North Korea (Superthread)

[CougarKing]

link

US and South Korean special forces have been parachuting into North Korea to gather intelligence about underground military installations, a US officer has said in comments carried in US media.

Army Brigadier General Neil Tolley, commander of US special forces in South Korea, told a conference held in Florida last week that Pyongyang had built thousands of tunnels since the Korean war, The Diplomat reported.

"The entire tunnel infrastructure is hidden from our satellites," Tolley said, according to The Diplomat, a current affairs magazine. "So we send (South Korean) soldiers and US soldiers to the North to do special reconnaissance."

"After 50 years, we still don't know much about the capability and full extent" of the underground facilities," he said, in comments reported by the National Defense Industrial Association's magazine on its website.

Tolley said the commandos were sent in with minimal equipment to facilitate their movements and minimize the risk of detection by North Korean forces.

At least four of the tunnels built by Pyongyang go under the Demilitarized Zone separating North and South Korea, Tolley said.

"We don't know how many we don't know about," he admitted.

Among the facilities identified are 20 air fields that are partially underground, and thousands of artillery positions.

In February, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported that had built at least two new tunnels at a nuclear testing site, likely in preparation for a new test.

 

[tomahawk6]

The official word is that BG Tolley was taken out of context.
General officer's have to clear any prepared address. My feeling is that Tolley's comments were intended to send a message to the North. If I am correct they will be tightening up rear area security. ;D

 

[Danjanou]

Option 1 - True
Option 2 - Psyops
Option 3 - Steve McGarrett

I'm going with Number 3 Alex especially with Jimmy Buffet as the chopper driver. 8)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2097513/fullcredits#cast

 

[The Bread Guy]

Official response....

.... A spokesman for US forces in South Korea has dismissed the media report.

"Some reporting has taken great liberal licence with his comments and taken him completely out of context," Colonel Jonathan Withington, of the public affairs office of US Forces Korea, said in a statement.

"No US or ROK (Republic of Korea) forces have parachuted into North Korea," he said. "Though special reconnaissance is a core special operations force mission, at no time have SOF forces been sent to the north to conduct special reconnaissance.

"The use of tunnels in North Korea is well documented," he added. "Several of the known tunnels along the DMZ are visited by tourists every day."

The Telegraph, 29 May 12

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The US should form a Combat TBM company, buy some older tunnel boring machines, do some demo's for the ROK public and occasional let one of the soldiers get drunk with some ladies of illrepute who can tell them how hard it is working underground in tunnels 20km long.....

 

[The Bread Guy]

The commander of U.S. Special Forces in South Korea has been replaced, reportedly for saying U.S. and South Korean troops were parachuting into North Korea to spy.

The statement reported by a Japanese magazine was denied Tuesday by U.S. and South Korean officials.

The Pentagon stated in a press release last week that Brig. Gen. Neil H. Tolley was being replaced by Brig. Gen. Eric P. Wendt, deputy commander of coalition forces in Afghanistan. A U.S. military spokesman in Seoul said Tuesday Tolley's departure was a routine job rotation and had "nothing to do with" the media report ....

United Press International, 5 Jun 12

 

[Retired AF Guy]

From the In from the Cold website more information on Tolley's replacement:

Tuesday, June 05, 2012
Loose Lips Sink (Some) Ships

Coming soon to a basement office at Fort Belvoir?  Brigadier General Neil Tolley has been replaced as commander of U.S. special ops forces in South Korea, after claiming that allied SOF teams have conducted missions in North Korea in the past (U.S. Army photo via CBS News)

Don't look for Army Brigadier General Neil Tolley on the two-star list anytime soon. 

General Tolley, the former commander of U.S. Special Forces in South Korea, has been replaced in that post, just weeks after he publicly stated that American and ROK SOF forces have periodically entered North Korea on spy missions.

Tolley made the claim at a conference in Florida last month.  Later, both the general and military public affairs officers tried to walk back his remarks, stating that "no" special operations forces have been sent into the DPRK.

General Tolley had served as the Army's highest-ranking SF officer in South Korea since October 2010.  Army officials described his departure as a "routine" personnel change, but Tolley was supposed to serve a two-year tour.  His early departure--coupled with the claim about SOF missions in North Korea--was probably enough to end Tolley's Army career.  Readers will note that the Army announcement did not disclose Tolley's new assignment, a sure sign he's being dispatched to a "special assistant" backwater job, where he will bide his time until retirement.

And it's hard to disagree with the Army's decision.  Cross-border operations in Korea are an extraordinarily sensitive topic, since they represent a violation of the 1953 cease-fire that ended the Korean War.  Officially, the U.S. and South Korea don't send SOF teams north, although there have been rumors about such operations for years.  By denying that such missions take place, Washington and Seoul can score propaganda points when North Korean teams are captured in the south.

Additionally, the DPRK represents a very difficult target for any infiltration team.  Americans don't exactly blend in well with the local populace, and even ROK SOF teams are a difficult fit, because the typical South Korean is noticeably taller and better nourished than a DPRK soldier or civilian.  North Koreans are not allowed to travel freely in their country, but they are required to report any suspicious activity.  Members of the DPRK's large special ops command also practice counter-SOF missions on a regular basis, increasing the difficulty of getting a SOF team into (and out of) North Korea.

That's not to say it hasn't been done.  Indeed, General Tolley isn't a man given to idle boasts, and during his original remarks, he talked about North Korea's vast network of tunnels and other underground facilities (UGFs).  Some of his comments seemed to be based on ground observations that were carried out by allied special forces teams. With that information, it will be easier for Pyongyang to determine how allied SOF elements got into their country and egress routes used for escape.  Put another way: it just became much more difficult to mount such operations in the future.

But their is a touch of hypocrisy in the sacking of Neil Tolley.  For openly discussing covert missions and capabilities, General Tolley's career is (likely) at an end.  Meanwhile, senior members of the Obama Administration share all sorts of details about the SEAL raid that killed Osama bin Laden, and none have been dismissed from their posts.  Go figure.

In fact, it looks like the administration will discuss almost anything classified--as long as it can assist in Mr. Obama's re-election bid.  Producers preparing a film about the bin Laden raid were given "unprecedented access" to military and civilian officials, raising fears that sensitive operational details might be divulged, jeopardizing the success of future missions.  The administration's decision infuriated members of the Naval Special Warfare community, and rightfully so.  For obvious reasons, the SEALs prefer to operate in the shadows and they don't want politicians offering up information that might get them killed. 

And just this week, Senate Democrats--you read that right--Democrats--expressed concern about national security leaks regarding a recent, reported cyber attack against Iran's nuclear facilities.  From The Hill: .

The Democratic chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday expressed worry that leaks to the press about a cyberattack authorized by the Obama administration on Iran could lead to a counterattack on the United States.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) joined other senior Senate Democrats in expressing serious concerns about the leak, which detailed a cyberattack intended to hamper Iran's nuclear program. Some Republicans argue the information was leaked to help President Obama's reelection campaign.

[snip]

Several Democrats noted the Iranian leak is just the latest in a series of media reports about classified U.S. anti-terrorism activity.
“A number of those leaks, and others in the last months about drone activities and other activities are frankly all against national security interests,” said Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. “I think they’re dangerous, damaging, and whoever is doing that is not acting in the interest of the United States of America.”

If Mr. Kerry wants to find the culprits, he should look towards the White House.  The same administration that has punished a number of lower-level "leakers" is quite happy to spill state secrets--if it advances the political cause.  Unfortunately, that's the way the game is played in Washington.  All administrations leak; only some are a bit more feckless than others.        .                  . 

posted by Spook86 at  6:44 PM  | 0 Comments

 

[GAP]

North Korea military head Ri Yong-ho 'relieved of post'
16 July 2012
Article Link

North Korean military chief Ri Yong-ho has been removed from all official posts, according to state media.

As well as being head of the army, he was vice-chairman of the powerful Central Military Commission and held top posts in the ruling Workers' Party.

In a short statement, the party said Mr Ri had been removed from his posts "because of illness".

The BBC's Seoul correspondent Lucy Williamson says there is widespread scepticism about that explanation.

The decision to relieve Mr Ri of his duties came at a meeting of the Workers' Party Central Committee politburo on Sunday, state-run news agency KCNA said.

The brief report made no mention of a successor.

In Seoul, a spokesman for the Unification Ministry told reporters that the move was "very unusual".

"It's quite a rare case that the North promptly and publicly announced early this morning the outcome of a meeting yesterday, on 15 July. We will keep monitoring closely," Kim Hyung-suk said.

Mr Ri was made army chief three years ago under Kim Jong-il, the current leader's father who died in December 2011 after ruling North Korea for almost two decades.

The army chief regularly appeared at state occasions beside Kim Jong-il.

He was also one of seven top officials to accompany the younger Kim as he followed the hearse containing his father's body at his state funeral.

Mr Ri was widely thought to be a figure in the inner circle of the new leader and instrumental in helping him cement his position.

His removal is now being scrutinised by analysts for signs of the direction in which Kim Jong-un, seen as young and inexperienced, will take the country.

The army and Workers' Party are the two primary institutions that bolstered the Kim family dynasty, Robert Kelly, a professor at the Pusan National University in South Korea told the BBC
More on link

 

[The Bread Guy]

Six professors of leading North Korean universities are staying in Vancouver to study capitalism at a Canadian university on a six-month program, the program director said Friday, drawing fresh attention to the North's possible transition under its Swiss-educated young leader.

The economics professors from three North Korean universities arrived in Canada earlier this month to take courses at the University of British Columbia (UBC) in the fall semester, which begins in September, after a two-month language course, Professor Park Kyung-ae, director of the Center for Korean Research, said.

"They will mainly study international business, economics, finance and trade," Park told Yonhap News by phone, without giving further details of their identifications.

The elite universities include Kim Il-sung University, the top university named after the country's founding leader, the People's Economics University and the Pyongyang Foreign Language College, Park said. All the institutions are located in the North's capital, Pyongyang.

They are the second group of visiting professors to take the courses under the Canada-DPRK Knowledge Partnership Program, which Park helped launch at UBC last year. DPRK stands for North Korea's official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

A group of six professors, five from Kim Il-sung University, attended the program in the fall semester last year, which included meetings with CEOs of Canadian law firms, banks, insurance companies and energy firms.

"There was no such long-term program related to North Korea in the past," said Park, who visited the communist state last month. "The professors who completed last year's course did their best and had good relations with other professors and faculty members. As they successfully finished the course, we were able to continue the program this year as well."

The rare exchange program, which started under late leader Kim Jong-il, recently attracted new media attention in light of the military reshuffle by his successor Kim Jong-un, who inherited a crumbled economy after decades of Stalinist management, and a starving population dependent on foreign food aid ....

The Korea Times, 20 Jul 12

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Now that is weird.  Would it not make more sense for them to go study capitalism in Seoul or Pusan, so you don't need to learn the lingo?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I would think that might prove to be politically unpalatable to the Regime in the North.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

North Korea military head Ri Yong-ho 'relieved of post'
16 July 2012
Article Link

North Korean military chief Ri Yong-ho has been removed from all official posts, according to state media.

As well as being head of the army, he was vice-chairman of the powerful Central Military Commission and held top posts in the ruling Workers' Party.

In a short statement, the party said Mr Ri had been removed from his posts "because of illness".

The BBC's Seoul correspondent Lucy Williamson says there is widespread scepticism about that explanation.

The decision to relieve Mr Ri of his duties came at a meeting of the Workers' Party Central Committee politburo on Sunday, state-run news agency KCNA said.

The brief report made no mention of a successor.

In Seoul, a spokesman for the Unification Ministry told reporters that the move was "very unusual".

"It's quite a rare case that the North promptly and publicly announced early this morning the outcome of a meeting yesterday, on 15 July. We will keep monitoring closely," Kim Hyung-suk said.

Mr Ri was made army chief three years ago under Kim Jong-il, the current leader's father who died in December 2011 after ruling North Korea for almost two decades.

The army chief regularly appeared at state occasions beside Kim Jong-il.

He was also one of seven top officials to accompany the younger Kim as he followed the hearse containing his father's body at his state funeral.

Mr Ri was widely thought to be a figure in the inner circle of the new leader and instrumental in helping him cement his position.

His removal is now being scrutinised by analysts for signs of the direction in which Kim Jong-un, seen as young and inexperienced, will take the country.

The army and Workers' Party are the two primary institutions that bolstered the Kim family dynasty, Robert Kelly, a professor at the Pusan National University in South Korea told the BBC
More on link

Rumours are out about him dying in a shoot out between his bodyguards and the arresting parties.

 

[GAP]

So...........no pension?

 

[a_majoor]

There is an underground railroad moving small numbers of people out of the DPRK. A book has been written about this: Escape from North Korea: The Untold Story of Asia's Underground Railroad

From the world’s most repressive state comes rare good news: the escape to freedom of a small number of its people. It is a crime to leave North Korea. Yet increasing numbers of North Koreans dare to flee. They go first to neighboring China, which rejects them as criminals, then on to Southeast Asia or Mongolia, and finally to South Korea, the United States, and other free countries. They travel along a secret route known as the new underground railroad.

With a journalist’s grasp of events and a novelist’s ear for narrative, Melanie Kirkpatrick tells the story of the North Koreans’ quest for liberty. Travelers on the new underground railroad include women bound to Chinese men who purchased them as brides, defectors carrying state secrets, and POWs from the Korean War held captive in the North for more than half a century. Their conductors are brokers who are in it for the money as well as Christians who are in it to serve God. The Christians see their mission as the liberation of North Korea one person at a time.

 

[tomahawk6]

A NORK soldier/border guard escaped into the ROK today. He claimed to have killed his platoon leader and company commander. He was part of a small group,3 of whom were killed in the attempt. Hope the soldier didnt have any living family members or else they are in the gulag. Other members of his unit are probably in for a tough time from state security. Starving people will take risks that they might otherwise not take.

 

[Robert0288]

From what I read the army usually gets priority on food.  If they're going south, might be indicative of a larger growing problem?

 

[tomahawk6]

North Korean Army units spend quite a bit of time planting and harvesting crops to get them through the winter. If there isnt enough rain they have big problems.

 

[GAP]

North Korean Army units spend quite a bit of time planting and harvesting crops to get them through the winter. If there isnt enough rain they have big problems.

As noted through the large number of US Aid burlap sacks in the back of the compound....

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'd send him back to North Korea to stand trial for murder.

 

[tomahawk6]

The red's would love that. No more defections. The PRC already send refugee/defectors back knowing that they and their families will be executed. These arent nice people.