Posting Policy-Out of Canada (OUTCAN) [MERGED]

[Eye In The Sky]

AIRCRA and PLD are taxable benefits as well. 

 

[392]

If the guys that were in Camp Mirage were paying tax on their FSP/Risk/Hardship, there is no reason why someone in an Embassy or NATO headquarters shouldn't be paying tax on their FSP.

No CF pers in Mirage were paying taxes on FSP/risk/hardship. Base pay yes, those allowances, no.

 

[PuckChaser]

No CF pers in Mirage were paying taxes on FSP/risk/hardship. Base pay yes, those allowances, no.

Thanks for the clarification, I was under the impression everything was taxed.

 

[captloadie]

Having recently returned from an OUTCAN, I can say that there is a very large gravy train. I pay more now to live in Canada than I did when I was OUTCAN, and I'd say my standard of living has actually decreased by moving back to Canada. Now, every location is different, so I won't speak for others who may have been posted to less hospitable locations.

Would I go OUTCAN again if they reduced some of the allowances and made others taxable? It would depend on the location, but likely yes, as it was an experience my family positively enjoyed.

 

[DAA]

Apparently DFAIT is changing rules for some benefits.  As those benefits are the same for CF members, the DFAIT changes will impact CF members as well.

The bulk of CF benefits are based on the FSD's (Foreign Service Directives).  So if DFAIT is changing the playing field, CF benefits will be impacted.  If they lose, we lose.

 

[stokerwes]

My first tour(2001) I paid taxes on everything. The tax free part was because of pressure on the Feds. Because the Americans were not paying taxes on their equivalent to FSP and Hazard Duty Allowance. The CDS at the time was down to visit and this was brought up.
He said that the tax free thing would never happen. Next year all FSP and Hazard pay was tax free.
I don't think it should be taxed. But then again I don't think we should be paying federal or provincial taxes on money we make outside of Canada. A few times I have been out of Canada 300+ days in a year and not in Europe at an Embassy.
The list goes on.
Doesn't surprise me though.
Nickle and Dime the troops/

 

[Strike]

Nickle and Dime the troops/

Everyone is being nickle and dime'd.  Why should we be any different?

 

[dimsum]

Having recently returned from an OUTCAN, I can say that there is a very large gravy train. I pay more now to live in Canada than I did when I was OUTCAN, and I'd say my standard of living has actually decreased by moving back to Canada. Now, every location is different, so I won't speak for others who may have been posted to less hospitable locations.

Would I go OUTCAN again if they reduced some of the allowances and made others taxable? It would depend on the location, but likely yes, as it was an experience my family positively enjoyed.

Same here.  Even though the gravy train is less gravy (apparently), the experience and contacts you get still make up for it, depending on the location.  YMMV.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Everyone is being nickle and dime'd.  Why should we be any different?

Universality of service

 

[dapaterson]

How does that apply in this instance?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

She asked why we shouldn't be Nicole and dimed. I gave a reason. Some think that soldiers the true ambassadors for our country should be provided some perks.

 

[dapaterson]

She asked why we shouldn't be Nicole and dimed. I gave a reason. Some think that soldiers the true ambassadors for our country should be provided some perks.

Like $56K a year to a 23 year old with no training or experience outside the military?  Like allowances to compensate for conditions that CF members may not experience while in receipt of them?  Like the ability to retire with an immediate annuity at age 42?  Heck, even Members of Parliament have to wait until age 60 to draw their pensions...

 

[blacktriangle]

There's a lot of things broken in the CF, but pay and benefits aren't among them.

 

[McG]

There are certainly things broken within compensation and benefits.  Consider the previously alluded to LDA and SDA which reward posting messages as opposed to actually rewarding time in the field or at sea.

 

[dimsum]

I think we may be getting sidetracked here, but the benefits (FSP) that are being looked at are only applicable for pers posted OUTCAN for a full posting, not people deployed (ie. Kabul).  The last direction when I was in KAF attached to the Aussies was that Operations FSP is a different kettle of fish. 

Can't remember the specifics right now, but a lot of the foreign service benefits is due to cost (and exchange rate) differences between Canada and the country you're posted to.  For example, it's much more expensive to buy groceries, etc. in Australia than in Canada; for some common things like fruit and veg, you're looking at double the price.  Another part of our allowances is a rent allowance, as in some places houses/apts are a lot more expensive.  The list goes on.

As I've said before, I totally understand that everyone is getting budgets slashed and we need to save when we can.  I just don't want people to get confused with what people get on deployments vice those who are actually posted outside Canada for a few years.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Like $56K a year to a 23 year old with no training or experience outside the military?  Like allowances to compensate for conditions that CF members may not experience while in receipt of them?  Like the ability to retire with an immediate annuity at age 42?  Heck, even Members of Parliament have to wait until age 60 to draw their pensions...

I totally agree. Some would argue that, that is a small price to pay for working for an organization that can move you yearly if they really wanted to or send you to the next shit hole on the map. I understand people sign up knowing full well what they are getting into and the benefits we do receive can offset the other half of the shit sandwich.

 

[dapaterson]

All my previous points being said, military leaders cannot be come complacent and must remain engaged with political leadership to ensure we don't sacrifice compensation & benefits for service members.

 

[Wolf1412]

I am currently OutCan for the 3rd time posting and have 6 tours. Each on of those is directly refelcted in the FSP points I have earned. When they seperated points in 2003 I could accept that and it was directly related to how you accumulated Harship Bonus Pounts.

The FSP points that each person here has recieved over the years are points earned for service outside of Canada. Cuttting the related allowances is no different then your monthly being cut and if that was to happen it would draw much more attention.

You earn your rank and related pay raises, your earn your FSP Points. I can accept FSP being taxed but then maybe it should be reflected in our pension. but cutting FSP!!!!! :rage: I reiterate that these are EARNED. I am sure no one wants anything they earned taken away.

That being said, this is only in the discussion phase and nothing is concrete.

 

[stokerwes]

I am currently OutCan for the 3rd time posting and have 6 tours. Each on of those is directly refelcted in the FSP points I have earned. When they seperated points in 2003 I could accept that and it was directly related to how you accumulated Harship Bonus Pounts.

The FSP points that each person here has recieved over the years are points earned for service outside of Canada. Cuttting the related allowances is no different then your monthly being cut and if that was to happen it would draw much more attention.

You earn your rank and related pay raises, your earn your FSP Points. I can accept FSP being taxed but then maybe it should be reflected in our pension. but cutting FSP!!!!! :rage: I reiterate that these are EARNED. I am sure no one wants anything they earned taken away.

That being said, this is only in the discussion phase and nothing is concrete.

Unless your a Mar Eng. PO1 Spec 2 promoted after Feb 2012.
I had to get that in.
Other posters keep mentioning a young person making over 50k a year is enough benefit. Where else could you trust a junior employee to watch over millions of dollars worth of equipment? How many other jobs can fine you and either dock your pay or place you in cells for your behaviour, even if not on duty? The pay that all CF members earn is well deserved. Taking money out of soldiers pockets to meet budget targets is just wrong and in my opinion lazy. There are many,many other ways that money can be saved in the CF.

 

[stokerwes]

Like $56K a year to a 23 year old with no training or experience outside the military?  Like allowances to compensate for conditions that CF members may not experience while in receipt of them?  Like the ability to retire with an immediate annuity at age 42?  Heck, even Members of Parliament have to wait until age 60 to draw their pensions...

What about the risks and responsibilities that 23 year has to deal with? No other employer is going to move you every few years, often at short notice.  Not all 23 year olds in the military have no training or experience. I would say the majority of the pers that are in the conditions that warrant allowances are not there for the money. If they are the amount is really a pittance.
How many MP's are broken beyond repair either physically or mentally after 25 years of service? I'd hazard to guess there are a lot more CF members injured than MP's.
CF members are unique in all aspects. To compare us to any other group is apples to oranges. Any compensation or benefits any of us get are well earned and deserved. Are their people that abuse it? Of course. Should the majority suffer because of this? Absolutely not.
Money can be saved elsewhere in the CF.
I haven't seen very much of the tail being reduced yet, aside from the changes to IR. What I am seeing is the tooth end slowly get chipped away.
Leave the compensation and benefits alone.