PAT in kingston

[BlakPanzer]

Hey guys. I'm a sig op (aciss) in kingston and I must say that I don't quite like the fact that we are waiting so long for our course to begin. I spoke with a few other NCMs and officers and they simply said they are recruiting sigs wy too fast and they don't have enough training openings for us. Lets hope that the wait on pat isn't much longer!!!

 

[PuckChaser]

At least you're not a 291er. Try waiting 2 years for a course. They're posting all of you guys out to units now, so you'll do a little OJT in the short term to keep you occupied.

Your training wait is long because you're joining a trade that's 600 people short and most of the people in it are needed for operations. Maybe we'll post 200 instructors to the school when Afghanistan winds down so we don't inconvenience you.

 

[Sigger]

Are Pte(r)'s getting Jimmies now right out of basic? I say you are not a Sig until you complete trg. But maybe that is just me.

 

[chrisf]

Are Pte(r)'s getting Jimmies now right out of basic?

That is or at least was the policy, I assume it still is.

I have actually seen it in writing at some point, but I can't for the life of me remember where, so I can't offer a reference.

And a Pte (r) who has completed basic is no longer a Pte (r), rather a Pte (b)

 

[PuckChaser]

Are Pte(r)'s getting Jimmies now right out of basic? I say you are not a Sig until you complete trg. But maybe that is just me.

There's no Jimmy capbadges in the system, guys off their QL3s aren't even getting them.

I agree with you, being awarded a capbadge at the completion of QL3 training would add a little bit more pride in the Branch.

 

[chrisf]

To the best of my knowledge, everyone wears (or at least is authorized to wear, shortages aside) their trades cap badge on completion of basic training. We have trade badges to indicate training level.

Of course, you're welcome to your oppinion, but I don't see anything to be gained by with-holding it. If anything, giving it on completion of BMQ starts building identity and brotherhood out of the gate.

At what point would you consider somone to be a "true" sig-op (or any trade for that matter)? If we're going to move the bar up, we might as well set it high... from now on, no one is considered a "true" sig-op without at least 9 operational tours, with no functioning testicles (and/or ovaries) due to RF radiation exposure. As further proof of your loyalty to the branch, prior to receiving a hat badge, "VVV" is branded into your forehead, and you're required to get a large jimmy, surrounded by cadpat, tattoed on your shoulder.

I was going to go somewhere with crafting your own winged sandals, covering your body in gold leaf, and climbing mount olympus, but that seemed excessive.

 

[PuckChaser]

Well why don't we just not give them to Reservists either? They're only 85% part of the C&E Branch, after all.  :

See? We can both make wild assumptions and extrapolations.

I think we've got a big problem with loyalty in the Branch, and we need to start doing something about it. There's a lot of entitlement floating around, and a simple ceremony to present a capbadge at the completion of the QL3 course would go a long way to make members feel like they earned something, instead of a "Certificate of Military Achievement". If there's an Infanteer around they can correct me, but I believe they don't get their Regt badge until they finish Battle school. Yes they're infanteers, but not part of the family until they finish the course.

 

[Swingline1984]

I didn't get mine (cap badge) until I finished my QL3 and all it did was make me feel inferior.  The kids want a cap badge to feel like part of the team?  Give them a damn cap badge, but first, lets show them how to wear it!  I was just recently in Kingston and I've never seen so many dress infractions in a mess hall in my entire career.  A guy could have a full time job there jacking up the PATs and Students.

 

[3VP Highlander]

I agree with the Inf system.  You receive your Regimental hat badge upon graduation from DP 1.  It does not demean anyone and formally welcomes them to the family.

 

[chrisf]

On the other hand, don't infanteers wear the infantry branch hat badge post basic training, and pre-regimental posting?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Engineer officers wear the cornflake until some time during or after DP1.1.

I believe they get theirs during Phase 3.... as for NCM's they get theirs after they pass the Cmdt's inspection while on the QL3 Course.....

 

[PuckChaser]

as for NCM's they get theirs after they pass the Cmdt's inspection while on the QL3 Course.....

I'd agree with something like that as a compromise.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

as for NCM's they get theirs after they pass the Cmdt's inspection while on the QL3 Course.....

I'd agree with something like that as a compromise.

For the Reg Force that would be week 4 onwards IIRC... for the P.RES they get theirs after 2 weeks when they pass the OC's inspection..... (something I don't agree with as they are only qualified the tools package...)

 

[medicineman]

To the best of my knowledge, everyone wears (or at least is authorized to wear, shortages aside) their trades cap badge on completion of basic training. We have trade badges to indicate training level.

There's a problem with that logic, in that only the army has trade badges to indicate training level...if you saw someone with a medical hatbadge, you'd assume they are a medic and expect them to act as one if you called them over to help out with something.  That is the reason we didn't get our hat brass  until AFTER Phase 1 of the QL3...I gather now they hand it out when you get to the school (someone can correct me if I'm wrong).

As for waiting on PAT for awhile, I hope the OP wasn't one of those complaining about the wait to get sworn in and get to Basic...you're in now, you're getting a pay cheque, your time is a little less structured than Recruit School, you'll likely be getting some OJT or hopefully will at least be gainfully employed somewhere.  Yeah, I hear you want to get on training and such, but when the system is congested, you have to wait unfortunately. 

MM

 

[Brother Blue Steel]

There's no Jimmy capbadges in the system, guys off their QL3s aren't even getting them.

I agree with you, being awarded a capbadge at the completion of QL3 training would add a little bit more pride in the Branch.

they give jimmies out like candy here in pet haha.

 

[BlakPanzer]

As soon as we hit kingston after BMQ our instructors literally said, get those lame ass cornflakes off of your heads and get a jimmy sewn onto your beret.... It made a few ppl at SQ jealous as they said they don't get their trade badges until after they are qualified. Some good news came the other day, My ACISS course starts on the 28th on June, so at least it won't be that much longer of a wait.

-------------------------------------------

A salute to the fallen. Lost but never forgotten.

 

[BlakPanzer]

And i must apologize for posting this under the wrong topic... it's my first time using a foru..... :-X :-X :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

[IBM]

Hmm... reading all that makes me wonder if things are done different between Reg F and Res in this case. I remember when I returned from completing SQ, I was given my Jimmy cap badge from the unit CO the same day he was doing a promotion ceremony for others. As far as I know this was always the SOP, the rationale being that I was now ready to "learn on the job" on training evening/weekends before I started QL3/DP1. I don't think anyone was still rocking the cornflake next summer at Kingston.

 

[211RadOp]

IAW Branch Standing Orders, para 5.09

The Regular Force personnel will begin wearing the C&E hat badge upon arrival at their units or CFSCE depending of their entry plan.  The Occupation Transfer (OT) will begin wearing the C&E hat badge upon arrival at CFSCE or their unit depending of the trade they transfer from.  The Reserve Force personnel will begin wearing the C&E hat badge upon successful completion of the BMQ.  Officers will continue to wear the C&E hat badge IAW direction given in A-AD-265-000/AG-001, which is upon being commissioned.

http://commelec.mil.ca/inf/so-op/doc/so-op.doc