New PT Test Requirements...Thoughts?

[LeonTheNeon]

I had my interview today.  It makes absolutely no difference when you started your application. The new policy for the PT test applies to everybody whose basic training starts after 1 Oct 2006.  If you've already passed a pre-enrollment PT test, you will still have to do the PT test in basic training.

I was told at the end of the interview that absolutely 100% regardless of when you applied the pre-enrollment PT test is no longer being done.  You will, regardless of when you applied, have to pass the CF Express test in the first few days of basic training.  If you do not you will be put in a Warrior platoon for PT training.  You will be tested at the 30 day mark, if you fail you may be given an additional 30 days, if you fail again you may be given an additional 30 days.  If you fail again, you are likely to be released.

 

[commanderstan]

My mother heard from a friend with Military connections a few weeks ago that the CFs were fast tracking recruits. Is that what the elimination of the Physical Test in the Application does: gets you into Basic training faster?

 

[LeonTheNeon]

This is just my opinion, based on my observations of the recruiting process and based on what I've read of the slowness in the recruiting process.

I don't see it making things much faster and I don't think it is the reason for eliminating it.  I don't think the PT test was a major cause of a slowdown for most applicants, unless they failed the test, in which case there still will be no real savings in "time to them being a contributing member" since they'll be on the Warrior platoon for 30 to 90 days. 

My wild-a**ed guess is that the thinking is along the lines of since prior to 1 Oct 2006 you did the CF Express in basic anyway (week 2 or 3?), they probably figured why not just do the CF Express earlier in basic and eliminate the redundancy of doing it pre-enrollment and absorb the cost of getting the failure physically fit.

Also in the realm of speculation, I'm thinking that the powers that be believe that they can get the majority of recruits in shape to pass basic since they'll be a captive audience for up to 90 days.  They also likely believe that the cost of doing this is acceptable in order to assist in reaching the recruiting goals.  On the flip side, they may have the perspective that in old method those that failed the pre-enrollment PT test may have dropped their application completely and hence were lost to the CF as members.

 

[orange.paint]

On the flip side, they may have the perspective that in old method those that failed the pre-enrollment PT test may have dropped their application completely and hence were lost to the CF as members.

Good.Do you really want people in the army that cannot meet the requirements right off the start?Do you really want people who fail?People who fail then decide to not put in the effort to pass?

2421=30 days Private 1 pay

1328=30 day officer cadet pay


Lieutenant A 4147 =30days
Warrant Officer 6B  Basic 5208 =30days
Sergeant 6A  Basic 4675 =30 days
Sergeant 6A  Basic 4675 =30 days
MasterCorporal  5B  Basic 4239 =30 days
MasterCorporal  5B  Basic 4239 =30 days
Corporal  5A  Basic 4069 (admin NCO)=30 days
Corporal  5A  Basic 4069 (ration NCO)=30 days

If 15 troops are on this "warrior"platoon.IE too lazy/fat to be in the army their pay per month totaled with a small cadre would cost.


98,313 $$ per 30 days NOT INCLUDING RATIONS.NOT INCLUDING PSP STAFF,NOT INCLUDING ACCOMIDATIONS.

If the fat and lazy platoon retains 15 students year round it would cost in excess of:
1,179,756$.

Where as if the person works out and meets the pathetic low standard it cost the army

0$

Also something to discuss would be where they are such a risk to themselves being weak they run a higher risk of injury.If a cf member hurt themselves they cannot be release till they are fixed.So how many pers will be putting in for pentions from banged up knees because "the army made me run when I was too fat to do it."

I'm far from a bean counter/risk analysis guy but how does this make sense.

Like one of my peers said today "we need numbers and we will kick ourselves in the ass in 10 years time."Its too hard to kick out fat and lazy,now its too easy for them to get in.

 

[LeonTheNeon]

Good.Do you really want people in the army that cannot meet the requirements right off the start?Do you really want people who fail?People who fail then decide to not put in the effort to pass?

You will note, nowhere in my post did I say "I have this perspective".  I am only conjecturing on what the thinking likely is, and only suppose that whoever is the head bean counter has determined that it is an acceptable cost.  Whether they are right or not, is beyond the reach of my vision since I don't have nearly enough data to make that detailed of an analysis.

If you want my own personal opinion, based on limited data, I don't like it.  I think there should be a price of admission to being in the Canadian Forces, and you shouldn't be coddled and taken by the hand on the path to being a soldier.  If somebody cannot find it in themselves to be able to meet the bare minimum before basic training, I just really question if they have the strength of character to be an effective soldier.  To those that say, "but I can do everything else I just find pushups/situps/running hard"... sorry about your luck.  I highly doubt barring some physical handicap, which I should note would bar you from entering the CF anyway on medical grounds, that there is ANYBODY who cannot meet the bare minimum.  My buddies who are not in prime condition, and are not applying to be in the CF but are working out with me for morale support have managed to reach the minimum in 9 weeks!  It really isn't that hard, and is not an unreasonable expectation pre-enrollment.

 

[moclyke]

I do not believe it is fair to call it the "fat and lazy platoon". The armed forces is not devaluing their enlisted personnel, they are simply broadening the amount of people to get in. If the best person for the job happens to be a slow runner, shouldn't the money be used to benefit the military instead of getting someone who doesn't know what they are doing but happens to be able to do 20 push-ups?

 

[govenor_mac]

Boy......for a "fat and lazy" platoon...they sure beat the odds and got awarded 'Best drill in Canada'.... eh?

 

[aesop081]

Boy......for a "fat and lazy" platoon...they sure beat the odds and got awarded 'Best drill in Canada'.... eh?

Oh give it a rest....so they can do drill....big f'ing deal. Even a 300 lbs, out of shape individual can do drill when his paycheck depends on it.  meanwhile the rest of the  military has a war going on.

Somebody way higher than me has determined that this was the way to go, i dont agree but i'll work with it.  The standards were rediculously low to begin with, how young canadians cannot meet them is sad.  Now we are going to have more sick, lame and lazy on our hands.  Good thing that we can get rid of them after 90 days !!  That is IF we are allowed to get rid of them.  My past experience with PAT says its not going to be so easy.

 

[orange.paint]

I do not believe it is fair to call it the "fat and lazy platoon". The armed forces is not devaluing their enlisted personnel, they are simply broadening the amount of people to get in. If the best person for the job happens to be a slow runner, shouldn't the money be used to benefit the military instead of getting someone who doesn't know what they are doing but happens to be able to do 20 push-ups?

What do you suggest we call them?Something like warrior to cover up the fact that they cannot do the job?When your working cement work and some laborer cannot lift a wheelbarrow what do you do as a foreman?Keep them on salary and slowly work them into the job?NO! You fire their asses and get another person who can do the job.As for the "shouldn't the money be used to benefit the military instead of getting someone who doesn't know what they are doing but happens to be able to do 20 push-ups?" Here's a freaking idea, soldiers can meet the requirements and know their job.Amazing isn't it!Your profile lacks any info so I'm guessing your a warrior platoon hopeful or have fat family trying to get in.My son is learning how to crawl right now and I swear he can do more than 20 push ups at 6 months old.(he keeps flopping in on his belly,not too steady but cute).

Boy......for a "fat and lazy" platoon...they sure beat the odds and got awarded 'Best drill in Canada'.... eh?

No they didn't beat any odds.They are the losers in the game called life.While others were doing trades training and deploying to war these people where sitting in Borden without a job BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT FIT FOR SERVICE!I know your a mother of one of the failures,and proud of your son that's fine.But don't try to use smoke and mirrors to cover up the basic fact that he failed.We know the system and some of us work in it everyday.

2421 dollars every thirty days....hey here's an idea lets use the money to improve another fitness topic here,the reserve units!Imagine how much equipment you could buy with that!Or class A days that could pay for.But no they rather waste it on sacko's who cant do their jobs.

 

[aesop081]

No they didn't beat any odds.They are the losers in the game called life.While others were doing trades training and deploying to war these people where sitting in Borden without a job BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT FIT FOR SERVICE!I know your a mother of one of the failures,and proud of your son that's fine.But don't try to use smoke and mirrors to cover up the basic fact that he failed.We know the system and some of us work in it everyday.

In all fairness, not everyone on PAT is there because they are useless....some are just there because their trades course has yet to start or some have legitimate injuries and cant wait to get back to training.

 

[moclyke]

I'm sorry, I was too vague in my last comment. I'm sorry these "fat and lazy" people want to serve their country. Let's kick them all out. But wait, the Armed Forces needs like 3,000 more recruits and the "thin and energetic" people aren't applying.

When I was in the recruiting office I was explained the "points system". Every occupation in the army has a number of points depending on how competitive they are. A mechanical technician for example is 4. If i applied for this position I would not be considered competitive considering I have no experience with mechanics. I would rank as a 1 or 2. However if a mechanic who has worked in the field for 10 years applied for this position he  would rank as a 4 or 5. What I was suggesting earlier was that if the Army was in dire need of mechanics, and the certain people who applied didnt happen to meet the Physical standard, maybe in the long run it would benefit the Armed Forces to hire that person and help him meet the fitness requirements.

Since I haven't filled out my profile I will inform you on my status. I just finished the application process and although I am READY to take the PT test, I have been told it will be on the second day of BMQ. I don't disagree with the "warrior platoon" although I wouldn't want to be in it. I am in pretty good shape already and I know BMQ training will put me in even better condition so in the end, what's the difference? I can see how people would be offended, the Armed Forces are supposed to be an elite form of people. The best of the best. But if we need more personnel and the "best of the best" aren't applying, where are we going to draw them from?

That's just my thought, I don't like people jumping to any assumptions. By the way, I do NOT come from a fat family!!!  

 

[dardt]

Regarding the new PT Test Requirements - Does anyone know what will happen if you are granted a recruit school bypass on enrollment ? Will you be tested on your QL3 ?

 

[orange.paint]

Your express test is valid for a year if your coming in from the reserve.So Bring a copy with you if you don't care to do it again.

This sort of stuff is part of the reason we are losing people.They are getting sick and tired of the retardation this army does sometimes.

Anyway back to serious discussion.I'm wondering the full out plan for this "FALP"(fat and lazy platoon)I'm guessing they would still keep PAT platoon for the fit guys who just had a bit of bad luck and broke a leg etc.I wonder what kind of training they would be doing during the day and what restrictions if any are placed on them in the mess hall.Personally if I seen pte warrior eating fries and a cheese burger I would have to say something.


Maybe truth duty valour should cover it.I'm kidding.

 

[blacktriangle]

I personally think that lack of PT test will just open the door to  winners that can't run 1.5 km without puking, but want to be commando's anyway. I was in pretty crappy shape 6 months ago, but I worked at it because it's what I wanted. Don't apply until you can do the minimum, and hopefully more. Not everyone is an athlete, but almost everyone should past that test.

The PT test was at one point the only thing holding back several of these out of shape types I know. I sure hope that those awaiting trades training will not be lumped into the same platoons as those doing remedial PT testing, that won't be very good for morale...  

 

[keaner]

Situps and pushups are part of the EXRPES test.  Not seperate from...

I stand corrected...situps, pushups and step test...that's all that's required to get in.

Personally, I'd be too f'n embarrassed to try to join the military and not be fit enough to pass a basic fitness test.

I can only think that the ones who are truly worried about the how/when/why of the new admission standards are the ones who should be...i.e. they are too out of shape to pass the test.

Look at it this way...if you are really worried then get running, in no time it will cease to be an issue.

 

[moclyke]

Personally, I'd be too f'n embarrassed to try to join the military and not be fit enough to pass a basic fitness test.

I agree. Basic will weed out whoever doesn't belong there anyway. Anyone who graduates BMQ training I think deserves to be there.

 

[Munner]

I hardly think passing BMQ reflects whether or not a soldier should be in the CF.

 

[moclyke]

I hardly think passing BMQ reflects whether or not a soldier should be in the CF.

i think if you have the opputunitry to quit for some twelve weeks, it determines those who really want it versus people who decide not to hack it. What else should decide it? Why are we all so picky on who should defend our country? To keep peace in other countries? Why are we so picky?

 

[kincanucks]

I hardly think passing BMQ reflects whether or not a soldier should be in the CF.

Maybe not on your BMQ.  BMQ is the indoctrination of suitable persons into the CF and if one passes a BMQ they certainly do belong in the CF and deserve to be given the opportunity to further develop their skills through further training.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

In all fairness, not everyone on PAT is there because they are useless....some are just there because their trades course has yet to start or some have legitimate injuries and cant wait to get back to training.

Good point.  RCAC_011, I know you have some strong opinions on this point, BUT not all the troops in PRETC are there because they are Sick Lame and Lazy.

I have a bang on MCpl that is CTing and has to head there next month...

Sorry, had to slide that little point along to support CdnAviator...