Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[John Mayor]

Yes I have seen personnel on Retention who got promoted, bottom line is you have to do your homework and fully substantiate your eligibility and ability to perform duties.

Here are some key references and points to get you started:
CFP 154 Annex D - MOC Task Statements
CFP 154 Annex E - Minimum Medical Standards for Officers/Non-Commissioned
DIN: http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/default-eng.asp

You must dig and research the CFP 154 to establish that despite not meeting UoS you nonetheless remain capable of performing all of your military duties. Annex D is very detailed into the expectations by Rank & MOSID.

This is the most which you can be given as anything more must be completed by yourself to establish how your situation meets all of the requirements. As I said earlier, its up to you to now do your homework.

Thanks much. I know I have to do my home work but the above will help. I am not much of an admin or med expert and I just wanted to see if any one was in the same boat.. Thanks

 

[Ice97]

What I don't understand is why people think that as soon as they have 30 months in they'll get their hook.  The hook is to symbolize that you have some time in the Military and that you have completed your initial trades training.  I don't really see that changing.  And they're right about completing your QL5 to become a "Cpl"...I got promoted to A/L Cpl in July 2009 (Thought it was kinda stupid when my bio was read and they said that I am highly recommended for my promotion to A/L Cpl)....and I became a Cpl when I completed my QL5 in Dec 2010...you don't get another parade or anything....you just see it on you MPRR.  It's the same deal as people that get their MCpl's and Sgt's before completing their PLQ or QL6.  On the plus side....you're still eligible for the next rank within 2-3 years (depending on what your next rank is) from the day that you get promoted...not from the date you go from A/L to a fully-fledged Cpl or MCpl....or whatever rank you are

 

[Hurricane]

Just going to add my 2 cents here. Your first hook as meaningless as it in fact is, is something untrained Pte's and OS's look forward to. Lets face it, everyone in the cf was at that level at one time or another looking for that recognition, or something that makes them different or feel like theyre progressing. That being said, I am a simple one hooker, but being at my current unit for the last 3 years I have learned one thing. That it simply depends on your CoC and how much they pay attention to the Regs. I have seen people complete their QL3 and get promoted to Cpl on their grad parade due to time in, as well, I have seen LS remusters get DEMOTED to PteT and LOSE PAY and be told that once they complete their QL5 their rank will be reinstated with pay. I have seen one PteB get PteT just because he has 30 months in, and one have to wait 6 months longer because his QL4 wasnt finished, or he hasnt completed the BFT this fiscal year. Basically, If the OC signs off on your hook youll get it, someone just has to forward the paperwork to him (IE Chief Clerk). But your first step in this matter is to bring it up to your admin stick to forward up the CoC. Dont just expect that someone is watching your file to see when youre due.

If there is one thing I have learned in my career so far, you need to stay on top of ALL of your Admin by yourself. The RMS trade has its fair share of gluebags as well. I could go on about that in an entire new thread but I will leave it at that. (PS that was not intended as an insult to the RMS trase as I know some excellent clerks, only to the gluebags.)

 

[Occam]

I have seen LS remusters get DEMOTED to PteT and LOSE PAY and be told that once they complete their QL5 their rank will be reinstated with pay.

I find this very, very hard to believe.

 

[Hurricane]

As do I, however He was a trained LS Posted to ship, deployed to the persian gulf. Remustered to MSE, on his component xfer demoted to PteT and P3 Pay Incentive. Has 12 Years service, was awarded his CD about 4 months ago. BN Chief Clerk has told him that he cannot get his Cpls back until he has his ql5. I didnt believe it either, until he was awarded his CD as a Pte. Wether you believe it or not is irrevelant really not to be a dick, it is simply to prove that there is NO precident for ANYTHING in the CF. If someone with enough bars on their slip on signs off on something, it happens. We've also got a guy who has spent 6 years as an untrained Pte because he has diabetes, can still do his job, has more experience than the chick who got promoted to cpl off of her 3's for having time in on MATA/PATA leave, but because he cannot be deployed, he cant be promoted but thats a whole nother can of worms.

 

[Ludoc]

As do I, however He was a trained LS Posted to ship, deployed to the persian gulf. Remustered to MSE, on his component xfer demoted to PteT and P3 Pay Incentive. Has 12 Years service, was awarded his CD about 4 months ago. BN Chief Clerk has told him that he cannot get his Cpls back until he has his ql5. I didnt believe it either, until he was awarded his CD as a Pte. Wether you believe it or not is irrevelant really not to be a dick, it is simply to prove that there is NO precident for ANYTHING in the CF. If someone with enough bars on their slip on signs off on something, it happens. We've also got a guy who has spent 6 years as an untrained Pte because he has diabetes, can still do his job, has more experience than the chick who got promoted to cpl off of her 3's for having time in on MATA/PATA leave, but because he cannot be deployed, he cant be promoted but thats a whole nother can of worms.

Where are you posted? I just want to know so I can avoid it because it sounds like you have a shitty chain of command.

Or maybe there are things going on with those two you don't know about.

 

[Occam]

As do I, however He was a trained LS Posted to ship, deployed to the persian gulf. Remustered to MSE, on his component xfer demoted to PteT and P3 Pay Incentive. Has 12 Years service, was awarded his CD about 4 months ago. BN Chief Clerk has told him that he cannot get his Cpls back until he has his ql5. I didnt believe it either, until he was awarded his CD as a Pte. Wether you believe it or not is irrevelant really not to be a dick, it is simply to prove that there is NO precident for ANYTHING in the CF. If someone with enough bars on their slip on signs off on something, it happens. We've also got a guy who has spent 6 years as an untrained Pte because he has diabetes, can still do his job, has more experience than the chick who got promoted to cpl off of her 3's for having time in on MATA/PATA leave, but because he cannot be deployed, he cant be promoted but thats a whole nother can of worms.

Good lord, where do I start...

1.  If he was a LS (substantive or otherwise), then he would retain the rank of LS/Cpl on remuster.  If he didn't, someone screwed up on his OT message, and nobody bothered to question the right people on it.  I've seen many, many OTs in my service and not one of them was ever reverted in rank to lower than LS/Cpl - including my own.
2.  If he remustered from <any Naval trade> to MSE Op, that's not a "component transfer", that's an element transfer.  A component transfer is from Reserves to Regular, or vice versa.
3.  Whether he was awarded his CD as a Pte or a Cpl is irrelevant, the CD isn't tied to rank.
4.  That "chick" is a rank higher than you, and according to regulations, earned it - whether you agree with MATA/PATA leave counting towards promotion or not.  The six-year Pte with diabetes isn't deployable, and therefore isn't employable, and is therefore unpromotable.  It sucks, but people who don't meet the medical test for fitness for whatever reason don't get promoted.

I hope you don't project this attitude in the work environment (particularly towards senior "chicks"), because I foresee a correction in your near future.

 

[aesop081]

If someone with enough bars on their slip on signs off on something, it happens.

That might be the perspective that you have, as a Private in 2 Svc Bn, but i assure you that you are far from correct.

but because he cannot be deployed, he cant be promoted but that's a whole nother can of worms.

It is not a "can of worms", it is the reality of serving in the CF. You are not medically fit, you don't get promoted.

 

[Hurricane]

My apologies if my terminology was off, and yes everyone knows your CD is time awarded, not rank. However, very odd that someone with a CD is still a Pte, NO? And the "chick" promoted on MATA/PATA was simply an example of someone getting promoted due to TI, not on Trade Requirements. So if this person is QL3 qualified and can be a Cpl, Why can Person B who was already a LS not be a Cpl with the same trade skills?  It was meerely an example of how rules and regs mean nothing to the power of Pen.

 

[dapaterson]

Key term i nthis story is "component transfer" together with "occupational transfer".  Only rank protection on a CT is Cpl/Capt for individuals qualified in their trade.  This individual was not qualified in their trade when they CT'd, so they dropped back to Pte.

Not "the stroke of a pen", but rather "not qualified on joining the Reg F, and treated in accordance with regulations".

 

[Occam]

My apologies if my terminology was off, and yes everyone knows your CD is time awarded, not rank. However, very odd that someone with a CD is still a Pte, NO? And the "chick" promoted on MATA/PATA was simply an example of someone getting promoted due to TI, not on Trade Requirements. So if this person is QL3 qualified and can be a Cpl, Why can Person B who was already a LS not be a Cpl with the same trade skills?  It was meerely an example of how rules and regs mean nothing to the power of Pen.

Terminology is important because the wrong terminology will confuse the message you're trying to convey.  The person promoted to Cpl off of her QL3 course got promoted within the regulations - it's called Acting Lacking.  You can be missing one prerequisite for promotion and still be promoted.  It happens quite frequently, for a variety of reasons.

In the example you gave earlier, was the LS in the Navy Reg F or Reserve?  If they were Reg F, then their rank is protected on OT.  If they did a component transfer from Res F to Reg F while doing an OT, then the rank of LS/Cpl is not protected - as dapaterson mentioned.

dapaterson, I believe he misused the term "component transfer".

 

[Hurricane]

Yes my appologies, he was reg f navy, and element/occupation xfer'd to reg f army.

 

[Pusser]

Yes my appologies, he was reg f navy, and element/occupation xfer'd to reg f army.

If this is correct, then something seems to have gone horribly wrong.  In my experience, I have never seen an occupation transfer within the same component (which is what has been described here) result in a reduction below LS/Cpl.

 

[CountDC]

and along with something going horribly wrong the member should submit a letter of enquiry and if not satisfied with the results a ROG.  Upon OT Cpls are supposed to retain their rank while MCpl's and Sgt's face the reduction to Cpl although they may retain their pay scale under vested rights in some cases.

With the info provided here this sounds like an admin error that should have been picked up and fixed by COC and C Clk.

Something is not ringing here.

 

[cainegchapman]

I know that one's promotion is totally based on them; their skills, their work ethic, and their potential. But what are the approximate timelines for promotion per rank?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Reg? Reserve? Officer? NCM?

 

[cainegchapman]

I plan to attend RMC, so officer.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Two minutes on Google:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/011-06-eng.asp

PROMOTION TO CAPTAIN, MAJOR, LIEUTENANT-COLONEL AND COLONEL

20. Except as provided in paragraph 21, promotion to the ranks of captain, major, lieutenant-colonel and colonel is competitive and is based on merit and service requirements within each MOC. Officers will be selected for such promotions from among those:

    who have entered the promotion zone for promotion to the next rank on attaining the required number of years of seniority in their current rank as follows -
        as a lieutenant - two years, except that for those commissioned as a lieutenant under the UTPM or CFRP the period is three years,
        as a captain - four years,
        as a major - four years, or
        as a lieutenant-colonel - three years;
    who have been recommended for accelerated promotion in accordance with paragraphs 18 to 21 of the order; and
    who have met the time in rank requirements as adjusted by NDHQ/DPCAO for MOC transfer, MOC training failure, transfer from the reserves and re-enrolment.

 

[Ralph]

Add to the above the annual number of positions open for the career mgr to fill and the trade's historical outlook on speed of promotion.

 

[Zoomie]

and is based on merit and service requirements within each MOC.

It also depends on speaking french, completing your PD and being able to run Exempt on your PT test.  Unlike the PRes, you also compete against every other equally ranked officer in your MOSID - so getting someone on your side when PER season comes around makes a big difference. 

All this goes out the window if someone has identified you for "deep select".