Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[eliminator]

Sorry, this is going to be long winded. Basically I don't agree with the date the Career Manager is going to put on my promotion message following my Admin Review. it appears that he's applying the TCAT policy not the PCAT/AR policy. I'm looking for some opinions.

I found out a couple of days ago through my Career Manager (CM) that a final decision regarding my medical administration review (AR)  has been reached.  They decided that I shall be "retained without restrictions." This implies that I do not breach universality of service and subsequently meet all the prerequisites for promotion to the rank of Lieutenant. (finally after 2 years of TCATs)

The CM indicated that a new promotion message will have to be cut since my original promotion message to the rank of Lt. dated May 2010, (effective Aug 2008) was deferred due to a Medical Administrative Review. According the CM, this previous promotion message is no longer valid since according to (I assume) DGMC Memorandum dated 21 Jun 06: BACKDATING OF PROMOTIONS: Section 7

7. Promotions delayed by temporary medical limitations. When the
promotion of an officer on NCM is deferred as a result of a temporary
medical restriction, it may be backdated to the original date of the
promotion or up to one year - whichever is less - once the temporary
medical restriction is lifted.


From my brief conversation with the CM on the phone regarding the backdating of my promotion, he has indicated that I will be promoted
to Lt. effective June 2009, which was calculated as one year prior to the commencement of my PCAT/AR process. (not sure what reference this
comes from) I believe that the CM is applying the incorrect policy for my situation.

Given that my file went forward in June 2010 for a Permanent Medical Category (PCAT) and a subsequent Administrative Review (AR), I believe
that the policy stated in the lesser know document: EMPLOYMENT LIMITATIONS AND PROMOTIONS: DGMC Memorandum dated 24 July 06: Section
7.a, b., more accurately reflects my situation, as it is NOT a Temporary Medical Limitation:

Permanent Employment Limitations: When a member is selected for
promotion and has been awarded permanent employment limitations:

a. the promotion is to be deferred in the instances where the
career/admin review has yet to reach a final determination. Once the
approving authority has made a decision, the promotion is to be
reconsidered in light of the decision rendered;

b. in instances where a career/admin review has be completed, the
promotion is to be actioned in accordance with the results of the
career/admin review.


In summary, I believe that the policy that the CM is implementing regarding my promotion is incorrect, as it applies to temporary
medical limitations (TCAT) and not those of the PCAT/AR process which I incurred. By enacting the temporary medical restrictions policy, I will be disadvantaged by approximately ten months of seniority in rank and will have to serve time in the rank of Lt. before promotion to the rank of Capt. (which I'm already in the position of since May of last year)

By nature of the PCAT/AR process, several months, if not a year, is required to complete the entire process. The time frame of "one year
or less" used in the backdating of promotion for temporary medical restrictions is not appropriate in the case of members incurring the
PCAT process as it is beyond their control how long the process takes. Clearly, in my opinion, the policy designed to protect me, the member,
is not being implemented to their fullest regarding the backdating of my promotion.

Thoughts? Am I out to lunch on interpreting the policy?

 

[CountDC]

From what you give here at the moment the CM appears correct and to your benefit as you indicate you were on TCAT for 2 years and then PCAT in Jun 2010.  The one you are using would have you promoted a year later - Jun 2010.  It would apply if you became listed for promotion while on pcat and it was deferred due to pcat requiring the c/a review.  Your promotion was delayed due to your tcats which enables the CM to backdate it the extra year vice instead of the start of your pcat.

 

[agc]

Sorry to bring this back.  I missed a few posts on this thread.

That's changed, I've seen a lot of acting lack ranks in the PRes now. Sgts finally getting their QL6a, MCpls without their QL5s.

Right, this is basically what I said, just in a different way.  Managed to get into the CFAO this morning (it's 49-5 for Reserves if anyone needs it, but not avail on the internet at the moment).  Para 8 states that  a leadership qualification cannot be waived in respect of promoting a member to the next rank.  So the situations you describe are legit, but a Cpl seeking promotion to MCpl cannot be lacking the PLQ for example.

This one has me scratching my head.  I can't get promoted to Cpl unless and until I graduate from my QL5, so how is someone promoted to the 'appointment' of MCpl without it?

P Res promotion policy is different from Reg F.  The same CFAO as above refers (vice 49-4 for Reg F).  See Annex A Appendix 1.  Your QL3 (aka QL1) is the required occupational qual.

They *cannot* take an uncontrolled rank away, 2 years, 4 years, doesn't matter.  It used to be that they would revert you to Pte if you didn't have the equivalent of 4 yrs in + promotion to Cpl upon transferring to the RegF, but that has changed in the past couple of years.

If you see:

For information on rank protection, you'd want to refer to CF Mil Pers Instr 03/08, para 4.7. Available on page 9 of this document: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/doc/03-08-eng.pdf

They can protect an uncontrolled rank, but only if certain criteria are met.

 

[JMesh]

P Res promotion policy is different from Reg F.  The same CFAO as above refers (vice 49-4 for Reg F).  See Annex A Appendix 1.  Your QL3 (aka QL1) is the required occupational qual.

Actually, it looks like that may have changed. DAOD 5031-8 notes the same QLs for both RegF and PRes, though it also notes that the course itself may be different, and when it is, shall be named as such (PRes QL3, PRes QL5, etc.)

 

[agc]

Good eye.  However, this reference describes the framework for Professional Development.  The CFAO is the actual career policy that governs promotion authorities.

 

[clericalchronicals]

If you see:

They can protect an uncontrolled rank, but only if certain criteria are met.

Actually, take that reference one step further, to Para 4.3, specifically where they speak of the "RPE" or review of previous experience.  Mark my words, just because you are a Cpl in the reserves does not by any means make you eligible to retain that rank in the RegF.  I've processed enough of these files to be able to say that.  Cheers.

 

[Bonko]

I've been reg force for just over a year and my clerk and and sergeant major have been a bit bewildered by my promotion paperwork. I came over as Pte (T) as a skilled CT during that arty signing bonus time and was allowed to keep my "hook" as I came over to the regs as skilled. However on my EPZ it says Sept 2013 is when I can get my Bdr (Cpl) at the earliest however the thing that confuses my clerk is that I was granted Pte (T) should I not be able to get advanced promoted within a year of coming over? If any light could be shed on this situation it would be great.

Ubique

 

[Biohazardxj]

What did your ETP instructions say for Rank, TCP, and IC?

 

[Bonko]

Pte (T) for rank, 204 days TCP and IC. If I read all the info right on my ETP message.

 

[PuckChaser]

You need 3 years qualified service to be a Cpl in the RegF. If they gave you 204 days credit, you would need 2 years, 161 days from your TOS date to be eligible for accelerated promotion.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/049-04-eng.asp Annex A, table 1.

 

[Bonko]

Oh I know that,  the most confusing part that boggles the clerk and myself is that on all of my official paperwork it notes Pte (T) which is wrong then because in the regs don't you need 30 months to be Pte (T)? Once you get Pte (T) you can technically be promoted to Cpl within 6 months upon receiving your "hook" so long as you don't screw up. It's just a really confusing situation in general haha.

 

[PuckChaser]

Pte(T) is an uncontrolled rank and you were rank protected to that rank. No time requirement for uncontrolled ranks.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/doc/03-08-eng.pdf Para 4.7

 

[Bonko]

Excellent. Thank you very much for that clarification.

 

[PuckChaser]

No problem. Took me a lot of research to figure the system out when I was preparing for a CT.

 

[John Mayor]

I know what you’re going to say about being promoted while on category… NO…but, I am trying to find a loop hole. As anyone who has had a long lasting medical condition knows it is very mentally draining and hard on the member and their family. I have been dealing with a medical condition for the last 6 years that has finally resulted in my release/accommodation. During the long ordeal I have maintained my physical fitness, professionalism, work ethic and overall pride of being a serving member. I have almost 20 years of service between the Res and Reg Force, serving in two trades. In my present trade I have ranked in the top three for the last three years. I have already completed my JLC in my prior trade and I was a MCpl in my first trade. Three years ago I completed the full screening for promotion and it went as high as the CO and then he deferred it…I have been acting and representing the CF as a leader and I have not stopped serving full time. I may have more doctor appointments than the average Joe but I do not have any limitations except I am non deployable.  I know that I am probably barking up the wrong tree, but I am hoping that in our community there is someone who is willing to stand up and help me with this. All of my supervisors say that it is a injustice but they are willing to accept the fact that I am not promotable and leave it at that. If anyone has cases or any information that can assist me I would appreciate it. I have 15 days to present information or documentation to support my promotion.

The kicker is that with my category it states I still have to do a PT test. Kicking me out, not promoting me and I still have to do the Expres test, Wow. Please do not think that any of the above deters me in anyway, I will serve with pride and I will continue to support my brothers and sisters in uniform.

 

[George Wallace]

I know that this is not much help (perhaps I am wrong), but if you are a Cpl you are not talking about a promotion but an appointment to MCpl.  In a way, that is a technicality. 

 

[krustyrl]

I also know of someone in pretty much the same situation as you.  On a PCat, on a Retention, NOT  promotable, no chance for career courses and being released medically.  WTF purpose does doing a PT test serve this member.? 
If he were to fail a certain portion of it, he goes on C+P  or whatever.??  I agreed with him/her and a few SrNCO's during an informal discussion that this does not prove anything, and puts undo stress/anxiety on the member when he/she probably feels insignificant as it is during his retention. 

Insert a little coin here...    :2c:

 

[PMedMoe]

Are you in a medical trade or are you asking this here because it's a medical question (which IMHO, it isn't).  I suggest this be moved to Military Administration.

 

[George Wallace]

.........  WTF purpose does doing a PT test serve this member.? 

Not all people on TCAT or PCAT are physically unable to do the PT Test.  They may have other health related problems.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Yes I have seen personnel on Retention who got promoted, bottom line is you have to do your homework and fully substantiate your eligibility and ability to perform duties.

Here are some key references and points to get you started:

DAOD 5032-1
Any period of retention subject to employment limitations is a transitional period of service leading to release from the Reg F or P Res. During this period the CF member is expected to perform all military duties except those related to the CF member’s employment limitations. During the period of retention, a CF member:
...
is only eligible for promotion if he or she meets the applicable promotion criteria.

CFP 154 Annex D - MOC Task Statements
CFP 154 Annex E - Minimum Medical Standards for Officers/Non-Commissioned
DIN: http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/default-eng.asp

You must dig and research the CFP 154 to establish that despite not meeting UoS you nonetheless remain capable of performing all of your military duties. Annex D is very detailed into the expectations by Rank & MOSID.

This is the most which you can be given as anything more must be completed by yourself to establish how your situation meets all of the requirements. As I said earlier, its up to you to now do your homework.