this path now anyway, it's only going to get worse and drive more hatred.

 

[The Bread Guy]

No one knows what actual reconciliation means, not even the FN ...

I only partly agree with you here.

What I think makes it difficult is that there's such a wide range of ideas re: what "reconciliation" means, both to individuals and to communities on both sides of the issue.

Some said "paying them out" would be a good solution, while others thought this same solution was sometimes (often?) better for the lawyers than the recipients.

Others point to the fact that while this compensates people who've been through the system or affected by the fate of those who've been there, there was still the outstanding question of, "what about those who didn't come back - especially those that nobody was told about?" (BTW, they've been collecting info on those who nobody knows what happened to on an ongoing basis since 2015).

Some extremes at both ends of the spectrum can sometimes be so shrill as to drown out all the less-extreme options/opinions in between.

Others smarter than me on social media said that this took a long time to happen and understand (with the understanding still unfolding), so it'll take a long time to figure out what reconciliation means and how to "do" it.

 

[Remius]

There were 93 recommendations and calls to action that came out of the TRC. Start by actioning those.

 

[Good2Golf]

There were 93 recommendations and calls to action that came out of the TRC. Start by actioning those.

TRC recommendations…Deschamps Report recommendations….clearly the Government would rather depend on sniffly “We must do better” from the PM and his Ministers, than implement concrete remediating actions…

 

[Remius]

TRC recommendations…Deschamps Report recommendations….clearly the Government would rather depend on sniffly “We must do better” from the PM and his Ministers, than implement concrete remediating actions…

Absolutely.

 

[Infanteer]

There were 93 recommendations and calls to action that came out of the TRC. Start by actioning those.

I'm not about cancelling Canada, or self-flagellation for the sins of the father, but having a read of the 93 recommendations doesn't hurt.

TRC Website - NCTR

The TRC website has been archived using the Wayback Machine software. You can view the archived version by clicking here. The Wayback Machine is an archive system for websites. The archived TRC website will work like a normal website, however, it is not being maintained with current information...

trc.ca

 

[Jarnhamar]

We call upon the Government of Canada to replace the Oath of Citizenship with the following:I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada including Treaties with Indigenous Peoples, and fulfill my duties as a Canadian citizen.

This one stuck out to me. Seems like this might be a bit of a loaded issue.

Another is the call for access to Aboriginal traditional healing, I believe in hospitals, if someone requests it.
Our health care system is struggling. Not enough doctors, nurses, PSWs and so on. Every hospital in Canada offering Aboriginal traditional healing (which in itself is a broad term with many different healing traditions within the different belief systems of 630 nations) seems tricky.

Actioning all of the recommendations in the TRC seems like it would be an astronomical cost.

 

[Infanteer]

Yes. I read through them. Some are already in place.

I have no doubt that all are made with the best intent. Some I think may be unrealistically unachievable, and I suspect that some of the calls related to funding are simply indicators of larger cracks in social funding across Canada.

Finally, I'm not sure I agree with a few of them, but would have to read more to understand the context.

It's interesting to see the various reports of how we're doing as a country. Some reports are that the process is stalled, and that we're not doing enough in Canada. But it appears Canada is trying.

https://www.afn.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2020_TRC-Report-Card_ENG.pdf

https://yellowheadinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/yi-trc-calls-to-action-update-full-report-2020.pdf

 

[Kilted]

No one knows what actual reconciliation means, not even the FN. Has there ever been an interaction between Canada and FN in general where compensation of some type for some reason hasn’t been the primary topic of conversation? I see it as a difference of opinion, because to me saying “it’s not about money” is a stance that is either naive or intentionally misleading.



Welcome to Canada, where you must pay for the sins of your ancestors and you're responsible for the sins of other peoples' ancestors. Even if you immigrated to Canada, or your parents did, you are still responsible.



There is no clear indication which children died from unnatural causes vs natural, figuring out how to even charge a case with almost no evidence and hoping that any of the staff (who would be in their 80’s) might stay alive long enough to see a court room. Seeking justice is going to be a nearly impossible and too costly of a task at this point. Investigating 30+ year old cold cases is about as terrible of a societal return of investment as it gets. Opening up old wounds that were buried for decades is only going enrage more people and more buildings will be burn down. We are on this path now anyway, it's only going to get worse and drive more hatred.

I haven't seen any legit claim that any of the children were murdered, besides what some people think. I believe that there is somewhat of a consensus that most of the children died late 19th/early 20th century. I suppose it's possible to find someone still living who may have been accused of sexual assault, but unless this is someone new who is coming forward, I can't have seen the Crown not pursuing charges after TRC if a living individual was named if there was any likelihood of a conviction. Other than that, what would you charge anyone with, corporal punishment in schools was legal back then, it was only actually criminalized in 2004.

 

[Mick]

I haven't seen any legit claim that any of the children were murdered, besides what some people think. I believe that there is somewhat of a consensus that most of the children died late 19th/early 20th century. I suppose it's possible to find someone still living who may have been accused of sexual assault, but unless this is someone new who is coming forward, I can't have seen the Crown not pursuing charges after TRC if a living individual was named if there was any likelihood of a conviction. Other than that, what would you charge anyone with, corporal punishment in schools was legal back then, it was only actually criminalized in 2004.

Respectfully, I'm not sure how a "consensus that most of the children died late 19th / early 20th century" is possible - these unmarked graves have only recently been discovered.

The fact remains, that while we don't know details about how / when / under what circumstances these children died, we do know that they were buried in unmarked graves, without record, by organizations that were entrusted with their care.

Further investigation will provide more information, obviously.

 

[quadrapiper]

Another is the call for access to Aboriginal traditional healing, I believe in hospitals, if someone requests it.
Our health care system is struggling. Not enough doctors, nurses, PSWs and so on. Every hospital in Canada offering Aboriginal traditional healing (which in itself is a broad term with many different healing traditions within the different belief systems of 630 nations) seems tricky.

That actually seems reasonably achievable, especially if approached as a "meet halfway" enterprise: establish a position at each hospital responsible for the delivery of local traditional healing and liaison with the nations of out-of-area indigenous. Make filling and managing it the responsibility of the local First Nation. Fund it out of a non-healthcare pot: it's all tax money, but at least make sure this gig doesn't bite into healthcare funding. Ideally, fund it out of a pot managed by the First Nation(s).

 

[OldSolduer]

TRC recommendations…Deschamps Report recommendations….clearly the Government would rather depend on sniffly “We must do better” from the PM and his Ministers, than implement concrete remediating actions…

“We must do better” Costs serious money. Less money for SNC Lavallin, WE charity and others our dear PM loves so much.

 

[Brad Sallows]

People keep talking about things they don't know.

We don't know whether all the unmarked graves hold children. (That question was raised over the cemetery discovered in SK.)

We don't know during which periods most of those people died, and of what causes. (It defies imagination to believe that all were natural and none were due to physical abuse, murder, or self-harm; it also defies imagination that every one is a child murdered and buried at midnight in an unmarked grave with no record.)

We don't know how many graves were originally marked.

We don't know what records were kept, or which have been mislaid or destroyed.

 

[Mick]

People keep talking about things they don't know.

We don't know whether all the unmarked graves hold children. (That question was raised over the cemetery discovered in SK.)

We don't know during which periods most of those people died, and of what causes. (It defies imagination to believe that all were natural and none were due to physical abuse, murder, or self-harm; it also defies imagination that every one is a child murdered and buried at midnight in an unmarked grave with no record.)

We don't know how many graves were originally marked.

We don't know what records were kept, or which have been mislaid or destroyed.

Fully agree with this post.

I think the anger, at least partly, is due to the fact that these questions remain. The state took custody of these children (it's reasonable to assume that a majority of bodies discovered on school grounds are of school age) and with that came a duty to protect them. If they died in the state's care, for whatever reason, families deserved (and still deserve) to be informed.

edited for clarity

 

[MilEME09]

“We must do better” Costs serious money. Less money for SNC Lavallin, WE charity and others our dear PM loves so much.

Feel good politics wins votes, not concrete action, there was no action with the TRC report, of there wasn't national outrage, this wouldn't be a blip on the government radar. Our whole system is I'm shambles and corrupt

 

[kratz]

“We must do better” Costs serious money. Less money for SNC Lavallin, WE charity and others our dear PM loves so much.

His mock political dramatic apologies are a future government's poison pill. Currently, he will continue to fund pet projects and when future governments don't live up to what "He" acknowledged, the political poison will result.

 

[lenaitch]

We call upon the Government of Canada to replace the Oath of Citizenship with the following:I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada including Treaties with Indigenous Peoples, and fulfill my duties as a Canadian citizen.

I suppose I need it explained to me how an individual citizen can faithfully observe a treaty between the Crown and a FNT.

Yes. I read through them. Some are already in place.

I have no doubt that all are made with the best intent. Some I think may be unrealistically unachievable, and I suspect that some of the calls related to funding are simply indicators of larger cracks in social funding across Canada.

Finally, I'm not sure I agree with a few of them, but would have to read more to understand the context.

It's interesting to see the various reports of how we're doing as a country. Some reports are that the process is stalled, and that we're not doing enough in Canada. But it appears Canada is trying.

https://www.afn.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2020_TRC-Report-Card_ENG.pdf

https://yellowheadinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/yi-trc-calls-to-action-update-full-report-2020.pdf

Interesting link with the Yellowhead Institute. In today's Toronto Star, two executives of the Institute had an opinion piece that included:

" (we are accepting restitution in the form of your cottage or second home on our lands, for instance),"

Do you find these ideas for celebrating Canada Day provocative? Then ask yourself why

Get used to the confrontation, because there’s a lot of it if you want justice in this world.

www.thestar.com

I didn't really get the context of that part of the piece, but if their view is individual citizens are expected to personally fund reconciliation costs, they might lose sympathy.

I haven't seen any legit claim that any of the children were murdered, besides what some people think. I believe that there is somewhat of a consensus that most of the children died late 19th/early 20th century. I suppose it's possible to find someone still living who may have been accused of sexual assault, but unless this is someone new who is coming forward, I can't have seen the Crown not pursuing charges after TRC if a living individual was named if there was any likelihood of a conviction. Other than that, what would you charge anyone with, corporal punishment in schools was legal back then, it was only actually criminalized in 2004.

Historic criminal charges are processed under the law of the land as it existed at the time.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

That actually seems reasonably achievable, especially if approached as a "meet halfway" enterprise: establish a position at each hospital responsible for the delivery of local traditional healing and liaison with the nations of out-of-area indigenous. Make filling and managing it the responsibility of the local First Nation. Fund it out of a non-healthcare pot: it's all tax money, but at least make sure this gig doesn't bite into healthcare funding. Ideally, fund it out of a pot managed by the First Nation(s).

And you may end up with more cases such as this:

Makayla Sault, girl who refused chemo for leukemia, dies

Ontario First Nation girl, 11, dies after abandoning chemo for traditional, alternative treatments

Connie Walker · CBC News · Posted: Jan 19, 2015 7:48 PM ET | Last Updated: January 20, 2015

Girl who refused chemo for leukemia dies
6 years ago
1:25
Makayla Sault, an 11-year-old First Nation girl, dies after abandoning chemo in favour of traditional, alternative treatments 1:25

Makayla Sault, the 11-year-old Ontario First Nation girl who refused chemotherapy to pursue traditional indigenous medicine and other alternative treatments, has died.

The girl died Monday after suffering a stroke Sunday.

"Surrounded by the love and support of her family, her community and her nation … Makayla completed her course. She is now safely in the arms of Jesus," her family said in a statement published by the Two Row Times.

The girl’s case made national headlines and ignited a debate about the validity of indigenous medicine and the rights of children to choose their own treatment. The Saults are from the New Credit First Nation near Caledonia, Ont.

Makayla was given a 75 per cent chance of survival when she was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL) in March. She underwent 11 weeks of chemotherapy at McMaster Children’s Hospital in Hamilton.

Her mother, Sonya Sault, said Makayla experienced severe side-effects and at one point ended up in intensive care.

After Makayla said she had a vision of Jesus in the hospital, she wrote a letter to her doctors asking to stop treatment.

"I am writing this letter to tell you that this chemo is killing my body and I cannot take it anymore."

She left chemotherapy treatment while in remission to pursue alternative and traditional indigenous medicine.

"Makayla was on her way to wellness, bravely fighting toward holistic well-being after the harsh side-effects that 12 weeks of chemotherapy inflicted on her body," the family statement read. "Chemotherapy did irreversible damage to her heart and major organs. This was the cause of the stroke."

Makayla exercised her rights, says children's aid society​

Although her family claims her death was due to chemotherapy, in September, a McMaster oncologist testified at a hearing on a similar case of a First Nations girl refusing cancer treatment that Makayla had suffered a relapse. The doctor also testified that there are no known cases of survival of this type of leukemia without a full course of chemotherapy treatment.

When asked to comment on Makayla's death Tuesday, Ontario Minister of Children and Youth Services Tracy MacCharles said she learned of the girl's death "with great sadness."

"Her precocious joy and optimism left a compelling impression on all she touched," MacCharles said in a statement.

While she would not address the specifics of Makayla's case or the question of whether the ministry failed in its responsibility to protect the child, MacCharles said that "all children in Ontario have the same right to protection and access to health care."

Makayla was a wonderful, loving child who eloquently exercised her indigenous rights … and those legal rights provided to her under Ontario's Health Care Consent Act.- Andrew Koster, Brant Family and Children's Services

"There are times when parents' or guardians' wishes for treatment conflict with those of doctors," she said. "In these cases, we rely on the expertise of the local children's aid societies to investigate concerns and determine if intervention is needed."

The children's aid society that handled Makayla's case, Brant Family and Children's Services, issued its own statement Tuesday.

"Makayla was a wonderful, loving child who eloquently exercised her indigenous rights as a First Nations person and those legal rights provided to her under Ontario's Health Care Consent Act," said executive director Andrew Koster. "The parents are a caring couple who loved their daughter deeply."

A visitation for Makayla will be held at New Credit Fellowship Centre on Thursday from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. A celebration of life service will be held Friday at 11 a.m. at the Six Nations Community Hall. There will also be two evening services for Makayla at the New Credit Fellowship Centre, where her parents are pastors, on Wednesday and Thursday at 7p.m.

Attended 'life transformation program'​

When Makayla decided against continuing chemotherapy, the hospital referred her case to Brant Family and Children's Services. After a brief investigation, it decided Makayla was not a child in need of protection and that it would not apprehend her to return her to treatment.

In an interview with CBC News in May, before the agency closed its investigation, Koster said, "For us to take her away, to apprehend and place in a home with strangers, if that's the case, if there aren't any relatives, when she's very, very ill — I can't see how that would be helpful."

“I think people much more knowledgeable than ourselves need to be involved to look at what types of traditional medicines are being used, how does it fare up to some of the chemo treatments," said Koster.

In July, Makayla travelled to the Hippocrates Health Institute in Florida and took its three-week "life transformation program." A CBC investigation revealed that Hippocrates is licensed as a "massage establishment," and is being sued by former staff who allege the company's president Brian Clement is operating "a scam under Florida law" and practising medicine without a licence.

Makayla touched everyone she knew, said Peter Fitzgerald, president of McMaster Children's Hospital, in a statement.

"Her loss is heartbreaking," he said, extending his condolences to her family.

Precedent-setting case in Ontario court​

Makayla's death comes a few months after an Ontario judge ruled in an unprecedented case of another First Nations girl who also refused chemo.

The girl, whose identity is protected under a publication ban, was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukemia in August. Doctors at McMaster Children's Hospital gave her a 90 to 95 per cent chance of survival.

After 10 days of chemotherapy, she and her mother left McMaster to seek treatment at the Hippocrates Health Institute in Florida.

The mother of the 11-year-old girl, who cannot be identified because of a publication ban, says the resort’s director, Clement, told her leukemia is "not difficult to treat."

Brian Clement, the owner and director of the Hippocrates Health Institute in West Palm Beach, Fla., tells CBC News' Connie Walker to get off his property. (CBC) Clement, who goes by the title "Dr.," denied telling the mother that.

In an interview with CBC's Connie Walker, Clement said, "When we educate them they take care of themselves," he said, before shouting, "You're a liar. Get off the property."

In an interview with CBC News, her mother said, "This was not a frivolous decision I made. Before I took her off chemo, I made sure that I had a comprehensive health-care plan that I was very confident that was going to achieve ridding cancer of her body before I left the hospital. This is not something I think may work, this is something I know will work."

The girl's mother said her daughter received cold laser therapy, Vitamin C injections and a strict raw food diet, among other therapies at Hippocrates.

Judge Gethin Edward rejected the application from the Hamilton hospital that would have seen the Children's Aid Society intervene in Makayla's case.

Link

 

[The Bread Guy]

This one stuck out to me. Seems like this might be a bit of a loaded issue ...

We call upon the Government of Canada to replace the Oath of Citizenship with the following:I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada including Treaties with Indigenous Peoples, and fulfill my duties as a Canadian citizen.

I suppose I need it explained to me how an individual citizen can faithfully observe a treaty between the Crown and a FNT ...

Funny you should mention this - this from 10 days ago, with the final version ....

"... The new language adds references to the Aboriginal and treaty rights of First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples:

“I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada, including the Constitution, which recognizes and affirms the Aboriginal and treaty rights of First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples, and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen." ...