Recovery - current and the future

[Old EO Tech]

We were able to support multiple fleets before computer based supply systems. I hear this argument again and again. If your supply chain is that broken, take it out back and shoot it because it's a lame duck. Using your argument, every trip with the big wrecker is wear and tear on an assets that will be in short supply and difficult to replace, better to use it for field and exercise work and use civilian pattern trucks to do the mundane stuff.

Logistics is a fact of life, computers or not, ask Hitler or Napoleon.  So we have to balance capabilities with the need to support the fleet.  Taking logistics into account doesn't mean the supply system is broken, it means we need to streamline our effort.  I already take a small sea can village just to support an Inf Bn, I would prefer to not take more if we can properly plan in the procurement phase.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Remind me again how much of the fleet is down waiting for parts?

Part of the problem is planning, part of it is the procurement system and the other part is funding/budgeting and how much priority that unsexy stuff like spare parts get in the scheme of things.

Been thinking about this point, for parts supply. Set a time limit on the system to provide a part. So veh tech needs a brake caliper, he orders the part, if the system cannot provide the part within that time frame, a local supply tech calls up a local supplier or any supplier to get the part and has it delivered to the tech. Supply tech pays with a credit card and the costs are sent directly to NDHQ who has to feel the pain of not providing adequate parts.
Now this is going to work for Milcots and commercial vehicles. AFV's will get tricky as there is limited number of suppliers. However techs should be able to ID parts which are commercially available and place those on a list of buyable parts. For the rest a standard of X % of AFV's of each type must be operational at all times and a plan should be in place to have a war stock of at least 3 months of sustained operations of commonly replaced parts

 

[McG]

Remind me again how much of the fleet is down waiting for parts?

Part of the problem is planning, part of it is the procurement system and the other part is funding/budgeting and how much priority that unsexy stuff like spare parts get in the scheme of things.

Been thinking about this point, for parts supply...

You seem to have assumed some illogical system in which everything is centrally controled and centrally purchased.  There is actually some thought put into which parts are centrally purchased and which are locally purchased.  There is also fairly effective communication between LCMMs and unit level ETQMSs.  You are not going to fix the parts supply system by allowing retail price purchases of items at the local area for expensive items which are procured much cheaper in bulk by the centre.  You are just going to burn away the parts budget faster.

Now this is going to work for Milcots and commercial vehicles.

It will not work for MilCots.  All maintenance for MilCots is contracted to a service provider.  CAF and DND techs are not allowed to do 1st line work on these vehicles, and even some things we would see as operator maintenance require a trip to the contracted shop.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The key point is that any purchase of parts locally comes out of NDHQ and not a "parts budget" as the purpose is to make them feel the pain of not funding enough parts to keep the fleet at acceptable levels. There is always money to be had, to much gets whittled away on frivolous stuff because they don't see it hurting their pet projects.

As for assuming an "illogical system", it certainly was in the 80's, I experience various forms of PWGS contracting and service fun in my current job and since this forum is filled with people bemoaning the state of the vehicle fleets, I did make a small leap to assume the system still fails to provide (the system as a whole, not just the actually system for requesting NATO SN # XXXX-XX-XXXX). Yes it does make sense to buy in bulk, having local purchases would be an alarm that the part forecasting is not living up to reality. Forcing the higher ups to pay the bills would raise the need to maintain adequate part inventories to a higher priority. It's my experience that senior levels of government only react to pain, embarrassment or possibility of promotion.   

 

[McG]

The key point is that any purchase of parts locally comes out of NDHQ and not a "parts budget" as the purpose is to make them feel the pain of ...

NDHQ is not a magical pot of money.  There is a national budget for parts and restocking shelves.  If you allow units to spend this money to punish Ottawa, you are diminishing the budget that ADM(Mat) has available to put parts on the shelves for units.

The idea that "there is always money to be had" is absolutely false in the current environment. Unit budgets have been slashed, the ADM(Mat)'s NP budget has been chopped, and we are canabalizing fleets wholesale to keep vehicles moving.

And getting back to Old EO Tech's point: the more vehicle fleets that you have, the more vehicles you need to carry SPSS every time the unit goes to the field.  Each new micro-fleet introduced a new minimum stock level that the user unit's C/S 8 must be able to carry on its back through exercise and operations. 

 

[MilEME09]

I think part of the issue is as well the storage of our vehicles, lets face it, most military vehicles aren't designed to be stored outside long term through a canadian winter this creates more degradation of parts as they sit in those environments.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One thing I have learned is that there is always a magical pot of money hidden somewhere in a department. I recently saw a large whack of money appears out of one of these pots to deal with a unexpected wrinkle related to the DND.  Money is rarely the issue as is the allocations of received monies and accounting practices. Much of the Forces problems come from not being able to spend the money it gets or re-allocate it to where it's needed.

But you are correct we are veering mighty from the topic of recovery vehicles and all the bits they need to take with them.

 

[MilEME09]

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-BL-316-27563

Looks like the machine is finally turning on this,slowly

 

[dapaterson]

Given world events right now, it's surprising that John Deere isn't listed as an Interested Supplier...

Procurement details - Buyandsell.gc.ca

Details for the tender, award or contract history notice that you are searching for are no longer available on Buyandsell.gc.ca. Government of Canada tenders awards and contract history, including search capabilities, have moved to CanadaBuys. You will find tenders, awards and contract history...

buyandsell.gc.ca

 

[daftandbarmy]

Given world events right now, it's surprising that John Deere isn't listed as an Interested Supplier...

Procurement details - Buyandsell.gc.ca

Details for the tender, award or contract history notice that you are searching for are no longer available on Buyandsell.gc.ca. Government of Canada tenders awards and contract history, including search capabilities, have moved to CanadaBuys. You will find tenders, awards and contract history...

buyandsell.gc.ca

 

[Jarnhamar]

2 CMBG needed to enlist in the help of the US and a dozen or so of their trucks to help transport the brigade to Wainwright.

 

[OldSolduer]

View attachment 70258

Where do I get one!!!!

 

[childs56]

2 CMBG needed to enlist in the help of the US and a dozen or so of their trucks to help transport the brigade to Wainwright.

Yet we have a ton of more than capable vehicles and trailers in Western Canada that could have been contracted to move them across the country.

 

[MilEME09]

Dropping this in the propper thread

Rheinmetall

The Canadian government awarded Rheinmetall a major order for the production of 85 heavy recovery vehicles as part of the Enhanced Recovery Capability project.

www.rheinmetall.com

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Dropping this in the propper thread

Rheinmetall

The Canadian government awarded Rheinmetall a major order for the production of 85 heavy recovery vehicles as part of the Enhanced Recovery Capability project.

www.rheinmetall.com

85 , huh?

So- enough for about a brigade?

 

[MilEME09]

85 , huh?

So- enough for about a brigade?

i Know the original plan was closer to 200, but it was a fixed buy contract, so probably inflation and other factors. We definitely need more than 85 though.

 

[FJAG]

85 , huh?

So- enough for about a brigade?

My post from another thread.

It's a bit nip and tuck.

For comparison, a US Stryker brigade combat team has 23 M984 heavy wreckers. An American armored brigade combat team has 17 but also 31 M88 ARVs. An IBCT has 10 M984s.

85 ERCs (together with 11 ARVs for one armoured regiment) should be quite sufficient for 3 CMBGs with 2 mech and 1 light bn with enough spares for other purposes including the eFP. There's not much slack though and no room for expansion.