Ontario Now a 'Have-Not' Province

[Kat Stevens]

$27.10 won't buy you spit. And IMHO, we're getting less back than we (Ontario residents) give the Feds anyway, so none of you really have to worry about giving up your hard earned cash to us. We've been through massive downturns here before and have always come back. I don't see any indication that this time will be any different.

Okey-doke, glad that's cleared up, feel better now?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Okey-doke, glad that's cleared up, feel better now?

None of it was really for you Kat. More the spiteful kiddies. :-*

 

[retiredgrunt45]

Like it or not. we're all in this together. The tone here seems to be we live in different countries, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec are not countries, but we already know that, so why do we go on making the case that they are. What affects one affects everyone, its called the country Canada, not the countries Alberta, Ontario or Quebec.

If you want to find out why the manufacturing giants ended up in Ontario, ask Ford , GM or Inco, ask them. They setup shop here before many of us we're even twinkles in our fathers eyes or many of us were still attached to our mothers apron strings, so please get of the I hate what ever province routine, give it a rest, because that era has gone the way of the dinosaurs. What we have to look at now is what's good for Canada as a whole, not just a few specific postal codes.

Alberta is doing very well, GREAT!! We should all be proud that she is doing so well, because it makes our country richer in terms of national pride to have so much of what the world wants and needs in this great country.

Ontario is now a have not province, this should affect all of us, when a sister is down, do we step on her or do we help her to her feet.

Newfoundland was once a have not province, LOOK AT HER GO NOW!!

We should all be proud of our country as a whole and not just one part of her just because we happen to reside there. That's not to say we can't be proud of our province, because we should be, but CANADA should always come first. It's called national pride! You passport doesn't say country of origin "Alberta or Ontario" It Say's (CANADA) and she's a wonderfull lady!!

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Ontario is now a have not province, this should affect all of us, when a sister is down, do we step on her or do we help her to her feet.

Newfoundland was once a have not province, LOOK AT HER GO NOW!!

Wonder when people will start campaining for

 

[a_majoor]

This deep seated regionalism has been fostered over many decades by politicians looking for a "divide and conquer" strategy. Even the "Green Shift" tax plan was a very unsubtle way of punishing the west (not a voter rich region for Liberals) by transferring their resource wealth to the vote rich regions of Ontario and Quebec. Understood that way, I imagine many people in the Liberal Party hierarchy thought it was a great vote buying scheme, and probably felt hurt and betrayed when it fell flat in Ontario and Quebec. Equalization payments are another divide and conquer tactic, BTW

Adding to our difficulties is the rejection by our "elites" of any sort of overriding "Civic Nationalism" for Canada, rather a vague sense of entitlement and PC group identities and identity politics is the national norm; also encouraged by schools, the MSM and any other position of power. Defining Canada by "Health Care"? Give me a break!

If Canadians were more like Americans (heretical thought), then there would be a clear national identity that binds everyone together, and rather than celebrating or decrying Ontario's self inflicted wounds, we would be wondering at Canada's misfortunes. I also suspect if we were more like Americans we would also be motivated to take action to change things to improve the economy rather than asking for handouts.

 

[Danjanou]

We can all go to Alberta and BC and go on the dole. "Goin Down the Road" anyone? 

or "going up the road" and get one of them high paying jobs in Hibernia or Sable Island.

 

[RangerRay]

I've never been a big fan of equalization even when we in BC were on the receiving end due to NDP mismanagement in the 1990's.  It penalises prudent management and rewards mismanagement.  We were so embarrassed of our new found status, we turfed the Dippers out.

 

[a_majoor]

Mike Harris on becoming a "Have Not" province:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/11/20/mike-harris-ontario-liberals-have-spent-the-province-into-have-not-status.aspx

Mike Harris: Ontario Liberals have spent the province into have-not status
Posted: November 20, 2008, 8:00 AM by Kelly McParland
Full Comment

I know it is unusual for a former premier to comment on current events, but given the fiscal and economic crisis facing Ontario and Canada, and the tragic news that Ontario is now a “have-not” province, I want to add my voice to those calling for bold thinking and far-reaching new ways of looking at our economic problems. 

When I left office in 2002, I left with the satisfaction that, while there was still more to do, Ontario was fundamentally back on track. Our government, first elected in 1995, brought Ontario back as the engine of the Canadian economy after 10 lost years of mismanagement and overspending by previous Liberal and NDP governments.

We cut personal, capital, corporate and other taxes almost 200 times, dramatically reduced the size of government, forced the broader public sector to become much more efficient and eliminated Ontario’s massive deficit. We scrapped Bob Rae’s job-killing labour law and gave people a hand-up, not a hand-out, by creating work-for-welfare. In doing so, we created an environment that led to unprecedented economic growth, the creation of almost a million new jobs and 700,000 fewer people trapped in the cycle of welfare dependency. In 2002, our economy was booming and we had a budget surplus. Ontario was the envy of the world and the foundation was in place to ensure our province’s future prosperity. As I said in one of my last speeches as premier, I only regret that we didn’t move faster, and push even harder, to make the changes we did.

Since then, the government of Ontario has slid back into its self-destructive old habits.  Massive increases in public spending and the return of high taxes are dragging Ontario down and risking the economic future of our province. Ottawa’s recent declaration of our “have-not” status is the culmination of a five-year decline. This announcement proves that Ontario isn’t just on the edge of a fiscal and economic crisis — we’ve toppled over a cliff, and no one really knows how far down we might fall.

It is true that high energy prices and their impact on the economies of Western Canada and Newfoundland have affected the threshold used to determine “have” and “have-not” status.  But this is only part of the story.

The main reason for Ontario’s unprecedented “have-not” status is that economic growth in this province is weak, and is falling further and further behind the rest of the country. This decline did not have to happen. Going from first to worst in economic growth was preventable. 

A major reason for our faltering economic growth is that Ontario’s manufacturing sector is being hammered by high taxes. For far too long, Ontario has relied on a weak Canadian dollar to provide manufacturers with a “competitive” advantage. Now, energy and resource prices are driving up the value of our dollar and the U.S. economy is slowing. The so-called “dollar advantage” has been revealed as an illusion, and high taxes are now exposed as the millstone around the neck of our manufacturing sector. 

The Ontario government’s own Task Force on Competitiveness, Productivity and Economic Progress provides powerful evidence of Ontario’s high taxes. Its 2007 report shows that Ontario has the highest taxation on new business investment in Canada. Even more compelling, it also reports that Ontario has the second-highest taxes on new business investment in the developed world.

To make matters worse, Ontario also has one of the highest personal income tax rates in the country, creating a major disincentive for talented people to settle, stay or remain here. This further weakens our economic and competitive position.

During a time of escalating international competition, a massive credit crunch and a probable recession, the Ontario government should be moving aggressively to reduce taxes and other barriers to growth. Failure to act will strangle the life out of Ontario’s manufacturers, and drive them from this province, killing, maybe forever, the jobs they provide. The government must take action before it is too late. 

To compound the high tax problem, since its election in 2003, the current Liberal government has gone on a spectacular spending spree that now threatens the future financial health of this province. 

Following the failed paths of the David Peterson and Bob Rae regimes, over the last five years the provincial government has increased spending by an average of 8% each year. During this same period, the Ontario economy grew in nominal terms by 4% annually. This means that the Ontario government is actually spending twice as much as it can afford. It has created a spending machine, and this machine can only be fuelled by red-hot economic times. This is simply not sustainable.

Had the government been living within its means for the past five years, Ontario would be in a much stronger position to respond to the wider global emergency than it is today. Instead, faced with a global liquidity crisis, a recession and plummeting revenues, the government is now looking at the very real prospect of returning to the massive, long-term structural deficits that we worked so hard to eliminate, and/or returning to massive cuts in government spending on public services. What a wasted opportunity.

Now more than ever before, Ontario needs strong leadership and fresh thinking to set things right. We need a major course correction and we can’t afford to wait a moment longer. The elites and their status quo way of thinking are already closing ranks. Without powerful action to reverse our economic and competitive decline, we are jeopardizing not just Ontario’s future but perhaps the future of the entire country.

National Post

•  Mike Harris was premier of Ontario from 1995-2002. 

National Post

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Mike Harris's stupid ideas are still costing the Govt. of Ontario a fortune even today........super prisons so we spend needless MILLIONS shipping inmates all over the province just for court dates,.....all that nice revenue that the 407 collects for it's Spanish owner would sure look nice in the Govt. coffers right now.
All so this lunkhead, and his gang that couldn't shoot straight, could make it look like they balanced the budget. Just be thankful he wasn't in one more year or all that revenue that the LCBO collects would also be long sold off as that was going to "balance" : the next years budget.

If there is one person who has no right to talk to the Govt about finances that person is Mike Harris, unless its too apologize.

 

[a_majoor]

Actually the one person who should be apologizing is here, we might decry millions of extra expenses, but how about billions of dollars in unproductive and inappropriate spending:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/11/19/rae-poll.html

Rae has said that he — along with most other political leaders in the country at the time — misjudged the depth and length of the recession that hit Canada in the early 1990s. He has also pointed out that the federal and other provincial governments ran up big deficits as the recession dragged on.

Ontario had racked up a small deficit of $700 million by the time Rae took office in late 1990. That soared to $9 billion in Rae's first budget as he opted to increase social spending in a bid to create jobs and soften the impact of the recession.

In subsequent years, Rae tried to rein in ballooning deficits by imposing a wage freeze on teachers, doctors, nurses and civil servants, and by forcing them to take 10 days off each year without pay, which became known derisively as "Rae days."

The change of heart led to labour upheaval and cost him the NDP's traditional support among public sector unions.

Rae's government was trounced in 1995.
[/qote]

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I miss Rae Days.......working at time and a half instead of time on my own shift,.....life was good. ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I miss Rae Days.......working at time and a half instead of time on my own shift,.....life was good. ;D

Yup, and essential services were the only one in the province that profited from the gross mismanagement of the socialist welfare system. Them and the no good lay abouts welfare bums that just took the wages of hard working Ontarians without giving back to the system. Make no mistake, Rae has changed parties, but not ideology or direction.

I still say he's the best to succeed Dion and wipe the liebrals from the face of the nation once and for all.

 

[Love793]

Hopefully he takes his former party with them.