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New MBT(Leo 2, M1A2, or Challenger 2), new light tank (Stingray), or new DFSV (M8 or MGS)?

ArmyRick said:
I just thought of a wacky idea. What about a troop of LEO 2 or LEO 1 at each area trg center. You assign a small cadre of maintainers and instructors and for reservist you simply run continious tank driver and gunner courses throughout the year. Keeping a small, small fleet of tanks centralized (minimize deployment cost or flatbedding them) would be cheaper and it would give the armoured reserves a base level of skills in ACTUAL armoured warfare.

Now guys that deploy in Tank crews would have to get a refresher on tanks but at least they would have the base skills.

That was done and it failed miserably.

Tanks broke down at an even faster rate and the "cadre" who had to go and maintain them, from another area, didn't have any pride of ownership at all.

The way I see it, Tanks fight tanks the best and should be crewed by 011s. The CF has limited capabilities and its in our best interest to stick with MBT. BUT if we ever did get MGS (Look out maybe Liberals will change everything if they ever win another election, yikes!) then maybe assigning them as organic DFS fire power to LAVIII equipped companies would be the way to go. If grunts can leanr and handle LAVIII gunnery, I am sure they would handle MGS gunnery too.

Leo2 deal is done. MGS is dead.

There are ideas that have been, or possibly still are, to have 011 crew all LAV turrets so all 031 can concentrate on closing with and destroying the enemy.

Army Rick...pm inbound.

Regards
 
120mm Ammunition


M829A1 APFSDS-T
M830A1 HEAT
M831A1 TP-T
M865    TPCSDS-T
XM943  STAFF
XM1007 ERM/TERM - Tank Extended Range Munition
X-ROD
Advanced Tungsten KE Cartridge
 
Since the subject of the Cougar has come up, let me offer what I recall after having watched the program bloom from the sidelines. First, by 1970 the plan was to get out of the tank business completely. In Germany what was called 4th Canadian Mechanized Battle Group was first going to be airmobile as Centag reserve and then I think was going to be a reconnaissance force after somebody decided that the helicopters to lift the formation would be too expensive. A deal to purchase the British Scorpion with the 76mm turret cam very close to fruition, but foundered when the Brits would not licence Canada to manufacture the ammunition. So the Centurion survived in Europe and Gagetown on for a few years more.

However the rest of the corps was stuck between a rock and a hard place. What was the role - recce, light armour or what? When the plan to lease Leopards and then purchase others was developed, the RCAC realized it was still in the tank business. What to do as the government was dead against tanks in Canada? (A few years earlier PM Trudeau had stated that there was no place for tanks in Canada, for whatever reason and I suspect it was emotion, and not reason, that drove the decision, contrary to his family motto.)

And so the Cougar was born from a mutation of the Mowag chassis and the Scorpion turret. It was dubbed a tank trainer and some very exalted personages went on record saying that it would never be used operationally. The CDS was in the process of setting up the SSF at the time, but I don't know what was in his mind. What I do know is that ten years or so earlier the army had looked at 'armoured cars' for low intensity operations and he was commanding the "light brigade" at the time. So were these pronouncements  designed to keep the government happy or to keep the troops quiet or what? I got a very stern talking to for suggesting that the armoured corps would end up using the Cougars in an operation somewhere, because there would be nothing else available.

Circa 1978 the armoured school was told to be prepared to teach the Cougar as a recce vehicle. The CO caught a ton of crap for suggesting that a school bus would be equally useful, which proves that it is not only gunners who don't know when to keep their mouths shut.

And then came the RV exercises with the Cougars employed as tank trainers, and then the Balkans and Somalia. And the rest, as they say, is history.
 
George Wallace said:
120mm Ammunition


M829A1 APFSDS-T
M830A1 HEAT
M831A1 TP-T
M865    TPCSDS-T
XM943  STAFF
XM1007 ERM/TERM - Tank Extended Range Munition
X-ROD
Advanced Tungsten KE Cartridge

You missed one George.        ;)

Regards
 
im quite happy with the Leopards that are being used in afganistan. Even though they're only being leased to us i quite like the leopard family. But I do think we should get a couple hundred, maybe 400? But 100 is a good start :cdnsalute:
 
For someone who is a M/Cpl with the jump company is Pet...ooops now your a Cpl? What gives who are you....? Why don't you come clean because we doubt you are who you say you are.
 
i am a 22 year old over confident crpl who uses the internet to his advantage...i mean no disrespect to anyone who finds it to be, i just don't like posting imformation about myself...the only real thing is my age and now...my rank
 
So as an overconfident cpl where are we going to get the manpower to crew 400 Leopards? If anyone should know of the manpower shortages in the combat arms units its someone that is supposedly already in such a unit....
 
Its more of a statement than anything...this may sound stupid but we need to show that we are a force to be reconed with...i'm not saying send the tanks to battle, its more of a keep them in case...
 
You do know that the tanks we have in Afghanistan have been involved in combat operations right? As for your force to be reckoned with? Why? Are not the members of the Cf lauded by other nations already for their professionalism and training? Do we plan on embarking on a mission of conquest? Thats probably one of the dumbest things I have read in this forum this weekend! ::)
 
Just a personal opinion. Yes I do know that they are in afghanistan.  I just like Tanks...the more the better in my book, even if its politicly/financialy/logicly stupid...thats what i think. But I do thank you for what you're trying to say. And i do get im just a bit to gun happy
 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

And in case you forgot here are the Guidelines for you to look at again.
 
alright i get ur drift. My account will be true. Iwill speak of canada in the highest regards and make the CF proud
 
oorrah_pobieda, I would quit while your behind and just fess up....
 
- Short answer: No.

- Long answer: Even if they were in service right now across Canada, they could be mothballed at the stroke of a pen.  It would be a great way to fund our buy-out packages.
 
Colin P said:
Has the Leopard deal progressed enough to prevent the unholy Alliance from killing it?
Given that Mr Dion & the Liberals supported Canada's stay in Afghanistan (till 2011), it would certainly be bad politics to withhold essential equipment from the troops we/they sent into harms way.
 
geo said:
Given that Mr Dion & the Liberals supported Canada's stay in Afghanistan (till 2011), it would certainly be bad politics to withhold essential equipment from the troops we/they sent into harms way.

- Yeah, like cancelling the EH-101 and forcing us to keep the Sea Kings in the sky.  THAT sort of bad politics got them THREE majority gummints...
 
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