New Rucksack

[Fusaki]

Quag,

I'll dig up a post of mine from page 17 of this thread.  Maybe you'd be willing to shed some light on this issue since none of the other rucksack apologists have been willing to:

Then maybe you can clarify this for me:

- The Rucksack Instructing Cadre told myself and the rest of the class that the concave waist belt is designed to fit around the Iliac Crest.

- According to the information pamphlet distributed with the Ballistic Vest, it is cut so that the bottom edge of the vest will be level with the Iliac Crest.

What we have here is an overlap between the bottom couple inches of Frag Vest and the top couple inches of waist belt.  What results is the frag vest pushing the waist belt lower then designed, causing severe chafing. Eventually, the troops just say "frig it" and undo the waist belt altogether.

So I ask you this:  Did the Ballistic Vest guys frig up by cutting the vest too low, or did the rucksack guys frig up by cutting the waist belt too high?

You stated yourself that the ruck was designed to work with the ballistic vest.  Given the above, I don't see how that's possible.

 

[Jammer]

I was able to get both parts of the sleeping bag incl my biv bag AND the cadpat ranger blankie in the compression pack and carry it in the lower compartment with no worries

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I was able to get both parts of the sleeping bag incl my biv bag AND the cadpat ranger blankie in the compression pack and carry it in the lower compartment with no worries

OMG!!! Are you trying to get the New Ruck SMEs to come charging out of their office and string you up with multi coloured laces from the new CADPAT boots. My God man, what the hell are you thinking??

 

[Quag]

Quag,

I'll dig up a post of mine from page 17 of this thread.  Maybe you'd be willing to shed some light on this issue since none of the other rucksack apologists have been willing to:

You stated yourself that the ruck was designed to work with the ballistic vest.  Given the above, I don't see how that's possible.

Hey Wonderbread,

First off as I stated before, I am by no means a SME on the new ruck.  I think reservists take a week long course in Ottawa to teach how to set it up ;D

Anyway, I think it comes down to a compatibility issue.  Either your body works with it, or it doesn't.  Personally, I have a long torso so my hip belt sits fine with my frag with plates and tac.  For shorter people it may not.

Regardless, the ruck works perfectly well without the hip belt despite what many people say (not to sound like a know it all, but I did the Ironman with the new ruck.  I did about 80% of it without the waist belt).  The waist belt def improves the performance, but not when you are just breaking in the ruck and doing 50 odd kilometres with it sawing at your hip.

To answer your question, I can say that for the majority of my guys, the new ruck works good completely kitted out (tac, frag with plates).  There are odds and sods that it doesnt work, but it is IMO that they need to simply adjust and play around a little more.  While its no computer, it is light years ahead of the 82 pattern in technology.

Just my 2 cents again.  Game on!

 

[Fusaki]

To answer your question, I can say that for the majority of my guys, the new ruck works good completely kitted out (tac, frag with plates).  There are odds and sods that it doesnt work, but it is IMO that they need to simply adjust and play around a little more.

My experience is the opposite.

In the fall the 1st Battalion did a bug out then a march around the CO's route. Rucksacks with IRU kitlist, full PPE, FFO and 8km in about 1 hour 15mins. The distance and weight wasn't huge, but pace was quick for a Battalion's worth of guys. I think by the end of it most of us were chafing, some of whom were bleeding through their combat shirts.

This bugout march wasn't an Ironman by any means, but then again an Ironman isn't a tactical movement anyways.  The Ironman is a grueling race and I'm not trying to make light of it. I'm just pointing out that it's not done in full gear with a combat load.

I'd say a better reflection is how guys on the Recce Course like it.  From what I've been told, they don't like it very much.  Chafing and bandaged hips seem to be commonplace. I know that sounds like par for the course, but guys expected more from the new ruck.

A couple weeks ago the Rifle Coys of 1RCR did BFTs - without body armour.  I'm willing to bet that if I were to walk around the company areas today and ask random guys, most would prefer their old 82 pattern rucks back.

I'll admit it's all anecdotal evidence, but in my mind your previous post is downplaying the dissatisfaction of the end user.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I was able to get both parts of the sleeping bag incl my biv bag AND the cadpat ranger blankie in the compression pack and carry it in the lower compartment with no worries

Oh yeah?!!?! Well I fit a small Afghani child in mine, along with a weeks worth of Afghan bread and still had room to fit my clothes, a barrack box and a spare tire for my Coyote!! SO there!

/ends pissing contest

BTW, I don't have the new ruck but have seen one!!

 

[Quag]

Like I said, I never claimed to be a SME.  I was merely trying to discourage said individuals from slandering the ruck until they actually gave it a good whirl.

Regardless, I am sorry that new ruck is getting such bad reviews from an operational Regiment.

I will admit that the waist belt needs some serious work.  I have permanent scars on my hips from it.  During the Ironman I actually rubbed the skin to the bone.

Maybe we should start analyzing the actual parts of the new ruck that need improvement rather than toss out the whole thing. 

I would first suggest a new waist belt.  Any takers?

 

[Fusaki]

I would first suggest a new waist belt.  Any takers?

Funny you should mention that...

I actually did switch out my waist belt. I'm currently using a Kifaru Omnibelt:
http://www.kifaru.net/G2_omnibelts.html

The Kifaru belt actually integrates pretty well with the ruck. Kifaru's patented Delta Strap system fits almost perfectly in place of the load bearing straps found on the issued belt.

The belt attaches to the frame the same way in each ruck, the only difference being the velcro where it's hook on one ruck and loop on the other. This is easily overcome with a quick trip to the MATechs, who have on hand hook velcro tape. Just take a few pieces and fold them in half so the sticky sides are together, essentially making a doublesided sheet of hook velcro. Just place this in between the loop velcro of the ruck and the loop velcro of the Kifaru belt and and you're set.

People jealous of my waist belt.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Like I said, I never claimed to be a SME.  I was merely trying to discourage said individuals from slandering the ruck until they actually gave it a good whirl.

Regardless, I am sorry that new ruck is getting such bad reviews from an operational Regiment.

I will admit that the waist belt needs some serious work.  I have permanent scars on my hips from it.  During the Ironman I actually rubbed the skin to the bone.

Maybe we should start analyzing the actual parts of the new ruck that need improvement rather than toss out the whole thing. 

I would first suggest a new waist belt.  Any takers?

Over 22 pages, there are a large number of people that have used it. You are in a very small minority of somewhat satisfied users.

You almost sound like the only guy in the unit with one and are trying to sell it to everyone else. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it doesn't necessarily make you right either. There is two sides to every coin, and sooner or later, everyone will likely be forced into this ruck, like it or not. You can then look back at this as vindication.............or everyone will tell you otherwise.

I guess I'm trying to say, don't be so fanatical about it, it will be accepted or it won't be. You are starting to sound like some sort of specialized PT program freakizoid. Next thing you'll be giving girls names to the various parts of your ruck ;D

 

[Quag]

Over 22 pages, there are a large number of people that have used it. You are in a very small minority of somewhat satisfied users.

...On this forum.  I have never once made a blanket statement.  Everything was in my opinion.

You almost sound like the only guy in the unit with one and are trying to sell it to everyone else. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it doesn't necessarily make you right either.

As a matter of fact I am far from the only person to have it (everyone in my unit has it...).  I'm not sure where I came off as that loser that tries to say "hey look at me I have all the new gucci kit!"  It was not my intention if it came across that way, I was just trying to offer advice for said individuals to give it a try before tossing it into the mist.

There is two sides to every coin, and sooner or later, everyone will likely be forced into this ruck, like it or not. You can then look back at this as vindication.............or everyone will tell you otherwise.

This is exactly what I am trying to get at.  I stand to be corrected, but every Regular Force Operational Combat Arms Regiment has it issued.  And RSM's are starting to enforce that it be worn solely.  So...let's stir up productive conversations like Wonderbread and I are having that work to identify and offer solutions to the problems.  As we all know, when it comes to the CF, if you have a problem you better damn well have a solution.

I guess I'm trying to say, don't be so fanatical about it, it will be accepted or it won't be. You are starting to sound like some sort of specialized PT program freakizoid. Next thing you'll be giving girls names to the various parts of your ruck ;D

So in other words, I shouldn't share my positive experiences with it?!?!  I never tried to force it on anyone, I was merely trying to get those that say "if it doesn't have an external frame I'm not interested", or "I saw it and it looked like junk", to actually give it a trial and work with it.  A lot of people that did initially detest the ruck began to like it after they trialled different setups, adjustments and configurations.

I don't mean to come off as a d**k, but I think some of your comments are uncalled for and not productive to this discussion on the ruck.

Cheers

 

[MJP]

I don't mean to come off as a d**k, but I think some of your comments are uncalled for and not productive to this discussion on the ruck.

Cheers

Aye I agree, I am quite enjoying the different points of view and end user solutions to the whole rucksack debacle with out useless interjections from people with nothing to add.

I certainly hope that people are using the UCR system to record and give feedback on the kit.  Talking to the fielding guys or DLR is next to useless.  UCRs or a great number of them is what will help make the changes needed if they are required.  If you don't know the UCR system take a gander here for the process http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33365/post-708018.html#msg708018

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Quaq,

I suppose I was trying to have some fun.........you think at your expense. Perhaps. No harm was meant. You are reading way more into my comments than intended. Your original profile had you as a 2/Lt with an IP address not in Pet. Today(?) it changed, though the location remains the same. Maybe congrats are in order. At any rate, please carry on and forgive an old soldier for trying to inject a bit of humour and trying to take the fanatical edge off a subject that seems to be getting carried away. I just can't get that excited about a bag.

HAGO

 

[Quag]

Sorry recceguy, its been a long day haha...  let the charge begin...again!

PM inbound

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Just to get back on track, with the comments people have made about the waistbelt, the one thing I suppose they HAVE gotten right is that the ruck is modular, by that I mean should they design a better/non-chafing/tacvest suitable waistbelt, it will hopefully only involve removing the offending article and replacing with the new upgraded one, rather than having to re-design the entire bag all over again. Same with shoulder straps and side pouches. I still personally think it is over-complicated, but I personally am happy with it compared to the 82, and am willing to stand-by that.

 

[PuckChaser]

I think Wonderbread is on-line for a great idea here, and probably a relatively cheap fix for the ruck, as its seems the main issue with the ruck is due to the waist belt. I've yet to try one, still waiting for either a tour, or whenever Kingston gets its issue, but a $40 reversible mod that makes the ruck compatible with the frag vest is an excellent idea. Maybe a few UCRs with this mod listed as a solution could be sent up the chain.

 

[KevinB]

How does that not make sense?  This is a "compression sack" unlike your old "sleeping bag CARRIER".  There is plenty of room in the compression sack compartment on the ruckfor your bivy bag and ground sheet.

For what its worth, I fit my bivy bag just fine in the compression sack, just make sure you have the opening at the top so the air can escape (but that was common knowledge already, right?).

Just a point -- If your bivy bag is not around your sleeping back - whatever happens when your ruck gets soaked or submerged? 
  Of course I think the CF sleeping bag is an excellent artic sleeping bag, just not very good for temperate, or warmer weather - but thants another story.

Anyone who expects you to physically seperately carry your bivy bag from the sdleeping bag is a little out of touch.  So I get to my hooch, and I take the bag out, take the bivy bag out, place the sleeping bag, inside the bivy bag...  :

 

[Quag]

Just a point -- If your bivy bag is not around your sleeping back - whatever happens when your ruck gets soaked or submerged? 
  Of course I think the CF sleeping bag is an excellent artic sleeping bag, just not very good for temperate, or warmer weather - but thants another story.

Anyone who expects you to physically seperately carry your bivy bag from the sdleeping bag is a little out of touch.  So I get to my hooch, and I take the bag out, take the bivy bag out, place the sleeping bag, inside the bivy bag...  :

The compression sack is waterproof.  I did test it in my bathtub (hey, it does the job!) and it works excellent, providing you roll the tabs properly.  Add to that the extra protection afforded by the compartment in the ruck and you have a good waterproof seal.

But as I mentioned, I pack my bag in the bivy and all fits well in the compression sack.  Initially I was concerned about the strength of the compression straps and buckles, but I've used and abused them and they have held up without incident.

I think we have a viable solution with an easy replacement of the strap and belt.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Just a point -- If your bivy bag is not around your sleeping back - whatever happens when your ruck gets soaked or submerged? 
  Of course I think the CF sleeping bag is an excellent artic sleeping bag, just not very good for temperate, or warmer weather - but thants another story.

Anyone who expects you to physically seperately carry your bivy bag from the sdleeping bag is a little out of touch.  So I get to my hooch, and I take the bag out, take the bivy bag out, place the sleeping bag, inside the bivy bag...  :

You'd be suprised how many people do NOT put the sleeping bag in the bivvy bag!!  Heck I still see people using bright orange garbage bags!

 

[KevinB]

Quag - thanks for that tidbit.
  I still want to know why the intended "spec" is not to pack them together - as I don't think anyone thinks its a practical idea to put to gether and seperate items in the field in a low light/low noise situtation.

Buzz - I had a extremely tactical Blue dry bag as my valice on my '64 -- I tried to explain to the CSM that B Coy was blue, and it was simply a large company locator...  ;D

 

[Bzzliteyr]

S**t disturber...