New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[JLB50]

I haven’t been to St. John N.B. in years. Is there still any capability to resurrect shipbuilding capabilities there to supplement what Irving is doing? I would think that they still have a skilled workforce.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Three points:

First, If you say St John, you need not specify N.B. The other one in NL is St John's .

Second, what Irving is doing in the old yard has nothing to do with shipbuilding at all.

Three, The skilled work force has been gone for a long time.

P.s., don't believe everything they say in Wikipedia: St John Shipbuilding was never the largest shipyard in Canada. Davie was, and still is.

 

[JLB50]

Three points:

First, If you say St John, you need not specify N.B. The other one in NL is St John's .

Second, what Irving is doing in the old yard has nothing to do with shipbuilding at all.

Three, The skilled work force has been gone for a long time.

P.s., don't believe everything they say in Wikipedia: St John Shipbuilding was never the largest shipyard in Canada. Davie was, and still is.

You’re right, I shouldn’t have added N.B. to it. Many, many moons ago I made that very same mistake and I got a polite but firm correction from Dalton Camp on the matter. As for shipyards it’s unfortunate that Irving is pretty much the only game in town (regionally speaking) on the east coast.

 

[Rainbow1910]

As for shipyards it’s unfortunate that Irving is pretty much the only game in town (regionally speaking) on the east coast.

Realistically this is the best case scenario given the National Shipbuilding Strategy, piecemealing ship production throughout a bunch of yards only serves to lessen efficiencies of scale and burn through the production run too quickly. See what happened with the Halifax class and the aftermath for the yards when work was done.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Although it would be beneficial were another class of ship be procured, ie CMMC.

 

[Stoker]

Realistically this is the best case scenario given the National Shipbuilding Strategy, piecemealing ship production throughout a bunch of yards only serves to lessen efficiencies of scale and burn through the production run too quickly. See what happened with the Halifax class and the aftermath for the yards when work was done.

Simple buy the land from Irving, spend ten billion establishing a top of the line modern shipyard and make it a nationally run strategic asset. Counts towards our 2% NATO goal and makes us more self reliant. Start building the Kingston Class replacement and anything else we need. We should be doing the same thing for ammunition.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Firstly, it's Saint John, not St. John.

Secondly, the former Shipyard site in Saint John has been converted in to a Wallboard Factory for JD Irving Ltd. The drydock is still there, otherwise the entirety of Irving Shipbuilding in Saint John is gone.



The conversion of the facility to a wallboard factory was another wonderful bit of East Coast grift:

Federal government gave millions to Irving subsidiary, records reveal | Globalnews.ca

Atlantic Wallboard LP received more than $40 million in funding between 2006 and 2012 that an expert says could have trade implications for the New Brunswick firm.

globalnews.ca

 

[Halifax Tar]

Firstly, it's Saint John, not St. John.

Secondly, the former Shipyard site in Saint John has been converted in to a Wallboard Factory for JD Irving Ltd. The drydock is still there, otherwise the entirety of Irving Shipbuilding in Saint John is gone.

View attachment 91289

The conversion of the facility to a wallboard factory was another wonderful bit of East Coast grift:

Federal government gave millions to Irving subsidiary, records reveal | Globalnews.ca

Atlantic Wallboard LP received more than $40 million in funding between 2006 and 2012 that an expert says could have trade implications for the New Brunswick firm.

globalnews.ca

lol Irving. God, I cant stand that company.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

lol Irving. God, I cant stand that company.

Don't hate the player, hate the game

 

[Halifax Tar]

Don't hate the player, hate the game

Cant I hate both ?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Realistically this is the best case scenario given the National Shipbuilding Strategy, piecemealing ship production throughout a bunch of yards only serves to lessen efficiencies of scale and burn through the production run too quickly. See what happened with the Halifax class and the aftermath for the yards when work was done.

Please tell me that you realise that there is a great need for an increase in throughput. Our current timelines are woefully wrong and will crush us in the end.

 

[captloadie]

Please tell me that you realise that there is a great need for an increase in throughput. Our current timelines are woefully wrong and will crush us in the end.

But do you realize that the intent is not to push ships through at a rapid pace, but to string the construction out as long as possible to keep the yards open, the skilled employees employed, and way to funnel federal funds through the regions? From the very beginning, this wasn't about building ships for the CAF or the CCG, it was about rebuilding and retaining a ship building capacity.

The down side is it will always be more expensive than foreign ship yards, which means there will never be international demand to build in our yards.

 

[Halifax Tar]

But do you realize that the intent is not to push ships through at a rapid pace, but to string the construction out as long as possible to keep the yards open, the skilled employees employed, and way to funnel federal funds through the regions? From the very beginning, this wasn't about building ships for the CAF or the CCG, it was about rebuilding and retaining a ship building capacity.

The down side is it will always be more expensive than foreign ship yards, which means there will never be international demand to build in our yards.

This was and is an employment plan. The fact we might get some ships out of it is happenstance.

 

[Czech_pivo]

But do you realize that the intent is not to push ships through at a rapid pace, but to string the construction out as long as possible to keep the yards open, the skilled employees employed, and way to funnel federal funds through the regions? From the very beginning, this wasn't about building ships for the CAF or the CCG, it was about rebuilding and retaining a ship building capacity.

The down side is it will always be more expensive than foreign ship yards, which means there will never be international demand to build in our yards.

But do you realise that the RCN will be down to the Oriole, and 6 AOPS by the time we have 3, maybe 4 Rivers commissioned?

Are you fine with that?

 

[Halifax Tar]

But do you realise that the RCN will be down to the Oriole, and 6 AOPS by the time we have 3, maybe 4 Rivers commissioned?

Are you fine with that?

I know you didn't address this to me... But nope I'm not fine with that.

I also know until we make the required fundamental changes to our major procurements process and system, and our mindset around these subjects, nothing is going to change.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

But do you realise that the RCN will be down to the Oriole, and 6 AOPS by the time we have 3, maybe 4 Rivers commissioned?

Are you fine with that?

The GoC don't care. Demilitarization suits the GoC's current worldview and politics. The US pull away from NATO means there is even less of a need to invest in a potent and capable Navy. Especially when you consider that a substantial portion of our defence policy revolves around "pleasing the Americans".

AOPS is like the peak post-nation state RCN dream vessel. It's not even a warship, it's a constabulary vessel.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The GoC don't care. Demilitarization suits the GoC's current worldview and politics. The US pull away from NATO means there is even less of a need to invest in a potent and capable Navy. Especially when you consider that a substantial portion of our defence policy revolves around "pleasing the Americans".

AOPS is like the peak post-nation state RCN dream vessel. It's not even a warship, it's a constabulary vessel.

God, I hate that you are so fucking right.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The GoC don't care. Demilitarization suits the GoC's current worldview and politics. The US pull away from NATO means there is even less of a need to invest in a potent and capable Navy. Especially when you consider that a substantial portion of our defence policy revolves around "pleasing the Americans".

AOPS is like the peak post-nation state RCN dream vessel. It's not even a warship, it's a constabulary vessel.

And that is why if we keep going down this path we will be Puerto Rico within 20yrs.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

God, I hate that you are so fucking right.

I personally hate how weak we have become. The Trump Administration has exposed some real fissures in the "True North, Strong & Free" narrative.

I'm a patriot and this shit makes me angry.

The entire RCN CONOP of the past 60+ years to provide a credible force for projection in to the North Atlantic to keep SLOC open, take on the Soviet/Russian submarine force, and slide in to NATO/American Strike Groups has been put through the shredder the past month.

We've now got the RCMP, with ERT embarked, flying Blackhawks across the largest undefended border in the World. I used to be able to use my driver's license to go across

Sadly, I don't think we have reached peak retardation yet...

And that is why if we keep going down this path we will be Puerto Rico within 20yrs.

We are already on the path. What sovereignty we have is being slowly eroded. I have mentioned before that there is a real danger that Canada will be absorbed by the United States this century. I have advanced my timeline from decades to years....

 

[Czech_pivo]

I personally hate how weak we have become. The Trump Administration has exposed some real fissures in the "True North, Strong & Free" narrative.

I'm a patriot and this shit makes me angry.

The entire RCN CONOP of the past 60+ years to provide a credible force for projection in to the North Atlantic to keep SLOC open, take on the Soviet/Russian submarine force, and slide in to NATO/American Strike Groups has been put through the shredder the past month.

We've now got the RCMP, with ERT embarked, flying Blackhawks across the largest undefended border in the World. I used to be able to use my driver's license to go across

Sadly, I don't think we have reached peak retardation yet...


We are already on the path. What sovereignty we have is being slowly eroded. I have mentioned before that there is a real danger that Canada will be absorbed by the United States this century. I have advanced my timeline from decades to years....

Having grown up in Windsor with half my family in Detroit, I fondly remember crossing the border with my drivers license and in a few cases, not even that if I had forget it at home and was the passenger.