Peaceniks Try Direct Mail on Vandoos Destined for AFG

[Not In My Name]

You know, one thing I've always thought funny about people like Not In My Name and Valcartier2007 is that they are essentially scared and ignorant, just like the rest of us.

I agree that the bulk of society is wilfully ignorant and even zombie-like - hell look at voter turnout in Canada or our insatiable desire for "stuff". Those things make me mad/scared too and I try my best to do my part by recycling, eating local foods, consuming less, driving less, supporting local business, getting involved with local politics, voting, joining the Army to help my fellow man, etc. However, what Not In My Name et al. do when they see the same problems is retreat into a world of hubris, rhetoric and moral superiority. That way they can scoff at us "zombies" with our "head in the sand" and say to themselves "I'm not like them, I'm better."

I'm starting to think that some people here are willfully ignoring what we are writing. My last relevent comment (putting aside the zombie digression) was about how we are also fallible human beings; I specifically wrote that I don't consider myself morally superior; that I am indeed full of contradictions; I implied that I am myself a consumer of goods, some of them useless; that we don't think that soldiers are stupid (we must have written this a dozen times already, but it seems you don't want to believe us!) and that we don't think we're better than the rest of the people. In some ways, we all are zombies, if you will.

We just have a different political analyses of the world than most, and we do blame the global capitalism system and imperialism for a lot of what's wrong with the world today.

The saddest part is that their ilk will rarely put their money where their mouth is and actually do something to change the world other than mouth slogans like... well, like zombies.

In fact, as we have said before as Valcartier 2007, all of us spend a great deal and energy within social justice movement, fighting for migrant rights, against the criminalisation of difference and/or dissidence, with international solidarity projects, in direct solidarity with victims of savage capitalist development abroad, in unions, student movements, housing rights and, as is the case here, against militarisation and the Economy of War. In Montreal we are specifically targeting the corporations and individuals who profit from War, the people responsible for the absurd catastrophe in the making that is Canada's mission in Afghanistan, the imposture of the "war on terror", and so on.

I assure you that we do put our money (or lack thereof, actually) where our mouths are. I would guess that you don't spend much time paying attention to what anarchists and activists are doing on a day to day basis. Except when we launch a public campaign that concern you directly.

Soldiers are often very well educated, worldly people who have formed strong opinions about how they would like the world to be.

Again, we never said or even suggested that soldiers are not capable of rational thinking and to form ideas and opinions for themselves. This is getting repetitive.

The irony here is that most soldiers are probably truer socialists than these anarchists.

Socialism, like most once relevant political concept, such as, say, democracy, don't mean much anymore because it's been used and recycled a billion times times by any conceivable political ideology to justify their means.

It's true that it's been used by totalitarian regimes to justify atrocities. I personally don't give too much credit to such concepts because it lost all meaning a long time ago.

Democracy, for instance. How many times have I read on this forum that "we", meaning the Canadian armed forces, are fighting abroad to protect our democratic rights here in Canada.

This is completely absurd! This is George Bush logic! And it's obviously the official PR drill that you guys get. It's ridiculous, every time a PR officer get in the media they pitch the same tired old line!

You don't protect democracy by bombing or occupying a foreign countries. You don't celebrate democracy by installing a puppet regime made of war criminals or by leading subversive wars and covert operations to topple democratically elected regimes (yes, like our main ally has been doing consistently all over the world for more than 60 years now. Yes. I know, we are Canada, not the US. But a very elementary study of our recent history will show how our economies, and therefore political agendas are very closely linked. Our explicit support to the "War on Terror" is very indicative of this increasing integration. Check out for the North-American Security and Prosperity Partnership, coming to a town near you. )

When you have a "choice", every 4 to 5 years, between a bunch of wealthy white guys who all worship at the altar of profit and economic growth, what you have is a plutocracy. Not a democracy. We are living the illusion of democracy, which is institutionalised privilege. Again I'm repeating myself.

And on the same logical framework, you don't reinforce security by killing people. We are obviously less secure now than we were before Canada jumped on the "War on Terror" bandwagon. And the further we go down that path, the more we are objectively identified with the US program, and the less we are secure.

And the more we need soldiers, that we recruit in CEGEPS, on reserves, among the poorer classes of people, etc.

Again, the question is, how do you put an end to a vicious cycle?

P.S. I'm still waiting for your alternative solution to our problem in Afghanistan. 

We're working on it. Maybe if you ask a thousand more times, it'll go faster. 

NIMN

 

[Yrys]

Again, the question is, how do you put an end to a vicious cycle?

We're working on it. 

Just my opinion, but shouldn't you have work on it before sending the letter ?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

NIMN,

I have given you the benefit of the doubt so far:

Not in My Name,

Although I completely disagree with much of your argument, and contend that many of your "facts" are merely articles of faith, of cant that has been de-canted, I will admit that, on the whole, you seem to have honestly attempted to engage in civil discourse - and on the whole, that approach has been reciprocated.

The discussion to date has been interesting - I hope that it remains civil.  Having said that, put a mongoose and a cobra in a cage, and even if you provide a checker board, they are probably not going to play checkers...

I have even accepted the fact that you fail to realise that items of faith or opinion are being purported to be fact:

Democracy, for instance. How many times have I read on this forum that "we", meaning the Canadian armed forces, are fighting abroad to protect our democratic rights here in Canada.

This is completely absurd! This is George Bush logic! And it's obviously the official PR drill that you guys get. It's ridiculous, every time a PR officer get in the media they pitch the same tired old line!

I am afraid though that I am going to have to call you on this one:

And the more we need soldiers, that we recruit in CEGEPS, on reserves, among the poorer classes of people, etc.

This is an overtly classist and even racist comment, and beyond the pale - and reflects your ignorance of the demographic from which the Forces is drawn.

It's sad really - the discussion seemed worthy of my attention.  Now, not so much.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
And the more we need soldiers, that we recruit in CEGEPS, on reserves, among the poorer classes of people, etc.

Tread lightly, my friend, especially today. I[ and I'm sure most on here] am not in the mood for insults towards those who put lives on the line so that you have the freedom to insult them.

 

[Not In My Name]

Quote,
And the more we need soldiers, that we recruit in CEGEPS, on reserves, among the poorer classes of people, etc.

Tread lightly, my friend, especially today. I[ and I'm sure most on here] am not in the mood for insults towards those who put lives on the line so that you have the freedom to insult them.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I fail to see the insult here.

I also fail to see how my comment is classist or racist. Are you saying that he Army is NOT recruiting among, student, natives and poor communities. Did I make this up?

I always held the belief,that armies, all of them, did in fact recruit in marginalised communities and that that, in fact, is a racist and classist dynamic. I'd be interested in knowing how exaclty I'm mistaking here. I actually live by an anti-classist and antiracist code of life, you see, so I'm really interested to know how I'm going wrong here, there is always room for improvement.

Again, It was not my intention to insult anyone.
But maybe you can indicate to me what is false about this remark, so that I can maybe understand better the dynamics of military recruitment.

Sincerely,

NIMN

 

[Etienne]

Alright, been in the side line for a while but now I need to talk...

First : I am from Valcartier and I will be on parade Friday marching with all my brother's in arm
Second : By fall I will be in A-Stan,making sure that people over there will in the years to come have the same liberty of speech as NIMN and people of war on war
Third : Insult on my school degree will NOT be tolerated you better have a masters in something really important to permit yourself a comment like that. You would be surprise to find out some guys school degree...you would see that a lot have their University complete. But still they join, something that even if I explain, you would never understand.....

Etienne

P.S While writting, saw your reply... and yes I was offended maybe it's because I am to dumb to understand you correctly.. :

 

[Etienne]

In fact NINM in your profile ...would you be kind enough to tell : your age, school degree and branch and what you do for a living... don't be shy..

Thank you

Etienne

 

[Mortar guy]

NIMN,

You're back-pedaling hard here. You can deny all you want but everyone who has read these posts of yours has seen the following:

Well I am confirming to you right now: I believe soldiers are ensnared in a transe-like conformity, but no more and no less that the general population.

Most comments made by military personnel on this very thread, on this very forum, confirm that soldiers are a generally conservative bunch, very much in line with the dominant values of said societies: patriotism/nationalism, allegiance to institutions, total faith in the capitalist system, etc.

At some point, soldiers are also going to break with this transe-like conformity

Etc., etc.

I have read all your posts and I have no doubt in my mind that, despite your exhortations to the contrary, you really do think yourself superior to most of society. You present your opinions as "indisputable facts". Here's a gem that proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are blinded by your rhetoric and are far too naive:

Conveniently, no one has even tried to challenge this assertion - the point and crux of my intervention, really -  that we, of the wealthiest Western nations, are profiting daily from the colonial and imperialistic policies that our governments have imposed on the rest of the world for centuries.

Just ignoring for a moment that this is a non sequitur, explain to me exactly how Canada is profiting from Afghanistan. Their economy is smaller than PEI's and they have nothing we want in terms of resources and territory. We have poured billions of dollars into this mission and have lost 60 of our nation's best in an effort to bring peace to the Afghans. So again, how are we profiting? I promise you that if you reply with the words "George Bush" or "U.S." or "empire", your argument will be laughed at by all those with an IQ higher than the ambient air temperature. Try to respond without slogans or canned anarchist phrases and we'll see what you come up with.

Making blanket statements like:

Not to install puppet regimes that serve our elites' interests. Not to protect the war criminals and murderers who are on this government. Not to brutally occupy their ancestral territory. Not to pretend helping them by building a road in the North while shooting farmers in the South.

Also belies your lack of knowledge about a very nuanced and complex situation in Afghanistan. This is all rhetoric, I know, but let's assume that you really did know something about Afghanistan and it's recent history. Well, then you would know that, unlike the absolute statements above, the Afghan government is not a puppet regime but rather one elected by the majority of the Afghan people. And, while there are some unsavory characters in both the Government and Parliament, there are many more like Minister of Education Hanif Atmar or Minister of Finance Ahadi who are enlightened, educated leaders. Afghanistan has a functioning independent parliament and a constitution developed by Afghans. As for brutally occupying Afghanistan, your hubris probably does not allow you to see that we are there at the behest of the UN and at the invitation of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. Just to add some icing to the cake - we've also built stuff in the south and tend not to shoot farmers unless they shoot at us first. This last statement of yours would be exceedingly insulting except for the fact that it comes from someone so unaware of the reality of Afghanistan.

At the end of the day, you still come to this debate without a hint of an alternative solution. We have been told a number of times that your proposal is coming and that we just have to be patient. This is easily the most hilarious cop out I have ever witnessed! Well done. You've gone to all the trouble of forming groups (War on War etc.), mass-mailing letters, joining Army.ca for a good debate and you only thought of developing a counter-plan after someone here prompted you!! You have to be kidding!? This is why I will never take you seriously and why I wrote what I wrote earlier: your doctrine is a smokescreen to hide your insecurity and nothing more.

Again I'm repeating myself.

Here's a tip that will help you avoid this problem: if you present a coherent and complete argument the first time, without holes big enough to drive a truck through, you won't have to repeat yourself. You'll find that people here love to pile on people who present poorly thought out ideas. It's part of this whole independent-thinking thing we're trying on.

MG

 

[Carbon-14]

...We're working on it. Maybe if you ask a thousand more times, it'll go faster. 

I'm sorry, but maybe if you stopped saying "Its coming, its coming!" and actually deliver it (has many days has it been?) people wouldn't continuously ask for it.  And to be honest, your posts feel like a lot of vague promises but little substance.  A promise of utopia as soon as we all realize that the bourgeois is the enemy of the working man.  Of course we ALL have to realize it or it doesn't work.  I'd be much more convinced if Not in My Name/V2007 can point to where their system is working successfully.  Of course its not working anywhere because the evil corporations/capitalist system of exploitation won't let it.  I will not contend for a second that our system is perfect, but for the most part it works.  I've read through what you've said and I don't believe that what you propose will ever work.  Maybe I'm dumb, maybe you're just bad at explaining it.  But as long as the majority of people are like me (perhaps a sheep.  But a happy sheep!), your system is insurmountably flawed.


I also think it most Canadians heard your complete message they most definitely would not be on your side.  But perhaps I'm wrong.  I do believe you should take a step back, finish your proposal on fixing Afghanistan (and maybe the world) and bring it here when you're done. 


P.S.  I'm starting my own anarchy club.  Message me if you're interested.  Elections for vice-president start Saturday.    ;D

+1 to Mortar guy's posts

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Soooo-

To sum this up so far-

1. Soldiers are smart, unless we are stupid or zombies  (V2007 will let us know when each happens).

2. V2007 wants CANADA OUT OF AFGHANISTAN NOW!!! (I always read that as a yell...) but, errr... didn't really have a follow up plan for what would happen next.

3. Democracy, Socialism, Capitalism (in fact all -isms) mean whatever anyone wants them to mean. Again, V2007 will let us know when we get the definition "right".

4. Most everything bad in the world can be laid squarely at the feet of Imperialism and Capitalism (whatever Imperialism and Capitalism "mean").  The USSR was evidently on the verge of utopia before NATO and the US ambled along...

5. The US Government, led by the evil genius GW Bush is the puppet master, pulling pretty much every string in the world.

6. Canadian soldiers, apparently, are recruited (pressed?) from trailer parks and are incipient war criminals, every one of us.

7. V2007, having never spent a day in uniform, knows more about our COIN doctrine (having read a book! about it) than any of us who have devoted our lives to the study of armed conflict.

...It is like arguing with a 7 year old. I agree with PPCLI Guy- this is getting tiresome.

NIMN- you have every right to believe what you want to believe about the world- just don't be surprised when you get blowback trying to convince soldiers who have met real evil face to face in many unsavory locations around the world, that they should run away from their sworn duty.   And since you wish to press the point:

And the more we need soldiers, that we recruit in CEGEPS, on reserves, among the poorer classes of people, etc.

This statement implies that this is the sole source of recruits to the CF.  This is demonstrably untrue- the CF is recruited from a wide strata of society, encompassing pretty much every socio-economic group in Canada.  What you meant, however (and are now trying to weasel out of implying now that you have been called on it) is that only the poor, desperate, stupid and indigent (hell- let's throw in Native, too, since you mentioned reserves) would join the CF to fight.

I always held the belief,that armies, all of them, did in fact recruit in marginalised communities and that that, in fact, is a racist and classist dynamic. I'd be interested in knowing how exaclty I'm mistaking here. I actually live by an anti-classist and antiracist code of life, you see, so I'm really interested to know how I'm going wrong here, there is always room for improvement.

Well, you are wrong.  If you had done even basic research, rather than believe everything that your V2007 buddies have been filling your head with, you would know, too.

Edit: removed extra word

 

[Mortar guy]

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I fail to see the insult here.

I also fail to see how my comment is classist or racist. Are you saying that he Army is NOT recruiting among, student, natives and poor communities. Did I make this up?

I always held the belief,that armies, all of them, did in fact recruit in marginalised communities and that that, in fact, is a racist and classist dynamic. I'd be interested in knowing how exaclty I'm mistaking here. I actually live by an anti-classist and antiracist code of life, you see, so I'm really interested to know how I'm going wrong here, there is always room for improvement.

Again, It was not my intention to insult anyone.
But maybe you can indicate to me what is false about this remark, so that I can maybe understand better the dynamics of military recruitment.

Sincerely,

NIMN

Just saw this. This is what I'm talking about. Don't open your grocery hole unless you have a good understanding of the topic at hand! In the end you look like a fool and will just p1ss people off. Your veneer thin knowledge of this topic, no doubt based heavily on stereotypes and third-hand information, is truly incredible. You must have a big brass pair to come on to a site called Army.ca (of all things) and blurt out those pearls.

No, the CF does not actively recruit from poor or underprivileged communities. All Canadians are given an equal opportunity to join and serve. If anything, the CF tends to try to recruit those with degrees and post-secondary diplomas, and people with those tend to come from the middle class.

Keep up the great posts! Very entertaining!

MG

 

[Wookilar]

....deep sigh....

So, let me get this straight.......you (collectively speaking) go to workshops, conferences and hold rallies and demonstrations.

We (again, collectively) hand out aid, help people on the ground, try to spread humane treatment and kill bad guys (you may/may not agree with our methods, that's fine. Sometimes I don't either).

The problem I have I guess is this: I am quite left-wing (so everyone gets an idea, but that truly does not describe my political/social thought processes and how it fits in with our current political system) and I am quite knowledgeable about the activities of many social advocacy groups (inter and intra state; all shapes/sizes/goals) and support those that I can (and feel that deserve it).

Why is that a problem? Well, basically, because groups represented by V2007 and NIMN never really accomplish anything and that really burns me. All that fury, energy and commitment thrown away in spouting rhetoric rehashed from Vietnam War protesters (don't believe me? Dig up some articles. Check on youtube. I'm done doing your research for you).

The repeated asking for your solutions to the situation in Afghanistan is not unreasonable, we are all wondering why you did not have the answer ready BEFORE you got here. You did actually think this through, did you not? Stopping the current plan (that is working, whether you believe it or not) without having another plan to go on is suicide (but, since it's not YOUR suicide, I guess that is ok). Proof that the current course of action is working: soccer, kites and little girls going to school (prove me wrong). You didn't actually think that you could come on here and convert "us" with out having a solid plan (or even a basis of a plan)?

Of course you did! Again and again, we are being told that we are taking things too personal (we don't mean soldiers specifically, we're all zombies). Bull. You did mean us, or you wouldn't have said it in the first place so do not attempt to be cute and self-deprecating in order to save some face. Let's face it, a majority of your groups think we are all overloaded with testosterone and just want to kill something. Very few of you have any actual close contact with CF members (there is obviously some, someone is giving you buzzwords like COIN) and would never willingly sit with one and eat a meal.

I posted a lot of pages ago. I (along with others) pointed out that some of your basic documentation is patently false. We've even seen "the pipeline" resurface. All we are getting in return is more rhetoric about how capitalism is bad, the US are warmongers and we are all puppets (or do you prefer zombies) of the industrial/military complex.

Again, your post "explaining" for our benefit what the symbolism in "Night of the Living Dead" means, shows your true thoughts again. You are here to educate us. Fine, give me some concrete facts (not opinions on political structures) and some workable solutions (in this reality, not the one you are hoping for) and I will learn. When the day comes that ST:NG is the norm for our society, you and I may well sit down and enjoy some fine Romulan Ale, but until then, my buds and I will enjoy a timmies (and maybe a can of pringles from the canex) after a days/nights work (whether that be rebuilding a school, a lumber mill, a brick kiln, digging wells, replacing well pumps, protecting the people that are trying to build them or killing people that are trying to kill us). You just keep holding your counter-protests, causing civil disturbances and endangering lives (attempt to prove me wrong, and I will blind you with photos of molotov-throwing anarchists and peace activists at "protests" around the world). But those are just The Man framing you. Anarchist protests never degenerate into violence.

Wook

edit: for spelling and just to add, your comment on the whole recruiting from the lower classes thing; you said it your self, a belief. Stop watching American war movies.

For the sake of data collection only, I come from a solid middle-class background, had completed secondary education (in a very useful and lucrative sector) and had traveled a good part of the planet before I joined. I left a good management job, almost 15 years ago, so I could make a difference. I know more people in the CF (Reg and Res) that have college diplomas/university degrees than I do civilians that have the same (and my social circle is quite wide).

 

[1feral1]

Quote,
And the more we need soldiers, that we recruit in CEGEPS, on reserves, among the poorer classes of people, etc.

Tread lightly, my friend, especially today. I[ and I'm sure most on here] am not in the mood for insults towards those who put lives on the line so that you have the freedom to insult them.

Well said Bruce!

Cheers,

Wes

 

[cavalryman]

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I fail to see the insult here.

I also fail to see how my comment is classist or racist. Are you saying that he Army is NOT recruiting among, student, natives and poor communities. Did I make this up?

I always held the belief,that armies, all of them, did in fact recruit in marginalised communities and that that, in fact, is a racist and classist dynamic. I'd be interested in knowing how exaclty I'm mistaking here. I actually live by an anti-classist and antiracist code of life, you see, so I'm really interested to know how I'm going wrong here, there is always room for improvement.

Again, It was not my intention to insult anyone.
But maybe you can indicate to me what is false about this remark, so that I can maybe understand better the dynamics of military recruitment.

Sunshine.... are you so naive that you can't see the irony in your statement?  You claim to be an anti-classist, yet you attempt to class military members as coming from marginalized communities.  As you say, you hold a belief - in other words, something not based on fact.

Funny, but when I look at my unit, and at the members heading over with TF 3-07, I don't see anyone from a "marginalized" community.  I'd venture to say that a large chunk of my troops (and all my officers) have at least as much, if not more education than you probably claim to have, and a pretty solid understanding of life.  They're for the most part men and women from a middle-class background who want to do something worthwhile that will really make a difference in the world, i.e. something other than protesting and spouting nonsense.

I wish you luck in your voyage through life.  Maybe some day you'll understand what the fine people here have been trying, with great restraint and politeness to explain to you.  I've always found that personal and intellectual growth happens when one removes the cotton from one's ears and sticks it in one's mouth.

 

[SupersonicMax]

V2007, NIMN, too many words, not enough actions...

 

[kenneyb210]

"This is completely absurd! This is George Bush logic!"

That, to me, is  the shark jump.

I am glad to see that the forum has gotten more to  the point. The CF on one side with their beliefs and the other. No question the anarchists have strong beliefs, they desire change, work to spread their message. blah blah

On the other hand...Quebec City will no doubt be exciting ...are there any other venues in other cities?

In Alberta, I would really like to know if the CF is involved in any "rally round the flag" type events.

 

[Blindspot]

I'd venture to say that a large chunk of my troops (and all my officers) have at least as much, if not more education than you probably claim to have, and a pretty solid understanding of life.  They're for the most part men and women from a middle-class background who want to do something worthwhile that will really make a difference in the world, i.e. something other than protesting and spouting nonsense.

NIMN, I have this one...

You're a zombie. An imperialist, capitalist, democracy-defending, monarchist, machine-loving, camouflage-wearing sucker in the employ of evil plutocrats. Your educations and experience means nothing to us because everything western sucks.

Now where's the hordes of women with unshaved armpits I was promised?

 

[cavalryman]

You're a zombie. An imperialist, capitalist, democracy-defending, monarchist, machine-loving, camouflage-wearing sucker in the employ of evil plutocrats.

Aaaaaand loving it!

*Ugh - I'm all that, and channeling Don Adams  *

 

[Not In My Name]

Sunshine.... are you so naive that you can't see the irony in your statement?  You claim to be an anti-classist, yet you attempt to class military members as coming from marginalized communities.  As you say, you hold a belief - in other words, something not based on fact.

Funny, but when I look at my unit, and at the members heading over with TF 3-07, I don't see anyone from a "marginalized" community.  I'd venture to say that a large chunk of my troops (and all my officers) have at least as much, if not more education than you probably claim to have, and a pretty solid understanding of life.  They're for the most part men and women from a middle-class background who want to do something worthwhile that will really make a difference in the world, i.e. something other than protesting and spouting nonsense.

I wish you luck in your voyage through life.  Maybe some day you'll understand what the fine people here have been trying, with great restraint and politeness to explain to you.  I've always found that personal and intellectual growth happens when one removes the cotton from one's ears and sticks it in one's mouth.

Sunshine!!?? How old do you think I am?

This is very patronizing. I started to write on this forum last night in a spirit of dialogue, but now it seems that anything I might write will be ridiculed, turned on it's head, used against me, etc.

It is obvious that I am not going to change any one's mind here (I didn't think I would from the start) and that was not really the point. Most people here just don't want to hear the arguments we're making. It's all crap to you and that's the end of it; there is absolutely no openness on your part. So much for coming straight to the dragon's Den.

I don't think I was particularly nasty, or belligerent, or insulting at all. Yet you have all chosen 1) to distort pretty much everything I wrote to make me look bad, according to your dearly held values (anything I wrote was bad a priori; even saying that military types are generally conservative was construed as an insult, for God's sake!); 2) ignored all valid points I have made - mainly about you serving first and foremost Western domination of the world (as if Canada was not part of NATO, was not the US' main ally, was not apologising for Israels' crimes, was not a colonial power, etc.) - you could only resort to weak sarcasm about these central arguments - (if you seriously believe that Western privilege is legitimate and has been legitimately acquired, it's worse than I thought, I had assume that some of you would be willing to concede at least as much); and 3) accused me of all sorts of evil that I know have nothing to do with my personality. I guess it's more convenient to demonise your opponent.

Well, I came here hoping for dialogue and was treated like crap, simply because I happen to hold a completely different set of beliefs than most of you.

Now, we will see which way the wind blows in the next weeks and months. I can assure you that your beloved mission will turn sour, one way or another.  Take my word for it, soldiers. That is inevitable. It's beyond me that you can't recognise this.

You're all for democracy, you say, well you'll have to abide by it when the Canadian people want this bullshit war to stop.

Unless, a terrorist attack happens on Canadian territory... wouldn't that be convenient for war profiteers. Or another "terrorist plot" is uncovered. Or anything that can justifying staying in Afghanistan for years to come.

Yet, I can't help but notice that no one really seriously denied or debunked any of my main criticism. Again, just a see of sarcasm. Why? And why are you so hostile? One could interpret this as negative acknowledgement.

A lot of you, most in fact, were busy cornering us on the after-war issue, cause you know full well that it's maybe our only real weak spot. It's nearly impossible to come up with an alternative solution to your military occupation, the disastrous situation YOUR PATRON POLITICIANS AND HAWKISH INTELLECTUALS CREATED FOR THE WORLD.

There you are, if that can flatter you're camouflage-clad egos: you won. You can stay in Afghanistan for 20-30 years, how about that? That's a sustainable approach. It will definitely serve democracy ans insure our security. That's logical. Then, when angry young men come from from Pakistan or Pashtun country to blow stuff in Toronto or Montreal, you can "liberate"  these territories too, bring democracy there, why not. This is manifest destiny.

There are so many places to "liberate" still. The whole world needs the Canadian military to fix it. You guys go on walking the walk!

We've said it before and we will say it again: this is a vicious circle, and you're feeding right into it.

On the other hand, you've been trained to follow orders and shut up. You've been trained to kill too. Unless I'm wrong about this also? You're paid to serve and obey; it might be easier in these conditions to actually believe all the bullshit they feed you. It's understandable, in a way. Again, I'm speaking to all the ones who felt compelled to aggressively blast me here. I do not think that all soldiers are the same.

You may think I'm full of crap, but after today's experience I can honestly say that many of those who assaulted me here fit this unflattering description as well.

I don't think any less of soldiers in general, despite what you might think. Even if I disagree with the deployment of troops to Afghanistan, I hope that you all come back alive and well to your families and friends. To those who think I'm being disingenuous about this, insert favoured profanity here. I care about people, whether this fits your preconceived idea of what an anarchist is, or not. I don't like people dying for oil and/or the variety of false pretexts served daily by politicians.

This being said, I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you here by myself. You can rejoice in your defeating me with your superior intellects and infallible argumentation (many of you seem to have an issue with proving that you are indeed intelligent, what with all the talk of formal education, the obsession with "facts" vs. "opinion", what's with that?). I know that you know these last exchanges here sucked, and they sucked precisely because you consciously disrespected me whereas I was only trying to engage in dialogue. That is the way of the bully.

I, had no intention to offend anyone here. I believe it is my mere presence amongst you that was found to be offensive.

At least I learned one thing: the Canadian military is composed of, intellectualy superior, middle class people with degrees. No underprivileged people has ever been lured in the Canadian Army against the promise of of financial security, no Sir! :-\ This is a myth!
Such despicable tactics could never happen in Canada, the perfect country. (Excuse the sarcasm, it appears to be contagious... time for me to leave here.)

If my comrads feel there is anything to be gained from sticking around here, I will gladly let them do it, and even participate in the dialogue. Me, I'll take a break from this place. It's been an intersting 24 hours though... I hope I have at least got some radical points across to some more open minded people.

I might take a peak here in a few days from now, after the Quebec City encounter.

Again, a heartfelt Godspeed to the troops.

Not in My Name

 

[Trinity]

the obsession with "facts" vs. "opinion", what's with that?). I know that you know these last exchanges here sucked, and they sucked precisely because you consciously disrespected me whereas I was only trying to engage in dialogue. That is the way of the bully.

Funny that how facts get in the way of opinions.  Last time I checked in philosophy and debating,
facts helped prove your arguments.  Funny if we asked for facts, we're like that.

Me, I'll take a break from this place. It's been an intersting 24 hours though...

For both you and us.