Our North - SSE Policy Update Megathread

[Fishbone Jones]

Boy, that swerved totally off topic pretty quick.

 

[Kirkhill]

You mean you can't do a weekend jaunt from Toronto to Vancouver in a rental car?

Ask me about the accountant in Peterborough that wanted me to follow up a $200 dunning letter with a face to face collection call. Apparently Resolute was close enough to Calgary for his purposes.

Now, see, if I'd been a different person I could have added Resolute to my scrap book. I really screwed the pooch on that Samoan opportunity though.

 

[DBNSG]

You mean you can't do a weekend jaunt from Toronto to Vancouver in a rental car?

You can barely do it from North Sydney to Cornerbrook.

 

[Kirkhill]

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2024/10/10/natos_northern_flank_countering_russia_and_china_expansion_in_the_arctic_1064137.html

While the world remains fixated on Russia's war in Ukraine, Moscow is strategically expanding its influence globally. With a firm foothold in the Middle East supporting Iran and sending support to the Houthis, and growing involvement in Central Africa, Russia's next strategic objective appears to be the High North and the Arctic. This ambition, coupled with increasing collusion with China, presents a new and complex dilemma for NATO, forcing the alliance to adapt to evolving threats in a region of increasing geopolitical importance.

Russia’s Arctic Ambitions​

Driven by a desire to control vital transit routes, exploit vast natural resources, and project military power, Moscow's aspirations in the Arctic are multifaceted and alarming. This manifests in several key ways:

Hybrid Threats​

Russia is employing a range of hybrid tactics, including cyberattacks, disinformation campaigns, and the use of proxies to conduct surveillance and sabotage critical infrastructure in the High North.

 

[Loachman]

You mean you can't do a weekend jaunt from Toronto to Vancouver in a rental car?

We used to train Dutch Pilots. We had a bunch on my Primary Flying Course (Beechcraft Mouseketeer) in Portage in January-March 1979. Dutch guys always bought the biggest cars available. One could always identify a Dutchmobile as it floated down the highway, especially from behind, not only by its huge size, but also by the six visible heads.

One of the other fellows noticed a few of them poring over a whole-of-Canada road map in the student lounge one day early in the course, while discussing their planned weekend (a regular weekend, not a long weekend) road trip.

"Where are you guys going?"

"Montreal."

"Do you know how far that is?"

"Yes. It's this (finger indication) far on the map."

"Do you realize that that is about the same distance between Amsterdam and Moscow?"

 

[dapaterson]

"Do you know how far that is?"

"Yes. It's this (finger indication) far on the map."

"Do you realize that that is about the same distance between Amsterdam and Moscow?"

"Can we borrow a Leopard instead?"

Oh, sorry, that's the German students.

 

[lenaitch]

We used to train Dutch Pilots. We had a bunch on my Primary Flying Course (Beechcraft Mouseketeer) in Portage in January-March 1979. Dutch guys always bought the biggest cars available. One could always identify a Dutchmobile as it floated down the highway, especially from behind, not only by its huge size, but also by the six visible heads.

One of the other fellows noticed a few of them poring over a whole-of-Canada road map in the student lounge one day early in the course, while discussing their planned weekend (a regular weekend, not a long weekend) road trip.

"Where are you guys going?"

"Montreal."

"Do you know how far that is?"

"Yes. It's this (finger indication) far on the map."

"Do you realize that that is about the same distance between Amsterdam and Moscow?"

Nobody ever looks at the map scale. Same with the Ontario road map. Southern Ontario on one side and the north on the other - but the scale is different.

 

[Loachman]

To them, "scale" is depicted by how close towns are together on the map.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

We used to train Dutch Pilots. We had a bunch on my Primary Flying Course (Beechcraft Mouseketeer) in Portage in January-March 1979. Dutch guys always bought the biggest cars available. One could always identify a Dutchmobile as it floated down the highway, especially from behind, not only by its huge size, but also by the six visible heads.

One of the other fellows noticed a few of them poring over a whole-of-Canada road map in the student lounge one day early in the course, while discussing their planned weekend (a regular weekend, not a long weekend) road trip.

"Where are you guys going?"

"Montreal."

"Do you know how far that is?"

"Yes. It's this (finger indication) far on the map."

"Do you realize that that is about the same distance between Amsterdam and Moscow?"

In a related vein, I remember talking to a Brit soldier in CFB Suffield once who mentioned that it took longer for them to fly from Gander to Calgary then it did to fly across the Atlantic.

 

[Kirkhill]

In a related vein, I remember talking to a Brit soldier in CFB Suffield once who mentioned that it took longer for them to fly from Gander to Calgary then it did to fly across the Atlantic.

Which is one reason I keep harping on about Nordkapp, Spitzbergen, Thule and Alert.

They are a lot closer to each other than Trenton is to anywhere.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Which is one reason I keep harping on about Nordkapp, Spitzbergen, Thule and Alert.

They are a lot closer to each other than Trenton is to anywhere.

I've often thought Trenton existed in its own pocket universe.

 

[Loachman]

Which is one reason I keep harping on about Nordkapp, Spitzbergen, Thule and Alert.

They are a lot closer to each other than Trenton is to anywhere.

An Englishman was sending his young daughter to stay with his brother in Vancouver for a couple of weeks.

He was less than pleased with the cost of the flight, so booked her to Toronto, then telephoned his brother and asked him to pick her up there.

The brother responded, "Why don't you pick her up? You're closer."

 

[KevinB]

An Englishman was sending his young daughter to stay with his brother in Vancouver for a couple of weeks.

He was less than pleased with the cost of the flight, so booked her to Toronto, then telephoned his brother and asked him to pick her up there.

The brother responded, "Why don't you pick her up? You're closer."

Admittedly England isn’t as small as it seems either.
I was flying back to England, and couldn’t get a flight to where I wanted to go. Turned out flying into Manchester as oppose to London added a 6hr taxi trip.
-

 

[Furniture]

Which is one reason I keep harping on about Nordkapp, Spitzbergen, Thule and Alert.

They are a lot closer to each other than Trenton is to anywhere.

Except all of those places are also at the end of a very long logistics tail, so supporting Alert out of Thule, Spitzbergen, etc., isn't really saving anything.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Admittedly England isn’t as small as it seems either.
I was flying back to England, and couldn’t get a flight to where I wanted to go. Turned out flying into Manchester as oppose to London added a 6hr taxi trip.
-

You don't trust the trains?

 

[Kirkhill]

Except all of those places are also at the end of a very long logistics tail, so supporting Alert out of Thule, Spitzbergen, etc., isn't really saving anything.

Except there are people living up there with well stocked larders preparing to fight up there.

And for much of the year they are connected by ice...that will support snow machines, FARPs and helicopters.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Except there are people living up there with well stocked larders preparing to fight up there.

And for much of the year they are connected by ice...that will support snow machines, FARPs and helicopters.

So the Russians are coming over the Arctic Ocean to invade on snow machines and helicopters?

 

[Furniture]

Except there are people living up there with well stocked larders preparing to fight up there.

And for much of the year they are connected by ice...that will support snow machines, FARPs and helicopters.

Except the people up there aren't any of those things. They are clinging to the edge of the world, just like our northern outposts.

Have you ever been up to any of the places you're referencing, or have you just read the shiny brochures? Thule is a big base for the arctic, but it's at the end of a very long supply chain, and isn't able to support other sites except with a massive surge from down south. I suspect the same is true of the other sites you mention.

Iqaluit is at the end of a very long and thin supply chain. Thule and Alert are another few hours by C-130 north of that.

 

[dimsum]

Pedantic PSA: Thule Airbase is now called Pituffik Space Base

Pituffik SB, Greenland

 

[KevinB]

So the Russians are coming over the Arctic Ocean to invade on snow machines and helicopters?

I don’t think that is what he is insinuating. The point is that having a well established population in a location a lot more than not having anything.

Furthermore given Russias history with little green men, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that in 10-20 years they may consider starting that sort of business in Canada’s north - just by dribs and drabs, or even the Chinese. Even if it is just squatting to start by fishermen and ‘subsistence farming’