Release Item 5F - Questions Release or Reenrollment (Merged)

[The_Falcon]

Just got back from PD training, this topic came up.  The timeline for CFRG to forward waiver requests to the CDS is sitting around the 2-3 year mark.  And that's if they even decide to send it to him, or assuming the waiver even made it to CFRG HQ, as the UPSO at the CFRC needs to support it first.  In S. Ontario, that won't be likely. 

 

[Tom Stewart]

I was givena f5 discharge in '99.  I have read conflicting reports on what a f5 discharge is.  What is it? Can I appeal it?  Will this effect gov't employment? Can I reenlist?

 

[George Wallace]

Is there a conspiracy going on in the CF?  Are all the guys who belong to the Stewart Clan being given 5F Releases?


Tom Stewart


This topic has been merged with one started by sgt_stewart who got Released at approx the same time as you.  Coincidence?

 

[Tom Stewart]

Yes it is. I just want a straight up no bs answer.

 

[dapaterson]

According to QR&O chapter 15:

5 (f) Unsuitable for Further Service.
Applies to the release of an officer or non-commissioned member who, either wholly or chiefly because of factors within his control, develops personal weakness or behaviour or has domestic or other personal problems that seriously impair his usefulness to or impose an excessive administrative burden on the Canadian Forces.

 

[George Wallace]

According to QR&O chapter 15:

5 (f) Unsuitable for Further Service.
Applies to the release of an officer or non-commissioned member who, either wholly or chiefly because of factors within his control, develops personal weakness or behaviour or has domestic or other personal problems that seriously impair his usefulness to or impose an excessive administrative burden on the Canadian Forces.

Tom/sgt_stewart

I hope this clarifies what has already been told to you in this forum over the past two years.  Now let me clarify something else:

READ the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines and pay very close attention to the Section Posting to the Boards.

You now have a choice to make, not with the CF, CFRG, or any other organization; but with this site.  Which account do you want to keep and which do you want deleted?  Failure to make that decision will result in all your accounts being BANNED.

Is that clear?

George
MILNET STAFF

 

[Tom Stewart]

I am NOT sgt Stewart!  check the ip addy or my email

 

[Kanreikai]

8 years ago was releases under 5F for marijuana use.I called my old Regiment to see.if they could change the release number: They suggested to go trough recruiting center.I called the recruiting center and they have suggested to send my documents to the virtual center.I sent it.After 2 days my file was closed.So  I wrote to the National Defense under Public Inquiries to know if there was any ways I could join back after all these years.( released at 19years old then crossed Canada with a backpack, worked plenty of jobs got defenitly more maturity, fighting in MMA and knockdown karate for almost 3 years and obviously I dont use pot anymore -_- etc etc). I got an answer asking me to go trough the recruiting center.3 days after I received an email from North Bay telling me that my file was transfered to Montreal Recruiting center to start the process so the question is: If the virtual center sent my file in Montreal, does this mean that I have a chance to re-enlist, that they are aware of my case and they giving me a second chance or some bad news are awaiting at the end of the road?

 

[Loachman]

I don't know what you expect to achieve by posting the exact same thing three times, but it certainly won't get you an answer three times faster. Please do not do that again.

I seriously doubt that anybody here can tell you anything worthwhile. You will just have to be patient and await the official response.

 

[mariomike]

You may find this discussion of interest.

Issues upon release, that come back to haunt you, like a 5F ...
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102903.0;nowap

 

[Kanreikai]

using Opera browser with android.Its a piece of crap ^_^

 

[Kanreikai]

thanks for the info guys

 

[templeton]

Hi folks,

This is my first post, and I'm sorry for not making a proper intro but I'm in a bit of a panic. 15 years ago (approx age 22) I voluntary released from my reserve unit. I was a Leading Seaman at the time, and left for no other reason than simple scheduling conflicts with a new career that made it impossible to continue service. I indicated I would be okay with being put on the Supplemental Ready Reserve on the understanding that it would make it easier to re-enlist should it become an option again sometime in the future.

The release was granted without issue. I returned my kit to stores and followed all the out routine instructions provided. The Ship's Office gave the final sign-off and sent me on my way. That was that. Looking back, I didn't receive any formal confirmation following that, but at the time I never thought twice.

Fast forward 5 years...I was in a position that would have allowed me to re-enlist. I returned to the unit to inquire, who directed me to the local recruiting center to start the process. At that time I was told that since I was released NES I wouldn't be able to re-enlist. When I asked what that meant, the explanation obviously came as a shock and surprise to me, and I let them know in no uncertain terms that it had to be some sort of clerical error. I was given a chance to plead my case to the Recruiting Centre Commander (a CWO if I remember), and after a brief investigation he agreed in a follow-up meeting that an error had likely occurred and provided a waiver, allowing me to move forward with the process.

In the end it was all moot anyway. I withdrew from the process for unrelated reasons (an education opportunity unexpectedly presented itself), and nothing more came of it. I didn't think to pursue the NES release matter further since I assumed that since it had been brought to their attention it would be corrected. To be honest, I wasn't even that aware of the gravity of it. I was able to successfully apply for and hold positions with the RCMP that required background checks in the years following. There were never any problems...

Until now. I'm in the process of applying for a US fiance visa. As a former service member I'll be required to show my records at the consulate interview. Anticipating this, I requested a copy which recently arrived. Sure enough, it indicates I was released NES 5(F), which as I've learned from this site is pretty much as bad as it gets; basically the same thing as a dishonorable discharge. Obviously this would be more than enough to sink my chances at getting the visa and in turn basically ruin my life, not to mention crushing my US fiancee.

I honestly don't even know where to start to rectify this. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Pusser]

A 5f Release is NOT a dishonourable discharge (the CF doesn't actually use that term).  In fact, the applicable regulation (QR&O 15.01) states:

(4) Where an officer or non-commissioned member is released, the notation on his record of service shall be as follows:

        (a) if he is released under Item 1(a), the notation “Dismissed with Disgrace for Misconduct” or “Dismissed for Misconduct”, as applicable;

        (b) if he is released under Item 1 for any reason other than Item 1(a), the notation “Released for Misconduct”;

        (c) where he is released under Item 2, the notation “Service Terminated”; or

        (d) where he is released under Item 3, 4 or 5, the notation “Honourably Released”.

 

[templeton]

Okay, thank you for the clarification. I had searched and read several other threads where it talked like a 5(f) was as bad as it gets, and there would be all sorts of consequences in future life.

At least I feel a little better now knowing that it technically still counts as an Honorable Release, but the fact remains that my military records show that my military service was ended on less than favorable terms, which was not the case at all. All things being equal, I'd still like to try and fix it.

 

[PuckChaser]

At least I feel a little better now knowing that it technically still counts as an Honorable Release, but the fact remains that my military records show that my military service was ended on less than favorable terms, which was not the case at all. All things being equal, I'd still like to try and fix it.

And the CDS is the only person who can let you back in if you apply....

 

[ARMY_101]

Okay, thank you for the clarification. I had searched and read several other threads where it talked like a 5(f) was as bad as it gets, and there would be all sorts of consequences in future life.

A 1(a) release is as bad as it gets.

5(f) means: "Unsuitable for Further Service. Applies to the release of an officer or non-commissioned member who, either wholly or chiefly because of factors within his control, develops personal weakness or behaviour or has domestic or other personal problems that seriously impair his usefulness to or impose an excessive administrative burden on the Canadian Forces."

 

[templeton]

Thank you all for the information. I'm very glad I found these forums.

Though I'm not likely to re-enlist, I would just like the record to be accurate. Who knows when it might become pertinent again (or still will be an issue during the US consulate come interview time)? I guess I'll try the Ship's Office and see what they say.

 

[Container]

It may be helpful to have that section of the Qr&o's with you for reference

 

[templeton]

It may be helpful to have that section of the Qr&o's with you for reference

That's a good suggestion should other avenues fail. Thanks!

The reality is that the consulate interviewer may not even have any idea what NES 5(F) even means. He or she may not even care to look at the papers. But I certainly don't want to take any chances with something so important to me on the line.