Reconstitution

[Navy_Pete]

Topper's advantage is he never working in Ottawa before (the city, not the ship) and doesn't have any Ottawa scar tissue.

That's also his disadvantage. Working on the coast your whole career complaining about Ottawa and never actually seeing how the sausage gets made is something unique for Flag officers.

And the OPSCHED is untenable, we all know it. HMCS Ottawa is the last ship on the west coast that will match the current drumbeat. The Regina delay has changed everything and it's all being rewritten as we speak. The current overarching goal is training and force generation, not force employment.

I"m skeptical it will be anything different, and they will still beat the hell out of the ships while they have them, just in a different cycle.

We need 8-10 week blocks alongside, staggered SWPs and less ships operational. We'll get the same as we have now, just in a 5+2 schedule.

The lack of basic understanding of L1 responsibilities is pretty evident, and "I don't work for CRCN so I'll have to check with with CoC" has come up a few times already, or other scenarios where he has exceeded his authority and other organization have stepped in to say he can't actually do something and follow CAF orders.

Anyone who wants to be a GOFO really need at least one job working somewhere in Ottawa; much easier to figure out as a Lt(N) when people expect you to not know how it works and will go out of their way to explain who does what. You can't give orders though to people who don't actually work for you so at least looking at the Org charts would be good.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I"m skeptical it will be anything different, and they will still beat the hell out of the ships while they have them, just in a different cycle.

We need 8-10 week blocks alongside, staggered SWPs and less ships operational. We'll get the same as we have now, just in a 5+2 schedule.

The lack of basic understanding of L1 responsibilities is pretty evident, and "I don't work for CRCN so I'll have to check with with CoC" has come up a few times already, or other scenarios where he has exceeded his authority and other organization have stepped in to say he can't actually do something and follow CAF orders.

Anyone who wants to be a GOFO really need at least one job working somewhere in Ottawa; much easier to figure out as a Lt(N) when people expect you to not know how it works and will go out of their way to explain who does what. You can't give orders though to people who don't actually work for you so at least looking at the Org charts would be good.

The Log Branch enters the chat...

 

[Navy_Pete]

The Log Branch enters the chat...

We are actively commiserating with them over the PMO's initial provisioning plan. Sure, some things makes sense to be GSM, including low dollar value things, but it's like the PMOs expect that if someone else is buying things they will somehow magically get capacity, spending authority and time.

They are also nice enough to leave it all until ship delivery, vice have a plan ahead of time so that we collectively have some kind of lead time. Fortunately the supply chain is robust and there are no delays so it's fine.

 

[Halifax Tar]

We are actively commiserating with them over the PMO's initial provisioning plan. Sure, some things makes sense to be GSM, including low dollar value things, but it's like the PMOs expect that if someone else is buying things they will somehow magically get capacity, spending authority and time.

They are also nice enough to leave it all until ship delivery, vice have a plan ahead of time so that we collectively have some kind of lead time. Fortunately the supply chain is robust and there are no delays so it's fine.

I'm very interested to see the billeting for the Log Dept. I know the RCN wants nothing more than to get rid of us.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'm very interested to see the billeting for the Log Dept. I know the RCN wants nothing more than to get rid of us.

But.... why?

Having your own log dept that has pretty generous authorities while deployed is a massive benefit, and Navy log seems much better trained than Army/Air Force on how to make things happen. Things that other log officers do full time is someone on ship's secondary.

The basis of a lot of decisions seems to be butthurt and axe grinding.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

But.... why?

Having your own log dept that has pretty generous authorities while deployed is a massive benefit, and Navy log seems much better trained than Army/Air Force on how to make things happen. Things that other log officers do full time is someone on ship's secondary.

The basis of a lot of decisions seems to be butthurt and axe grinding.

So the Navy can give NWO Subbies more secondary duties

"Wadda yah mean you can't be a part time PAO!?"

 

[Navy_Pete]

So the Navy can give NWO Subbies more secondary duties

"Wadda yah mean you can't be a part time PAO!?"

I guess once they get their BWK moustache, they can just do all the jobs.

(My secondary as a phase 6 was the cell phone guy, which included signing all the bills and working with IT, pretty random for the embryO)

 

[Halifax Tar]

But.... why?

Having your own log dept that has pretty generous authorities while deployed is a massive benefit, and Navy log seems much better trained than Army/Air Force on how to make things happen. Things that other log officers do full time is someone on ship's secondary.

The basis of a lot of decisions seems to be butthurt and axe grinding.

Its the age old battle between hard and soft sea trades.

 

[dapaterson]

We are actively commiserating with them over the PMO's initial provisioning plan. Sure, some things makes sense to be GSM, including low dollar value things, but it's like the PMOs expect that if someone else is buying things they will somehow magically get capacity, spending authority and time.

They are also nice enough to leave it all until ship delivery, vice have a plan ahead of time so that we collectively have some kind of lead time. Fortunately the supply chain is robust and there are no delays so it's fine.

"So, PMO, who's paying to outfit the ship - keeping in mind that if it isn't outfitted, you can't meet your definitions of IOC / FOC, and that the requirements documents do not identify anyone outside the project as having responsibilities?"

 

[Navy_Pete]

"So, PMO, who's paying to outfit the ship - keeping in mind that if it isn't outfitted, you can't meet your definitions of IOC / FOC, and that the requirements documents do not identify anyone outside the project as having responsibilities?"

COA 1;

I use, in conjunction with double Picard facepalm, far too often in professional dealings.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Its the age old battle between hard and soft sea trades.

Sure, but normally both sides aren't too busy doing up close colon self checks to realize that everyone likes to eat, and be able to do things like buy things and pay bills in outside of home port. The bulk of our sailing doesn't include FLS.

Or is it one of those scenarios where they don't like hearing no, so rather than understand the rules, they want to do it themselves? Log is there to keep you out of jail, not work miracles. If stuff isn't in the supply system, or shipping takes 14 days, they can't wave a wand.

The RCN is institutionally stupid.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sure, but normally both sides aren't too busy doing up close colon self checks to realize that everyone likes to eat, and be able to do things like buy things and pay bills in outside of home port. The bulk of our sailing doesn't include FLS.

Or is it one of those scenarios where they don't like hearing no, so rather than understand the rules, they want to do it themselves? Log is there to keep you out of jail, not work miracles. If stuff isn't in the supply system, or shipping takes 14 days, they can't wave a wand.

The RCN is institutionally stupid.

I would say the RCN has no real institutional understanding of Naval Logistics.

Maybe that comes from Log being a completely different branch ?

 

[Navy_Pete]

I would say the RCN has no real institutional understanding of Naval Logistics.

Maybe that comes from Log being a completely different branch ?

Maybe it's time for me to move on to something different but bit less optimistic about the institution these days.

I jokingly mocked up a CRCN coin using the image below and regret not submitting it now.

 

[FSTO]

Who is pushing this? Micromanagers?

I love having a person at my fingertips who know more than me about the little things that will get me in trouble. Command is the big picture person, your staff are the ones who keep you out of the ditch.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Who is pushing this? Micromanagers?

I love having a person at my fingertips who know more than me about the little things that will get me in trouble. Command is the big picture person, your staff are the ones who keep you out of the ditch.

Right now there is a lot of upper echelon 'show us the evidence' folks, who then disregard actual evidence if it doesn't line up with their already made up decision.

Still no actual plan on who will cover the Steward's work; those 100ish positions is the equivalent to about a year's intake, and the possible replacements are all still well in the yellow/red. They just arbitrarily put in a date a few years out for what will take about 5 years to transition to in real terms.

COA 1: hope
COA 2: rectal pluck
COA 3: listen to the SMEs

Guess what's become the throw away?

 

[Navy_Pete]

Nothing like a 'no-fail' option, set up for failure at the outset!

 

[FJAG]

So, funny story, RCN crews are no longer able to claim salvage rights.

It comes from s 51 of the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act (I think).

51 (1) In the case of salvage services rendered by or with the aid of a Crown vessel, Her Majesty in right of Canada and the master and crew members of the Crown vessel may claim salvage for salvage services only if the Crown vessel is a tug or is specially equipped with a salvage plant.

 

[Zoomie]

Some confusing messaging being sent by CMP at the command conference in Ottawa last week.

First Sentence : focus on retention and building the force.

Second Sentence : medical retentions will cease.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Right now there is a lot of upper echelon 'show us the evidence' folks, who then disregard actual evidence if it doesn't line up with their already made up decision.

Still no actual plan on who will cover the Steward's work; those 100ish positions is the equivalent to about a year's intake, and the possible replacements are all still well in the yellow/red. They just arbitrarily put in a date a few years out for what will take about 5 years to transition to in real terms.

COA 1: hope
COA 2: rectal pluck
COA 3: listen to the SMEs

Guess what's become the throw away?

I would take issue with the underlined bit. I can guarantee you (I was in the room as a senior staff officer to the guy in charge of all projects including CF-18 and CPF and so on) that the disregard for evidence was a major driving force amongst most (not just many) very senior "operators." They wanted what they had seen in the shiny brochures given out in the gift bags at lavish dinners in very posh hotels - mostly in Washington, abut also in London, Paris and Bonn. We called that stuff "vapourware" but, by all the gods, it was effective.

BTW, even though the DM of the day reminded the "upper echelon" folks that accepting those gift bags was unethical, albeit not, strictly, illegal in the mid-to-late 1980s, only a handful ever even bothered to declare the gifts to DND's brand new conflict of interest watchdog.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I would take issue with the underlined bit. I can guarantee you (I was in the room as a senior staff officer to the guy in charge of all projects including CF-18 and CPF and so on) that the disregard for evidence was a major driving force amongst most (not just many) very senior "operators." They wanted what they had seen in the shiny brochures given out in the gift bags at lavish dinners in very posh hotels - mostly in Washington, abut also in London, Paris and Bonn. We called that stuff "vapourware" but, by all the gods, it was effective.

BTW, even though the DM of the day reminded the "upper echelon" folks that accepting those gift bags was unethical, albeit not, strictly, illegal in the mid-to-late 1980s, only a handful ever even bothered to declare the gifts to DND's brand new conflict of interest watchdog.

Appreciate the insight, I just try to stick to what I know. Would believe that, and wasn't long ago that a lot of defence contractors would have big Xmas parties or something and invite DND people they work with for a meal/drinks.

I'm sure the vapourware still happens, but I think that has largely signficantly decreased (at least openly). I've been in a few big projects and even small things like nice coffee cups get turned down. May still happen much higher up the food chain, but who knows. Even once in contract simple stuff like company swag for things like golf tourney prizes can be awkward, and meals get declared on the travel forms. Pretty common to have hosted lunches (sandwhiches etc) while you are working through something, but that's about it. Still can socialize outside work but it's usually on a no-host basis.