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Ontario Now a 'Have-Not' Province

Bruce Monkhouse

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I wonder if this is just part of the global crisis or bad management?


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081103/Flaherty_ministers_081103/20081103?hub=TopStories

Historic first: Ontario in, N.L. out of equalization
Updated Mon. Nov. 3 2008 9:10 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Ontario, long considered the economic engine of Canada, will receive a federal equalization payment for the first time in its history. But Newfoundland and Labrador no longer needs the money, prompting Premier Danny Williams to say the "Newfie joke" is over.
Federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty confirmed Monday that Ontario would receive about $347 million. The grants are usually reserved for "have not" provinces.

"Does it worry me? Yes of course it worries me," Flaherty told reporters at a news conference Monday afternoon. "The reality is, Ontario is entitled to enter the program and will be receiving substantial funds. Regrettably I think Ontario will be in the equalization program for some time to come."
Meanwhile, Newfound and Labrador, riding high on its offshore oil operation Hibernia, has now become a "have" province.
"This is a very proud day for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians," Williams said at a press conference.

"I don't think the Newfie joke is there anymore. I think we're now an example to our fellow Canadians of how it can be done and how to work your way through hardship."
Twenty years ago, when Newfound first announced its plans for Hibernia, then-premier Brian Peckford said: "One day the sun will shine and have-not will be no more."
Ontario, in recent years, has had a difficult time with its manufacturing industry because of the rising value of the Canadian dollar. Several auto manufacturing plants have closed in the past few years.

"It's an odd feeling to see Ontario in such difficult straits," Flaherty said. "We have to work together to try and build a stimulus in the economy."
The province was actually eligible for equalization payments in the 1970s but never received the funding. The program is designed so that richer provinces can help poorer provinces by providing them with the financial support they need to keep providing services.

The equalization payments will begin in January. Other provinces receiving payments are:

Quebec - $8.35 billion
Manitoba - $2.1 billion
New Brunswick - $1.69 billion
Nova Scotia - $1.57 billion
P.E.I. - $340 million
Flaherty spoke with reporters after meeting with his provincial counterparts in the morning to discuss the gloomy economic forecast and future plans for the equalization program.
The minister said Ottawa could not sustain the program's 15 per cent a year growth rate. He said the $13.6 billion equalization program will continue to grow but that costs would have to be capped to prevent bankrupting the system.

"I don't think Canadians will have any difficulty in saything that's the responsible thing to do," he said.
Flaherty said changes to the program have allowed the government to give Ontario about $100 million more than what it would have previously been able to give the province.
Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan said after the minister's meeting that he doesn't expect Ontario will be receiving the payments for very long.

"It was not unexpected and we'll continue to make the investments we're making," he told reporters.
Duncan said the money will help the province but that Ottawa needs to do more.
"Every bit helps," he said about the payment. "I would have preferred to see a government that's dealing with the automotive sector the way the European Union is, the way the United States is, with a $25 billion investment in the energy fund to help get the product mandate. There was nothing on that."

Duncan said the province would respond to the equalization program in greater detail in the future after officials have had a chance to go over the changes thoroughly.
"It would have been helpful for us to look at this before the meeting," he said. "It looks to us at the first glance that we won't qualify for very long based on the constraints they've put on it."
A report by TD Economics released last April predicted that Ontario would qualify for about $400 million in 2010-2011 and $1.3 billion the next year.

Heading into the meeting Monday, Duncan said Ottawa also needs to address health care transfers and fair treatment in employment insurance.
Meanwhile, oil-rich Alberta, which many view as being immune to the global economic crisis, will push for a co-ordinated assistance plan for the provinces, investors and manufacturers.
"Alberta's message today is that the volatility of the energy market, coupled with the downturn in the economy, is having a serious and profound impact on investors, on government and we have to do something to collectively benefit everybody in Canada," Alberta Finance Minister Iris Evans told Canada AM.

Quebec Finance Minister, Monique Jerome-Forget, said she has already told Flaherty that "given the current situation, we cannot cast aside our responsibilities at either the provincial or federal level."
"We have to be very pro-active as governments. I believe very, very, strongly that the situation now requires very active measures to counter the important slowdown, especially in terms of exports to the U.S."

Monday's meeting is being held ahead of a First Minister's meeting on the economy, to be hosted by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, in Ottawa next week.
Following that is U.S. President George Bush's summit of finance ministers from the top 20 economies, including Canada, to discuss the ongoing global financial crisis.

With files from The Canadian Press

 
I am really begining to hate "Oil Rich Alberta" statements.

I am an Albertan born and raised here.  This was where my family immigrated to in the early 1900's.  We scraped a living from the soil first as farmers, the grew up to be ranchers, then the trades broke and we we're building cities and schools and hospitals and yes we eventually worked in the oilfield.  We worked hard for where we got to and we are not "rich" by any standard.  My Parents at the age of 55 bought their first home.  We went through the Energy crisis where we all had to work just to pay rent and put food on the table.  Ontario did not go what we in the west did in the 80's

Oh how the mighty have fallen.  Its kinda nice in a vindictive way to see that Ontario has to put it hand out for a change.  Over population, mis-management, and a rising dollar led to their downfall.  I will say this about Kline here in AB, He did what we asked, we wanted more this more that, he gave it to us, he also cut payments to other programming to do so, and when we whined... he told us you said this was what you wanted so that it what I did.  If more Provincial Leaders taught their constituents like Ralph did ( as a parent to a greedy child) that if you want something new you have to give something up maybe it would give the constituents somethink to think over, but then again maybe not

The Government is corrupt because we are corrupt we want to see high gains and no risk.  That is not realistic in everyday life why should it be realistic in running a city province or country.  We do nee a balance across the board which we do not which also explain the low number of voters in AB... Most of us have given up as per capita if BC, AB, SASK and MAN all voted for one guy and Ont and Queb vote for someone else... we'd still lose.  So we still have a west vs East mentality that I think needs to be broken down.

Sorry for the ramble and the rant
 
Twenty years ago, when Newfound first announced its plans for Hibernia

I think someone just thought we lost our land, but are still Newly Found ;)


-Beaver
 
Siovan said:
I am really begining to hate "Oil Rich Alberta" statements.

I am an Albertan born and raised here.  This was where my family immigrated to in the early 1900's.  We scraped a living from the soil first as farmers, the grew up to be ranchers, then the trades broke and we we're building cities and schools and hospitals and yes we eventually worked in the oilfield.  We worked hard for where we got to and we are not "rich" by any standard.  My Parents at the age of 55 bought their first home.  We went through the Energy crisis where we all had to work just to pay rent and put food on the table.  Ontario did not go what we in the west did in the 80's

Oh how the mighty have fallen.  Its kinda nice in a vindictive way to see that Ontario has to put it hand out for a change.  Over population, mis-management, and a rising dollar led to their downfall.  I will say this about Kline here in AB, He did what we asked, we wanted more this more that, he gave it to us, he also cut payments to other programming to do so, and when we whined... he told us you said this was what you wanted so that it what I did.  If more Provincial Leaders taught their constituents like Ralph did ( as a parent to a greedy child) that if you want something new you have to give something up maybe it would give the constituents somethink to think over, but then again maybe not

The Government is corrupt because we are corrupt we want to see high gains and no risk.  That is not realistic in everyday life why should it be realistic in running a city province or country.  We do nee a balance across the board which we do not which also explain the low number of voters in AB... Most of us have given up as per capita if BC, AB, SASK and MAN all voted for one guy and Ont and Queb vote for someone else... we'd still lose.  So we still have a west vs East mentality that I think needs to be broken down.

Sorry for the ramble and the rant


Don't remember "Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" eh?  Let me tell ya sunshine, working people are the same whatever part of the country you're from. My dad raised eight kids working as a mechanic and didn't pay off his house until we were all out. You don't have a lock on salt of the eath work ethic just cause you're from out west. Put the blame where it belongs. On Kline and the rest of his political brothers and sisters from ALL across the country. Save the righteous indignation for someone that will believe your drivel.
 
Sure, I'm willing to blame Kline for the condition it's in now.  The nerve of that bastard to take the battered ruin that was Alberta after the NEP into what it is today.  What a prick.
 
recceguy said:
Put the blame where it belongs. On Kline and the rest of his political brothers and sisters from ALL across the country. Save the righteous indignation for someone that will believe your drivel.

Kat, I think you may have missed the highlighted part.
 
You don't have a lock on salt of the eath work ethic just cause you're from out west

Fat lot of good your work ethic does when your unions insist on getting blood from a stone from a troubled auto sector while your electorate guarantees you'll have fiscal mismanagement and corruption by voting for socialists every chance they get.

Equalization has become little more that a political patronage fund and it's high time it's gone.  I'm not confident this will happen, but just be glad we didn't participate in the Kyoto program or there would be no money for anyone.

 
I can imagine a newly protectionist Obama administration and Democratic congress will sieze on equalization payments as a means to further attack Ontario's manufacturing sector. Gotta "protect" those American union jobs (and Democratic voters).

Of course the Provincial government is already creating a greater self inflicted wound by running a deficit. Ask anyone who was in Ontario under Premier Bob Rae to explain how well "spending our way out of a recession" worked.....
 
Everyone can blame me for Ontario's ruin.  When did Rae get elected?  1992?  Guess when I moved there.  Now I'm posted there (a year ago), and now it's a have not province.  Oh, and when I personally deploy, the Canadian dollar goes into spasms.  Yes, blame me!  :(
 
So why exactly does Quebec get more than the rest of the country combined?  I think we're beating on each other while they get to dodge out the back with the prize.

Quebec - $8.35 billion
Manitoba - $2.1 billion
New Brunswick - $1.69 billion
Nova Scotia - $1.57 billion
P.E.I. - $340 million
Ontario - $347 million
 
Thucydides said:
I can imagine a newly protectionist Obama administration and Democratic congress will sieze on equalization payments as a means to further attack Ontario's manufacturing sector. Gotta "protect" those American union jobs (and Democratic voters).

Of course the Provincial government is already creating a greater self inflicted wound by running a deficit. Ask anyone who was in Ontario under Premier Bob Rae to explain how well "spending our way out of a recession" worked.....

Add in the fact the he and the Dems want to shut off the flow of Tar Sands oil and the whole question of Equalization may become moot as Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC follow Ontario into the Black Hole.

Of course, maybe Obama wont object too loudly if we build the Prince Rupert pipeline and some Albertan refineries and start shipping Oil to China.  It would even out our balance of trade with them.  And apparently Obama's America doesn't need our oil.
 
Osotogari said:
Fat lot of good your work ethic does when your unions insist on getting blood from a stone from a troubled auto sector while your electorate guarantees you'll have fiscal mismanagement and corruption by voting for socialists every chance they get.

Equalization has become little more that a political patronage fund and it's high time it's gone.  I'm not confident this will happen, but just be glad we didn't participate in the Kyoto program or there would be no money for anyone.

As per my above, Ontario doesn't have a lock on misguided unions. Those you'll also find in every province of the country, along with the villiage idiots and morons that each province holds quota to..

But while I'm here. All you holier than thou, pompous prigs that are looking down your noses and sqealing in delight at the plight of Ontario, would do well to ponder for a moment that not everyone here is a socialist bastard that voted in the McGuinty government. A large part of the blame comes from the 905 & 416 belt around Moronto, but not all of them voted for the liebrals & dippers either. MOST in Ontario are decent, hard working folk that you'd never notice working next to you anywhere else in the country. So quit lumping the province as a whole (hole?). If you've got a specific beef with the government, unions or otherwise, be specific and quit slagging people just because they live in a certain region.
 
Harris said:
So why exactly does Quebec get more than the rest of the country combined?  I think we're beating on each other while they get to dodge out the back with the prize.

Quebec - $8.35 billion
Manitoba - $2.1 billion
New Brunswick - $1.69 billion
Nova Scotia - $1.57 billion
P.E.I. - $340 million
Ontario - $347 million


These data look a bit different when you run the numbers on a per capita basis. Then we see (using Harris’ numbers):

PEI =                  $2,453.10 per person
New Brunswick =  $2,253.93  “
Manitoba =          $1769.61    “
Nova Scotia =      $1,680.76  “
Québec =            $1,084.30  “
Ontario =            $    27.10  “

 
To be honest, after all the whining Dalton and his merry men made about equalization payments being 'unfair' and that Ontario was 'too generous'...all I can really say is HA HA. It's almost a perverse kind of satisfaction I'm feeling right now, seeing the Ontario government and unions wallow in their own inefficiency and arrogance.
 
To be fair, recceguy, it gives me no pleasure to see any part of this country on it's ass, I swore once to defend all of it, not just the part I live in.  I will point out however that back in the 70s and 80s when the auto industry was rockin' , Hamilton steel mills were rollin', INCO ruled the world, and there was very little chance of extracting the tar sands oil, the West was treated as the red headed step child by a fair percentage of those in Ontario.  I guess they can now take comfort in the fact that they still control the political climate of the country by virtue of sheer numbers.  I'm not looking for a "my Province can buy out your Province" thing here.
 
Kat Stevens said:
I'm not looking for a "my Province can buy out your Province" thing here.

$27.10 won't buy you spit. And IMHO, we're getting less back than we (Ontario residents) give the Feds anyway, so none of you really have to worry about giving up your hard earned cash to us. We've been through massive downturns here before and have always come back. I don't see any indication that this time will be any different.
 
recceguy said:
$27.10 won't buy you spit. And IMHO, we're getting less back than we (Ontario residents) give the Feds anyway, so none of you really have to worry about giving up your hard earned cash to us. We've been through massive downturns here before and have always come back. I don't see any indication that this time will be any different.

1. Look at Queens Park  :rage:

2. Look South  :eek:

3. Look out!
 
Thucydides said:
1. Look at Queens Park  :rage:

2. Look South  :eek:

3. Look out!

We can all go to Alberta and BC and go on the dole. "Goin Down the Road" anyone?  :D
 
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